All Blacks 2025
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
I’ve noticed that 85% of AB backline moves involve NOT passing to Proctor. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that on that basis he’s never going to be an attacking threat.
Hell, in that case they might as well reinstate Rieko and benefit from his superior defence!For real.
When you rewatch tests it's one of the first things you notice - I swear players actively avoid passing to him even if he is the best option. In Wellington v the Boks Jordan I think it was had the ball and he had Proctor outside him and then Carter outside him. He skipped Proctor (which was the easiest and correct pass) and instead passed it to Carter's ankles for a knock on.
Reminds me of anothher whinge, the use of skip passes when hands are the better option. Increasingly noticeable how often we do this, and how often the defender slides out to comfortably cover
@voodoo it was similar to pre-2023 when Smith was barely runnimg, he kicked, he passed, and was very easy to see what he was doing, so defence was able to respond accordingly, we looked far more dangerous when he bought back some running to his game.
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For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)
217 Beauden Barrett
210 Cortez Ratima
191 Finlay Christie
177 Cam Roigard
159 Ardie Savea
149 Damian Mckenzie
144 Jordie Barrett
128 Will Jordan
86 Fabian Holland
67 Billy Proctor@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)
217 Beauden Barrett
210 Cortez Ratima
191 Finlay Christie
177 Cam Roigard
159 Ardie Savea
149 Damian Mckenzie
144 Jordie Barrett
128 Will Jordan
86 Fabian Holland
67 Billy ProctorThose are encouraging stats in that 2 of the 3 top 3 most involved players are reserve halfbacks. If Roigard was clear #1 on that list the ABs may well have only one loss. Now, imagine if there was a 13 heavily involved in attack, same thing applies.
My overall point being, this team is not operating nesr it's ceiling.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)
217 Beauden Barrett
210 Cortez Ratima
191 Finlay Christie
177 Cam Roigard
159 Ardie Savea
149 Damian Mckenzie
144 Jordie Barrett
128 Will Jordan
86 Fabian Holland
67 Billy ProctorThose are encouraging stats in that 2 of the 3 top 3 most involved players are reserve halfbacks. If Roigard was clear #1 on that list the ABs may well have only one loss. Now, imagine if there was a 13 heavily involved in attack, same thing applies.
My overall point being, this team is not operating nesr it's ceiling.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)
217 Beauden Barrett
210 Cortez Ratima
191 Finlay Christie
177 Cam Roigard
159 Ardie Savea
149 Damian Mckenzie
144 Jordie Barrett
128 Will Jordan
86 Fabian Holland
67 Billy ProctorThose are encouraging stats in that 2 of the 3 top 3 most involved players are reserve halfbacks. If Roigard was clear #1 on that list the ABs may well have only one loss. Now, imagine if there was a 13 heavily involved in attack, same thing applies.
My overall point being, this team is not operating nesr it's ceiling.
Well the attack and the defence were close to the worst in the comp based on the first 4 games so one would hope that it wasn't near the ceiling.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)
217 Beauden Barrett
210 Cortez Ratima
191 Finlay Christie
177 Cam Roigard
159 Ardie Savea
149 Damian Mckenzie
144 Jordie Barrett
128 Will Jordan
86 Fabian Holland
67 Billy ProctorThose are encouraging stats in that 2 of the 3 top 3 most involved players are reserve halfbacks. If Roigard was clear #1 on that list the ABs may well have only one loss. Now, imagine if there was a 13 heavily involved in attack, same thing applies.
My overall point being, this team is not operating nesr it's ceiling.
Well the attack and the defence were close to the worst in the comp based on the first 4 games so one would hope that it wasn't near the ceiling.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)
217 Beauden Barrett
210 Cortez Ratima
191 Finlay Christie
177 Cam Roigard
159 Ardie Savea
149 Damian Mckenzie
144 Jordie Barrett
128 Will Jordan
86 Fabian Holland
67 Billy ProctorThose are encouraging stats in that 2 of the 3 top 3 most involved players are reserve halfbacks. If Roigard was clear #1 on that list the ABs may well have only one loss. Now, imagine if there was a 13 heavily involved in attack, same thing applies.
My overall point being, this team is not operating nesr it's ceiling.
Well the attack and the defence were close to the worst in the comp based on the first 4 games so one would hope that it wasn't near the ceiling.
True, I I still think the defence is pretty poor and I'm not sure how easy it will be to improve. Attack wise though the team can definitely go up another couple of gears....
The biggest discrepancy is the gap between involvements from Barrett and Proctor. One is overly involved, the other too peripheral.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
I’ve noticed that 85% of AB backline moves involve NOT passing to Proctor. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that on that basis he’s never going to be an attacking threat.
Hell, in that case they might as well reinstate Rieko and benefit from his superior defence!it was the same when Rieko started, not sure people are only now seeing it
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
I’ve noticed that 85% of AB backline moves involve NOT passing to Proctor. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that on that basis he’s never going to be an attacking threat.
Hell, in that case they might as well reinstate Rieko and benefit from his superior defence!it was the same when Rieko started, not sure people are only now seeing it
Was the same with Snakey as well. Most of the play/touches came through Carter, Tana and Sivivatu.
It was really only post 2007 that Conrad was a key facilitator.
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Not scientific but I thought it would be fun to look at win rates and use those to make some decisions based on picking a team of winners ( assuming all available ). The winningest shall be captain and the second winningest shall be vice captain..
84.6% Cam Roigard (13)
82.1% Patrick Tuipulotu (55)
81.8% Pasilio Tosi (11)
77.9% Damian McKenzie (69)
75% Peter Lakai (4)
74.7% Scott Barrett (85) (Captain)
74.3% Codie Taylor (102)
72.8% Ardie Savea (102)
73% Samisoni Taukei’aho (38)
72.4% Fletcher Newell (30)
71.4% Leicester Fainga’anuku (7)
70.9% Rieko Ioane (86)
70.7% Jordie Barrett (76) (Vice-Captain)
69.6% George Bower (23)
68.8% Cortez Ratima (17)
68.4% Quinn Tupaea (20)
68.2% Tupou Vaa’i (45)
66.7% Tamaiti Williams (22)
66.7% Will Jordan (49)
66.7% Ruben Love (3)
61.5% Wallace Sititi (14)
50% Simon Parker (4)
50% Leroy Carter (2)Potential replacements:
83.3% Samipeni Finau
78.6% Hoskins Sotutu
75.7% Dalton Papali'i100% Ollie Norris
75% Ethan De Groot
75% Fabian Holland77.7% Billy Proctor
100% Emoni Narawa
75.9% Caleb Clarke
80.1% Beauden BarrettThe Winners Team
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Ollie Norris
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Codie Taylor
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Fletcher Newell
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Patrick Tuipulotu (vc)
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Fabian Holland
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Samepeni Finau
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Dalton Papali'i
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Hoskins Sotutu
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Cam Roigard (c)
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Damian McKenzie
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Caleb Clarke
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Leicester Fainga'anuku
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Billy Proctor
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Emoni Narawa
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Jordie Barrett
Replacements
16. Samisoni Tuakei'aho
17. Ethan De Groot
18. Pasilio Tosi
19. Scott Barrett
20. Ardie Savea
21. Cortez Ratima
22. Rieko Ioane
23. Beauden Barrett -
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Not scientific but I thought it would be fun to look at win rates and use those to make some decisions based on picking a team of winners ( assuming all available ). The winningest shall be captain and the second winningest shall be vice captain..
84.6% Cam Roigard (13)
82.1% Patrick Tuipulotu (55)
81.8% Pasilio Tosi (11)
77.9% Damian McKenzie (69)
75% Peter Lakai (4)
74.7% Scott Barrett (85) (Captain)
74.3% Codie Taylor (102)
72.8% Ardie Savea (102)
73% Samisoni Taukei’aho (38)
72.4% Fletcher Newell (30)
71.4% Leicester Fainga’anuku (7)
70.9% Rieko Ioane (86)
70.7% Jordie Barrett (76) (Vice-Captain)
69.6% George Bower (23)
68.8% Cortez Ratima (17)
68.4% Quinn Tupaea (20)
68.2% Tupou Vaa’i (45)
66.7% Tamaiti Williams (22)
66.7% Will Jordan (49)
66.7% Ruben Love (3)
61.5% Wallace Sititi (14)
50% Simon Parker (4)
50% Leroy Carter (2)Potential replacements:
83.3% Samipeni Finau
78.6% Hoskins Sotutu
75.7% Dalton Papali'i100% Ollie Norris
75% Ethan De Groot
75% Fabian Holland77.7% Billy Proctor
100% Emoni Narawa
75.9% Caleb Clarke
80.1% Beauden BarrettThe Winners Team
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Ollie Norris
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Codie Taylor
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Fletcher Newell
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Patrick Tuipulotu (vc)
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Fabian Holland
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Samepeni Finau
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Dalton Papali'i
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Hoskins Sotutu
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Cam Roigard (c)
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Damian McKenzie
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Caleb Clarke
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Leicester Fainga'anuku
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Billy Proctor
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Emoni Narawa
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Jordie Barrett
Replacements
16. Samisoni Tuakei'aho
17. Ethan De Groot
18. Pasilio Tosi
19. Scott Barrett
20. Ardie Savea
21. Cortez Ratima
22. Rieko Ioane
23. Beauden Barrett -
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Not scientific but I thought it would be fun to look at win rates and use those to make some decisions based on picking a team of winners ( assuming all available ). The winningest shall be captain and the second winningest shall be vice captain..
84.6% Cam Roigard (13)
82.1% Patrick Tuipulotu (55)
81.8% Pasilio Tosi (11)
77.9% Damian McKenzie (69)
75% Peter Lakai (4)
74.7% Scott Barrett (85) (Captain)
74.3% Codie Taylor (102)
72.8% Ardie Savea (102)
73% Samisoni Taukei’aho (38)
72.4% Fletcher Newell (30)
71.4% Leicester Fainga’anuku (7)
70.9% Rieko Ioane (86)
70.7% Jordie Barrett (76) (Vice-Captain)
69.6% George Bower (23)
68.8% Cortez Ratima (17)
68.4% Quinn Tupaea (20)
68.2% Tupou Vaa’i (45)
66.7% Tamaiti Williams (22)
66.7% Will Jordan (49)
66.7% Ruben Love (3)
61.5% Wallace Sititi (14)
50% Simon Parker (4)
50% Leroy Carter (2)Potential replacements:
83.3% Samipeni Finau
78.6% Hoskins Sotutu
75.7% Dalton Papali'i100% Ollie Norris
75% Ethan De Groot
75% Fabian Holland77.7% Billy Proctor
100% Emoni Narawa
75.9% Caleb Clarke
80.1% Beauden BarrettThe Winners Team
-
Ollie Norris
-
Codie Taylor
-
Fletcher Newell
-
Patrick Tuipulotu (vc)
-
Fabian Holland
-
Samepeni Finau
-
Dalton Papali'i
-
Hoskins Sotutu
-
Cam Roigard (c)
-
Damian McKenzie
-
Caleb Clarke
-
Leicester Fainga'anuku
-
Billy Proctor
-
Emoni Narawa
-
Jordie Barrett
Replacements
16. Samisoni Tuakei'aho
17. Ethan De Groot
18. Pasilio Tosi
19. Scott Barrett
20. Ardie Savea
21. Cortez Ratima
22. Rieko Ioane
23. Beauden Barrett@brodean You'd better have Wyatt Crockett as your coach.
72 matches - 66 wins, 2 draws, 4 losses.
Holds the world record for consecutive test victories with 32.
I don't think he lost a test in which he was in the starting XV.
Two of those six draws/losses were vs the BIL Lions and another loss was vs the Barbarians (non-test).
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@brodean You'd better have Wyatt Crockett as your coach.
72 matches - 66 wins, 2 draws, 4 losses.
Holds the world record for consecutive test victories with 32.
I don't think he lost a test in which he was in the starting XV.
Two of those six draws/losses were vs the BIL Lions and another loss was vs the Barbarians (non-test).
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@brodean You'd better have Wyatt Crockett as your coach.
72 matches - 66 wins, 2 draws, 4 losses.
Holds the world record for consecutive test victories with 32.
I don't think he lost a test in which he was in the starting XV.
Two of those six draws/losses were vs the BIL Lions and another loss was vs the Barbarians (non-test).
@Chris-B and one of the other losses was that thumping at Twickers when the English midfield of Barritt and Tuilagi ripped us a new one.
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@Chris-B and one of the other losses was that thumping at Twickers when the English midfield of Barritt and Tuilagi ripped us a new one.
@ACT-Crusader Was that the one where apparently half the team was sick? An otherwise inexplicable thrashing?
Wyatt's other loss was Oz in his last season - along with the two BIL matches.
He'd got to some incredible proportion and 2017 spoiled it slightly.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)
217 Beauden Barrett
210 Cortez Ratima
191 Finlay Christie
177 Cam Roigard
159 Ardie Savea
149 Damian Mckenzie
144 Jordie Barrett
128 Will Jordan
86 Fabian Holland
67 Billy ProctorThose are encouraging stats in that 2 of the 3 top 3 most involved players are reserve halfbacks. If Roigard was clear #1 on that list the ABs may well have only one loss. Now, imagine if there was a 13 heavily involved in attack, same thing applies.
My overall point being, this team is not operating nesr it's ceiling.
Well the attack and the defence were close to the worst in the comp based on the first 4 games so one would hope that it wasn't near the ceiling.
True, I I still think the defence is pretty poor and I'm not sure how easy it will be to improve. Attack wise though the team can definitely go up another couple of gears....
The biggest discrepancy is the gap between involvements from Barrett and Proctor. One is overly involved, the other too peripheral.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)
217 Beauden Barrett
210 Cortez Ratima
191 Finlay Christie
177 Cam Roigard
159 Ardie Savea
149 Damian Mckenzie
144 Jordie Barrett
128 Will Jordan
86 Fabian Holland
67 Billy ProctorThose are encouraging stats in that 2 of the 3 top 3 most involved players are reserve halfbacks. If Roigard was clear #1 on that list the ABs may well have only one loss. Now, imagine if there was a 13 heavily involved in attack, same thing applies.
My overall point being, this team is not operating nesr it's ceiling.
Well the attack and the defence were close to the worst in the comp based on the first 4 games so one would hope that it wasn't near the ceiling.
True, I I still think the defence is pretty poor and I'm not sure how easy it will be to improve. Attack wise though the team can definitely go up another couple of gears....
The biggest discrepancy is the gap between involvements from Barrett and Proctor. One is overly involved, the other too peripheral.
Beaudy only passes to one of them.
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@Chris-B and one of the other losses was that thumping at Twickers when the English midfield of Barritt and Tuilagi ripped us a new one.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B and one of the other losses was that thumping at Twickers when the English midfield of Barritt and Tuilagi ripped us a new one.
TBF the boys all had a serious virus.
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@brodean You'd better have Wyatt Crockett as your coach.
72 matches - 66 wins, 2 draws, 4 losses.
Holds the world record for consecutive test victories with 32.
I don't think he lost a test in which he was in the starting XV.
Two of those six draws/losses were vs the BIL Lions and another loss was vs the Barbarians (non-test).
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean You'd better have Wyatt Crockett as your coach.
72 matches - 66 wins, 2 draws, 4 losses.
Holds the world record for consecutive test victories with 32.
I don't think he lost a test in which he was in the starting XV.
Two of those six draws/losses were vs the BIL Lions and another loss was vs the Barbarians (non-test).
Maybe Razor is cursed for dropping Crockett for that fnal.
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It just dawned on me that Razor is right now getting his international experience with the ABs, so by the time he moves on and starts coaching another side he will be a much better coach for it. Wish it was the other way around, but the ABs are his training ground right now and it's making a mess of our legacy. Losing Schmidt to Aus is such a massive fucking fumble from NZR.
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It just dawned on me that Razor is right now getting his international experience with the ABs, so by the time he moves on and starts coaching another side he will be a much better coach for it. Wish it was the other way around, but the ABs are his training ground right now and it's making a mess of our legacy. Losing Schmidt to Aus is such a massive fucking fumble from NZR.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
It just dawned on me that Razor is right now getting his international experience with the ABs, so by the time he moves on and starts coaching another side he will be a much better coach for it. Wish it was the other way around, but the ABs are his training ground right now and it's making a mess of our legacy. Losing Schmidt to Aus is such a massive fucking fumble from NZR.
Which teams is Robertson going to win his two World Cup titles with? I can't see anyone half decent giving him a job if things continue with the All Blacks the way they've been going.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
It just dawned on me that Razor is right now getting his international experience with the ABs, so by the time he moves on and starts coaching another side he will be a much better coach for it. Wish it was the other way around, but the ABs are his training ground right now and it's making a mess of our legacy. Losing Schmidt to Aus is such a massive fucking fumble from NZR.
Which teams is Robertson going to win his two World Cup titles with? I can't see anyone half decent giving him a job if things continue with the All Blacks the way they've been going.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
It just dawned on me that Razor is right now getting his international experience with the ABs, so by the time he moves on and starts coaching another side he will be a much better coach for it. Wish it was the other way around, but the ABs are his training ground right now and it's making a mess of our legacy. Losing Schmidt to Aus is such a massive fucking fumble from NZR.
Which teams is Robertson going to win his two World Cup titles with? I can't see anyone half decent giving him a job if things continue with the All Blacks the way they've been going.
The only countries that seem capable to win are SA, NZ, France, England. Ireland had a great team but are surrender monkeys at RWC time. Not sure Australia have the cattle, would take another perfect storm of generational players to do it. It would take a minor miracle for any of the rest to beat out one or two of the top 4 to win the title. Considering no one has actually done it, I think he's talking shit and the comment smacks of the naivety we are seeing with his ABs tenure right now
