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All Blacks 2025

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  • gt12G gt12

    @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

    @gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:

    @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

    Tuipulotu basically smashes the line fairly consistently when he's on and it works for us. He's very underrated imo and should be starting with Holland.

    Here are the loose forward stats from Super Rugby:

    Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers
    76.7% Cam Christie
    76.5% Oliver Haig
    75.1% Semisi Tupou Ta'eiloa
    74.6% Luke Jacobson
    70.3% TK Howden
    69.8% Corey Kellow
    69.6% Ardie Savea
    68.9% Hoskins Sotutu
    68.2% Anton Segner
    67.9% Du'Plessis Kirifi

    Dominant Carry %
    56.1 Vaiolini Ekuasi
    45.7 Peter Lakai
    44.2 Veveni Lasaqa
    43.8 Luke Jacobson
    43.1 TK Howden
    39.4 Brayden Iose
    39.4 Jahrome Brown
    39.2 Simon Parker
    39.1 Sean Withy
    37.2 Cam Christie

    Gainline %
    73.6 Veveni Lasaqa
    73.5 Jahrome Brown
    72.1 Vaiolini Ekuasi
    71.1 Samipeni Finau
    70.8 Hoskins Sotutu
    69.6 Simon Parker
    68.8 Ardie Savea
    68.3 Christian Lio-Willie
    68.2 Anton Segner
    66.7 Peter Lakai

    Tackle Evasion %
    34.6 Veveni Lasaqa
    26.7 Ardie Savea
    22.8 Dalton Papali'i
    20.0 Jahrome Brown
    19.5 Luke Jacobson
    18.9 Christian Lio-Willie
    18.4 Du'Plessis Kirifi
    18.3 Brayden Iose
    16.7 Hoskins Sotutu
    15.8 Oliver Haig

    Sititi isn't in the top 10 for any of these stats. I realise he didn't play much and was coming back from injury but I will point at these metrics are percentage based.

    These are the players who appear the most.

    Luke Jacobson: (in "Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers," "Dominant Carry %," and "Tackle Evasion %").
    Ardie Savea: (in "Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers," "Gainline %," and "Tackle Evasion %").
    Jahrome Brown: (in "Dominant Carry %," "Gainline %," and "Tackle Evasion %").
    Veveni Lasaqa: (in "Dominant Carry %," "Gainline %," and "Tackle Evasion %").
    Hoskins Sotutu: (in "Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers," "Gainline %," and "Tackle Evasion %").

    It would be good if there was a loose forward who appeared in top 10 for the following 3 but there isn't:

    Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers
    Dominant Carry %,
    Gainline %,"

    Patrick Tuipulotu appears in top 10 for all 3 for locks.

    Forwards Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers
    82.3% Xavier Numia
    76.9% Ollie Norris
    76.7% Cam Christie
    76.5% Asafo Aumua
    76.5% Oliver Haig
    75.1% Semisi Tupou Ta'eiloa
    75.0% Pasilio Tosi
    74.6% Luke Jacobson
    73.6% Patrick Tuipulotu
    73.3% Tevita Mafile'o

    Backs Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers
    82.1% Julian Savea
    75.3% AJ Lam
    71.6% Timoci Tavatavanawai
    67.0% Quinn Tupaea
    65.0% Leicester Fainga'anuku ( France )
    64.0% Anton Lienert-Brown
    63.6% Peter Umaga-Jensen
    63.6% Dallas McLeod
    61.5% Billy Proctor
    59.7% Thomas Umaga-Jensen

    FYI Lasaqa hits bugger all rucks and makes bugger all tackles.

    I appreciate the stats and the percentages do make comparisons easier, but would you happen to have the carries per 80 mins as well?
    Sorry if I missed it and you had a stipulation, but a guy who commits 2 tacklers 75% of the time, but only runs twice a game isn't that useful in comparison to guy who commits 2 tacklers 60% of the time, but runs 12 times a game.

    That's a valid question worth exploring but I would suggest that if we select several players in the onfield 15 who commit 2 tacklers to a high percentage then you can share the carries across those players which keeps the opposition guessing as to who is going to be the guy that bends the line.

    Two points:

    1. Issue with reversion to the mean

    My reason for asking is that if a guy only has two runs a game for 75% gainline, versus another with 12 for 65%, we should likely expect that the first guy will go down to 65% (or worse) as his number of runs increases.

    Equally, there could be guys with 50% gainline on two runs who could rise to 75% if they had 12 runs.

    1. Sharing the carries

    Given that teams play to specific patterns, you'll need certain players with different skillsets, so while I agree that - all other things being constant - running threats across the park are important, in reality we'll have some guys who do a lot of the heavy lifting in that area. Three really effective ball runners across a forward pack may be much better than 8 average ball runners, assuming there is an attack strategy built to put them in the right places.

    boobooB Online
    boobooB Online
    booboo
    wrote on last edited by
    #6802

    @gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:

    two runs a game for 75% gainline,

    Is that possible?

    gt12G 1 Reply Last reply
    3
    • boobooB booboo

      @gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:

      two runs a game for 75% gainline,

      Is that possible?

      gt12G Offline
      gt12G Offline
      gt12
      wrote on last edited by
      #6803

      @booboo said in All Blacks 2025:

      @gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:

      two runs a game for 75% gainline,

      Is that possible?

      Firstly, shut up pedant.

      Secondly, yeah, if he plays 4 games, has 8 runs over those games, and gets over the gain line 6 times.

      1 Reply Last reply
      5
      • R reprobate

        @nostrildamus Parker prior to this year I remember copping a bit of shit for not going hard enough into contact - big frame, bit soft. I don't think he's soft myself at all, and think he was pretty good in Super rugby, but I'm not sure he's got the explosiveness/pace to sit guys on their arse with ball in hand at test level.

        P Offline
        P Offline
        pakman
        wrote on last edited by pakman
        #6804

        @reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

        @nostrildamus Parker prior to this year I remember copping a bit of shit for not going hard enough into contact - big frame, bit soft. I don't think he's soft myself at all, and think he was pretty good in Super rugby, but I'm not sure he's got the explosiveness/pace to sit guys on their arse with ball in hand at test level.

        Eddie Jones was rhapsodising over Parker’s clean outs in first half of Bled 1. The recipients certainly stayed cleaned!

        nostrildamusN 1 Reply Last reply
        2
        • B brodean

          @gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:

          @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

          @gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:

          @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

          Tuipulotu basically smashes the line fairly consistently when he's on and it works for us. He's very underrated imo and should be starting with Holland.

          Here are the loose forward stats from Super Rugby:

          Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers
          76.7% Cam Christie
          76.5% Oliver Haig
          75.1% Semisi Tupou Ta'eiloa
          74.6% Luke Jacobson
          70.3% TK Howden
          69.8% Corey Kellow
          69.6% Ardie Savea
          68.9% Hoskins Sotutu
          68.2% Anton Segner
          67.9% Du'Plessis Kirifi

          Dominant Carry %
          56.1 Vaiolini Ekuasi
          45.7 Peter Lakai
          44.2 Veveni Lasaqa
          43.8 Luke Jacobson
          43.1 TK Howden
          39.4 Brayden Iose
          39.4 Jahrome Brown
          39.2 Simon Parker
          39.1 Sean Withy
          37.2 Cam Christie

          Gainline %
          73.6 Veveni Lasaqa
          73.5 Jahrome Brown
          72.1 Vaiolini Ekuasi
          71.1 Samipeni Finau
          70.8 Hoskins Sotutu
          69.6 Simon Parker
          68.8 Ardie Savea
          68.3 Christian Lio-Willie
          68.2 Anton Segner
          66.7 Peter Lakai

          Tackle Evasion %
          34.6 Veveni Lasaqa
          26.7 Ardie Savea
          22.8 Dalton Papali'i
          20.0 Jahrome Brown
          19.5 Luke Jacobson
          18.9 Christian Lio-Willie
          18.4 Du'Plessis Kirifi
          18.3 Brayden Iose
          16.7 Hoskins Sotutu
          15.8 Oliver Haig

          Sititi isn't in the top 10 for any of these stats. I realise he didn't play much and was coming back from injury but I will point at these metrics are percentage based.

          These are the players who appear the most.

          Luke Jacobson: (in "Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers," "Dominant Carry %," and "Tackle Evasion %").
          Ardie Savea: (in "Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers," "Gainline %," and "Tackle Evasion %").
          Jahrome Brown: (in "Dominant Carry %," "Gainline %," and "Tackle Evasion %").
          Veveni Lasaqa: (in "Dominant Carry %," "Gainline %," and "Tackle Evasion %").
          Hoskins Sotutu: (in "Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers," "Gainline %," and "Tackle Evasion %").

          It would be good if there was a loose forward who appeared in top 10 for the following 3 but there isn't:

          Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers
          Dominant Carry %,
          Gainline %,"

          Patrick Tuipulotu appears in top 10 for all 3 for locks.

          Forwards Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers
          82.3% Xavier Numia
          76.9% Ollie Norris
          76.7% Cam Christie
          76.5% Asafo Aumua
          76.5% Oliver Haig
          75.1% Semisi Tupou Ta'eiloa
          75.0% Pasilio Tosi
          74.6% Luke Jacobson
          73.6% Patrick Tuipulotu
          73.3% Tevita Mafile'o

          Backs Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers
          82.1% Julian Savea
          75.3% AJ Lam
          71.6% Timoci Tavatavanawai
          67.0% Quinn Tupaea
          65.0% Leicester Fainga'anuku ( France )
          64.0% Anton Lienert-Brown
          63.6% Peter Umaga-Jensen
          63.6% Dallas McLeod
          61.5% Billy Proctor
          59.7% Thomas Umaga-Jensen

          FYI Lasaqa hits bugger all rucks and makes bugger all tackles.

          I appreciate the stats and the percentages do make comparisons easier, but would you happen to have the carries per 80 mins as well?
          Sorry if I missed it and you had a stipulation, but a guy who commits 2 tacklers 75% of the time, but only runs twice a game isn't that useful in comparison to guy who commits 2 tacklers 60% of the time, but runs 12 times a game.

          That's a valid question worth exploring but I would suggest that if we select several players in the onfield 15 who commit 2 tacklers to a high percentage then you can share the carries across those players which keeps the opposition guessing as to who is going to be the guy that bends the line.

          Two points:

          1. Issue with reversion to the mean

          My reason for asking is that if a guy only has two runs a game for 75% gainline, versus another with 12 for 65%, we should likely expect that the first guy will go down to 65% (or worse) as his number of runs increases.

          Equally, there could be guys with 50% gainline on two runs who could rise to 75% if they had 12 runs.

          1. Sharing the carries

          Given that teams play to specific patterns, you'll need certain players with different skillsets, so while I agree that - all other things being constant - running threats across the park are important, in reality we'll have some guys who do a lot of the heavy lifting in that area. Three really effective ball runners across a forward pack may be much better than 8 average ball runners, assuming there is an attack strategy built to put them in the right places.

          Look I pretty much agree with you on both points and certainly I'm not suggesting we have 8 average ball runners.

          Personally I think we should have some players that compliment each other.

          If you have a tight five like the following none of these players are effective close quarter runners that commit tacklers. Taylor is good out wide.

          De Groot, Taylor, Lomax/Newell, Barrett, Vaa'i

          One or two guys like Norris, Tosi, Tuipulotu, and Taukei'aho should be in the starting line up and then the bench guys should have a mix of some ball runners and the ruck guys.

          Guys like De Groot should not be carrying basically. He should be hitting rucks and making tackles outside of his set piece duties and mauling - like Owen Franks.

          De Groot has made 26 carries this year for 11 metres or 40cm per carry. Out of the 21 forwards who have featured this year De Groot has made the 6th most forward carries and the 6th most passes.

          He just appears in the attack pattern far to often.

          KruseK Offline
          KruseK Offline
          Kruse
          wrote on last edited by
          #6805

          @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

          Personally I think we should have some players that compliment each other.

          Oh Codie, that was such a great throw-in.
          Great carry Scooter!
          You're the man Ardie!

          BonesB 1 Reply Last reply
          8
          • KruseK Kruse

            @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

            Personally I think we should have some players that compliment each other.

            Oh Codie, that was such a great throw-in.
            Great carry Scooter!
            You're the man Ardie!

            BonesB Online
            BonesB Online
            Bones
            wrote on last edited by
            #6806

            @Kruse said in All Blacks 2025:

            @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

            Personally I think we should have some players that compliment each other.

            Oh Codie, that was such a great throw-in.
            Great carry Scooter!
            You're the man Ardie!

            Great haircut Beauden.
            Thanks Jordie.

            taniwharugbyT 1 Reply Last reply
            4
            • BonesB Bones

              @Kruse said in All Blacks 2025:

              @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

              Personally I think we should have some players that compliment each other.

              Oh Codie, that was such a great throw-in.
              Great carry Scooter!
              You're the man Ardie!

              Great haircut Beauden.
              Thanks Jordie.

              taniwharugbyT Offline
              taniwharugbyT Offline
              taniwharugby
              wrote on last edited by
              #6807

              @Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

              @Kruse said in All Blacks 2025:

              @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

              Personally I think we should have some players that compliment each other.

              Oh Codie, that was such a great throw-in.
              Great carry Scooter!
              You're the man Ardie!

              Great haircut Beauden Razor.
              Thanks Jordie Beaudie.

              P 1 Reply Last reply
              4
              • P Offline
                P Offline
                pakman
                wrote on last edited by pakman
                #6808

                I’ve noticed that 85% of AB backline moves involve NOT passing to Proctor. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that on that basis he’s never going to be an attacking threat.
                Hell, in that case they might as well reinstate Rieko and benefit from his superior defence!

                voodooV nonpartizanN 2 Replies Last reply
                4
                • taniwharugbyT taniwharugby

                  @Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

                  @Kruse said in All Blacks 2025:

                  @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

                  Personally I think we should have some players that compliment each other.

                  Oh Codie, that was such a great throw-in.
                  Great carry Scooter!
                  You're the man Ardie!

                  Great haircut Beauden Razor.
                  Thanks Jordie Beaudie.

                  P Offline
                  P Offline
                  pakman
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #6809

                  @taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:

                  @Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

                  @Kruse said in All Blacks 2025:

                  @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

                  Personally I think we should have some players that compliment each other.

                  Oh Codie, that was such a great throw-in.
                  Great carry Scooter!
                  You're the man Ardie!

                  Great haircut Beauden Razor.
                  Thanks Jordie Beaudie.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  2
                  • B Offline
                    B Offline
                    brodean
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #6810

                    The loose forwards should also complement each other in addition to the compliments.

                    The compliments shouldn't extend to backs.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    1
                    • P pakman

                      I’ve noticed that 85% of AB backline moves involve NOT passing to Proctor. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that on that basis he’s never going to be an attacking threat.
                      Hell, in that case they might as well reinstate Rieko and benefit from his superior defence!

                      voodooV Offline
                      voodooV Offline
                      voodoo
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #6811

                      @pakman said in All Blacks 2025:

                      I’ve noticed that 85% of AB backline moves involve NOT passing to Proctor. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that on that basis he’s never going to be an attacking threat.
                      Hell, in that case they might as well reinstate Rieko and benefit from his superior defence!

                      it was the same when Rieko started, not sure people are only now seeing it

                      ACT CrusaderA 1 Reply Last reply
                      5
                      • P pakman

                        @reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

                        @nostrildamus Parker prior to this year I remember copping a bit of shit for not going hard enough into contact - big frame, bit soft. I don't think he's soft myself at all, and think he was pretty good in Super rugby, but I'm not sure he's got the explosiveness/pace to sit guys on their arse with ball in hand at test level.

                        Eddie Jones was rhapsodising over Parker’s clean outs in first half of Bled 1. The recipients certainly stayed cleaned!

                        nostrildamusN Offline
                        nostrildamusN Offline
                        nostrildamus
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #6812

                        @pakman said in All Blacks 2025:

                        Eddie Jones was rhapsodising over Parker’s clean outs in first half of Bled 1. The recipients certainly stayed cleaned!

                        Well Eddie should know, he certainly delivered devastating cleanouts at/of the Wallabies.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        1
                        • P pakman

                          I’ve noticed that 85% of AB backline moves involve NOT passing to Proctor. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that on that basis he’s never going to be an attacking threat.
                          Hell, in that case they might as well reinstate Rieko and benefit from his superior defence!

                          nonpartizanN Offline
                          nonpartizanN Offline
                          nonpartizan
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #6813

                          @pakman said in All Blacks 2025:

                          I’ve noticed that 85% of AB backline moves involve NOT passing to Proctor. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that on that basis he’s never going to be an attacking threat.
                          Hell, in that case they might as well reinstate Rieko and benefit from his superior defence!

                          For real.

                          When you rewatch tests it's one of the first things you notice - I swear players actively avoid passing to him even if he is the best option. In Wellington v the Boks Jordan I think it was had the ball and he had Proctor outside him and then Carter outside him. He skipped Proctor (which was the easiest and correct pass) and instead passed it to Carter's ankles for a knock on.

                          voodooV 1 Reply Last reply
                          1
                          • nonpartizanN nonpartizan

                            @pakman said in All Blacks 2025:

                            I’ve noticed that 85% of AB backline moves involve NOT passing to Proctor. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that on that basis he’s never going to be an attacking threat.
                            Hell, in that case they might as well reinstate Rieko and benefit from his superior defence!

                            For real.

                            When you rewatch tests it's one of the first things you notice - I swear players actively avoid passing to him even if he is the best option. In Wellington v the Boks Jordan I think it was had the ball and he had Proctor outside him and then Carter outside him. He skipped Proctor (which was the easiest and correct pass) and instead passed it to Carter's ankles for a knock on.

                            voodooV Offline
                            voodooV Offline
                            voodoo
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #6814

                            @nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:

                            @pakman said in All Blacks 2025:

                            I’ve noticed that 85% of AB backline moves involve NOT passing to Proctor. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that on that basis he’s never going to be an attacking threat.
                            Hell, in that case they might as well reinstate Rieko and benefit from his superior defence!

                            For real.

                            When you rewatch tests it's one of the first things you notice - I swear players actively avoid passing to him even if he is the best option. In Wellington v the Boks Jordan I think it was had the ball and he had Proctor outside him and then Carter outside him. He skipped Proctor (which was the easiest and correct pass) and instead passed it to Carter's ankles for a knock on.

                            Reminds me of anothher whinge, the use of skip passes when hands are the better option. Increasingly noticeable how often we do this, and how often the defender slides out to comfortably cover

                            taniwharugbyT 1 Reply Last reply
                            5
                            • B Offline
                              B Offline
                              brodean
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #6815

                              For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)

                              217 Beauden Barrett
                              210 Cortez Ratima
                              191 Finlay Christie
                              177 Cam Roigard
                              159 Ardie Savea
                              149 Damian Mckenzie
                              144 Jordie Barrett
                              128 Will Jordan
                              86 Fabian Holland
                              67 Billy Proctor

                              nonpartizanN 1 Reply Last reply
                              1
                              • voodooV voodoo

                                @nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:

                                @pakman said in All Blacks 2025:

                                I’ve noticed that 85% of AB backline moves involve NOT passing to Proctor. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that on that basis he’s never going to be an attacking threat.
                                Hell, in that case they might as well reinstate Rieko and benefit from his superior defence!

                                For real.

                                When you rewatch tests it's one of the first things you notice - I swear players actively avoid passing to him even if he is the best option. In Wellington v the Boks Jordan I think it was had the ball and he had Proctor outside him and then Carter outside him. He skipped Proctor (which was the easiest and correct pass) and instead passed it to Carter's ankles for a knock on.

                                Reminds me of anothher whinge, the use of skip passes when hands are the better option. Increasingly noticeable how often we do this, and how often the defender slides out to comfortably cover

                                taniwharugbyT Offline
                                taniwharugbyT Offline
                                taniwharugby
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #6816

                                @voodoo it was similar to pre-2023 when Smith was barely runnimg, he kicked, he passed, and was very easy to see what he was doing, so defence was able to respond accordingly, we looked far more dangerous when he bought back some running to his game.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                2
                                • B brodean

                                  For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)

                                  217 Beauden Barrett
                                  210 Cortez Ratima
                                  191 Finlay Christie
                                  177 Cam Roigard
                                  159 Ardie Savea
                                  149 Damian Mckenzie
                                  144 Jordie Barrett
                                  128 Will Jordan
                                  86 Fabian Holland
                                  67 Billy Proctor

                                  nonpartizanN Offline
                                  nonpartizanN Offline
                                  nonpartizan
                                  wrote on last edited by nonpartizan
                                  #6817

                                  @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

                                  For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)

                                  217 Beauden Barrett
                                  210 Cortez Ratima
                                  191 Finlay Christie
                                  177 Cam Roigard
                                  159 Ardie Savea
                                  149 Damian Mckenzie
                                  144 Jordie Barrett
                                  128 Will Jordan
                                  86 Fabian Holland
                                  67 Billy Proctor

                                  Those are encouraging stats in that 2 of the 3 top 3 most involved players are reserve halfbacks. If Roigard was clear #1 on that list the ABs may well have only one loss. Now, imagine if there was a 13 heavily involved in attack, same thing applies.

                                  My overall point being, this team is not operating nesr it's ceiling.

                                  B 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • nonpartizanN nonpartizan

                                    @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

                                    For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)

                                    217 Beauden Barrett
                                    210 Cortez Ratima
                                    191 Finlay Christie
                                    177 Cam Roigard
                                    159 Ardie Savea
                                    149 Damian Mckenzie
                                    144 Jordie Barrett
                                    128 Will Jordan
                                    86 Fabian Holland
                                    67 Billy Proctor

                                    Those are encouraging stats in that 2 of the 3 top 3 most involved players are reserve halfbacks. If Roigard was clear #1 on that list the ABs may well have only one loss. Now, imagine if there was a 13 heavily involved in attack, same thing applies.

                                    My overall point being, this team is not operating nesr it's ceiling.

                                    B Offline
                                    B Offline
                                    brodean
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #6818

                                    @nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:

                                    @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

                                    For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)

                                    217 Beauden Barrett
                                    210 Cortez Ratima
                                    191 Finlay Christie
                                    177 Cam Roigard
                                    159 Ardie Savea
                                    149 Damian Mckenzie
                                    144 Jordie Barrett
                                    128 Will Jordan
                                    86 Fabian Holland
                                    67 Billy Proctor

                                    Those are encouraging stats in that 2 of the 3 top 3 most involved players are reserve halfbacks. If Roigard was clear #1 on that list the ABs may well have only one loss. Now, imagine if there was a 13 heavily involved in attack, same thing applies.

                                    My overall point being, this team is not operating nesr it's ceiling.

                                    Well the attack and the defence were close to the worst in the comp based on the first 4 games so one would hope that it wasn't near the ceiling.

                                    nonpartizanN 1 Reply Last reply
                                    1
                                    • B brodean

                                      @nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:

                                      @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

                                      For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)

                                      217 Beauden Barrett
                                      210 Cortez Ratima
                                      191 Finlay Christie
                                      177 Cam Roigard
                                      159 Ardie Savea
                                      149 Damian Mckenzie
                                      144 Jordie Barrett
                                      128 Will Jordan
                                      86 Fabian Holland
                                      67 Billy Proctor

                                      Those are encouraging stats in that 2 of the 3 top 3 most involved players are reserve halfbacks. If Roigard was clear #1 on that list the ABs may well have only one loss. Now, imagine if there was a 13 heavily involved in attack, same thing applies.

                                      My overall point being, this team is not operating nesr it's ceiling.

                                      Well the attack and the defence were close to the worst in the comp based on the first 4 games so one would hope that it wasn't near the ceiling.

                                      nonpartizanN Offline
                                      nonpartizanN Offline
                                      nonpartizan
                                      wrote on last edited by nonpartizan
                                      #6819

                                      @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

                                      @nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:

                                      @brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

                                      For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)

                                      217 Beauden Barrett
                                      210 Cortez Ratima
                                      191 Finlay Christie
                                      177 Cam Roigard
                                      159 Ardie Savea
                                      149 Damian Mckenzie
                                      144 Jordie Barrett
                                      128 Will Jordan
                                      86 Fabian Holland
                                      67 Billy Proctor

                                      Those are encouraging stats in that 2 of the 3 top 3 most involved players are reserve halfbacks. If Roigard was clear #1 on that list the ABs may well have only one loss. Now, imagine if there was a 13 heavily involved in attack, same thing applies.

                                      My overall point being, this team is not operating nesr it's ceiling.

                                      Well the attack and the defence were close to the worst in the comp based on the first 4 games so one would hope that it wasn't near the ceiling.

                                      True, I I still think the defence is pretty poor and I'm not sure how easy it will be to improve. Attack wise though the team can definitely go up another couple of gears....

                                      The biggest discrepancy is the gap between involvements from Barrett and Proctor. One is overly involved, the other too peripheral.

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                                      • voodooV voodoo

                                        @pakman said in All Blacks 2025:

                                        I’ve noticed that 85% of AB backline moves involve NOT passing to Proctor. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that on that basis he’s never going to be an attacking threat.
                                        Hell, in that case they might as well reinstate Rieko and benefit from his superior defence!

                                        it was the same when Rieko started, not sure people are only now seeing it

                                        ACT CrusaderA Offline
                                        ACT CrusaderA Offline
                                        ACT Crusader
                                        wrote on last edited by ACT Crusader
                                        #6820

                                        @voodoo said in All Blacks 2025:

                                        @pakman said in All Blacks 2025:

                                        I’ve noticed that 85% of AB backline moves involve NOT passing to Proctor. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that on that basis he’s never going to be an attacking threat.
                                        Hell, in that case they might as well reinstate Rieko and benefit from his superior defence!

                                        it was the same when Rieko started, not sure people are only now seeing it

                                        Was the same with Snakey as well. Most of the play/touches came through Carter, Tana and Sivivatu.

                                        It was really only post 2007 that Conrad was a key facilitator.

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                                        • B Offline
                                          B Offline
                                          brodean
                                          wrote on last edited by brodean
                                          #6821

                                          Not scientific but I thought it would be fun to look at win rates and use those to make some decisions based on picking a team of winners ( assuming all available ). The winningest shall be captain and the second winningest shall be vice captain..

                                          84.6% Cam Roigard (13)
                                          82.1% Patrick Tuipulotu (55)
                                          81.8% Pasilio Tosi (11)
                                          77.9% Damian McKenzie (69)
                                          75% Peter Lakai (4)
                                          74.7% Scott Barrett (85) (Captain)
                                          74.3% Codie Taylor (102)
                                          72.8% Ardie Savea (102)
                                          73% Samisoni Taukei’aho (38)
                                          72.4% Fletcher Newell (30)
                                          71.4% Leicester Fainga’anuku (7)
                                          70.9% Rieko Ioane (86)
                                          70.7% Jordie Barrett (76) (Vice-Captain)
                                          69.6% George Bower (23)
                                          68.8% Cortez Ratima (17)
                                          68.4% Quinn Tupaea (20)
                                          68.2% Tupou Vaa’i (45)
                                          66.7% Tamaiti Williams (22)
                                          66.7% Will Jordan (49)
                                          66.7% Ruben Love (3)
                                          61.5% Wallace Sititi (14)
                                          50% Simon Parker (4)
                                          50% Leroy Carter (2)

                                          Potential replacements:

                                          83.3% Samipeni Finau
                                          78.6% Hoskins Sotutu
                                          75.7% Dalton Papali'i

                                          100% Ollie Norris
                                          75% Ethan De Groot
                                          75% Fabian Holland

                                          77.7% Billy Proctor
                                          100% Emoni Narawa
                                          75.9% Caleb Clarke
                                          80.1% Beauden Barrett

                                          The Winners Team

                                          1. Ollie Norris

                                          2. Codie Taylor

                                          3. Fletcher Newell

                                          4. Patrick Tuipulotu (vc)

                                          5. Fabian Holland

                                          6. Samepeni Finau

                                          7. Dalton Papali'i

                                          8. Hoskins Sotutu

                                          9. Cam Roigard (c)

                                          10. Damian McKenzie

                                          11. Caleb Clarke

                                          12. Leicester Fainga'anuku

                                          13. Billy Proctor

                                          14. Emoni Narawa

                                          15. Jordie Barrett

                                          Replacements
                                          16. Samisoni Tuakei'aho
                                          17. Ethan De Groot
                                          18. Pasilio Tosi
                                          19. Scott Barrett
                                          20. Ardie Savea
                                          21. Cortez Ratima
                                          22. Rieko Ioane
                                          23. Beauden Barrett

                                          M Chris B.C 2 Replies Last reply
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