All Blacks 2025
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A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
@Chris said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
yes. glaringly yes.
however if you are also stuck in the wrong parts of the field. Or you are not going forward. Then just recycling shit possession is asking for even more trouble. slow ball to slow ball will just inevitably result in a penalty.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?
A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?
I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.
I just don't see the logic.
And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.
I don't think Akira's and Hoskins' contributions in black aren't any worse than some of the guys who have been given extended runs (EB and Frizell come to mind). Coaches play favourites and always have. At the same time, both guys have been passed over by more than one AB coaching group. So perhaps both sides have elements of truth. Obviously we aren't seeing something that the coaches are. Or they are just plain wrong
I'm sorry but in what world has EB had an extended run in black?
The only thing that stopped his run was the fact he's made of glass. Wallace wouldn't have got a look in if Ethan had stayed fit
@canefan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?
A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?
I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.
I just don't see the logic.
And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.
I don't think Akira's and Hoskins' contributions in black aren't any worse than some of the guys who have been given extended runs (EB and Frizell come to mind). Coaches play favourites and always have. At the same time, both guys have been passed over by more than one AB coaching group. So perhaps both sides have elements of truth. Obviously we aren't seeing something that the coaches are. Or they are just plain wrong
I'm sorry but in what world has EB had an extended run in black?
The only thing that stopped his run was the fact he's made of glass. Wallace wouldn't have got a look in if Ethan had stayed fit
So, he didn't have an extended run then?
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@Nepia said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ARHS said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Can we have a separate thread for the Akira and Sotutu revisionists? Too hard scrolling through for info on the AB XV
Do the Frizell revisionists get their own as well?
Razor's doing that with Mo'unga too. Bestest ever ten to play the game! The solution to all our woes! Will fix lineouts and porous defence, as well as hitting rucks, smashing people in tackles and, um, something something
@nzzp said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ARHS said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Can we have a separate thread for the Akira and Sotutu revisionists? Too hard scrolling through for info on the AB XV
Do the Frizell revisionists get their own as well?
Razor's doing that with Mo'unga too. Bestest ever ten to play the game! The solution to all our woes! Will fix lineouts and porous defence, as well as hitting rucks, smashing people in tackles and, um, something something
This place is going to light up like Chernobyl if RM comes back a shadow of RM 23. For the sake of our chances at RWC27 I hope he comes back at least that good
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A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
@Chris said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
A coach entrusted with development of a Test strategy who uses the word "learnings" is literally too fucking stupid to be employed in the office.
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The revisionism on here is crazy... the arguments around Sotutu last year - totally fair and reasonable. But these claims around Akira Ioane are nonsensical. In his time in New Zealand, we had three different coaches, and none of them took a true liking to him.
Blaming Jase Ryan is just a lazy excuse. Akira got a good run, and played some decent footy in black between 20-22. Him losing his spot to Frizzell was a timing thing. Frizzell played the game of his life in the test which saved Foster's job, and largely backed that up (scored two tries in the RWC SF which is conveniently forgotten), and dominated the Boks at Mt Smart, so deservedly kept the shirt. Him being anonymous in the World Cup doesn't change that.
Ioane drifted from view because Finau had a superb 2023 Super campaign, and looked like our next star (like Fifita, Frizzell and Ioane before him). We only took one blindside to the World Cup and that was Frizzell. Scott Barrett was the backup 6.
If Akira was undeniable, he'd have been retained - but he wasn't. He was just another inconsistent blindside in a long line since Kaino - and there is nothing to suggest that his Super Rugby form would have all of a sudden translated to test rugby.
He played 21 tests in three years, Frizzell 33 in five years. It is a very similar ratio (half the tests in a year) because they were both inconsistent and neither could nail the shirt - just as is happening now with Samipeni Finau, and dare I say it, Simon Parker might go the same way.
It begs the question, are we asking too much of our blindside flanker?
@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The revisionism on here is crazy... the arguments around Sotutu last year - totally fair and reasonable. But these claims around Akira Ioane are nonsensical. In his time in New Zealand, we had three different coaches, and none of them took a true liking to him.
Blaming Jase Ryan is just a lazy excuse. Akira got a good run, and played some decent footy in black between 20-22. Him losing his spot to Frizzell was a timing thing. Frizzell played the game of his life in the test which saved Foster's job, and largely backed that up (scored two tries in the RWC SF which is conveniently forgotten), and dominated the Boks at Mt Smart, so deservedly kept the shirt. Him being anonymous in the World Cup doesn't change that.
Ioane drifted from view because Finau had a superb 2023 Super campaign, and looked like our next star (like Fifita, Frizzell and Ioane before him). We only took one blindside to the World Cup and that was Frizzell. Scott Barrett was the backup 6.
If Akira was undeniable, he'd have been retained - but he wasn't. He was just another inconsistent blindside in a long line since Kaino - and there is nothing to suggest that his Super Rugby form would have all of a sudden translated to test rugby.
He played 21 tests in three years, Frizzell 33 in five years. It is a very similar ratio (half the tests in a year) because they were both inconsistent and neither could nail the shirt - just as is happening now with Samipeni Finau, and dare I say it, Simon Parker might go the same way.
It begs the question, are we asking too much of our blindside flanker?
You are conflating Frizell's timeline with Ioanes.
When Frizell came back midway through 2022 he had played roughly the same amount of tests as Akira did his entire career.
Around the 20 to 40 mark is when players start to play their best rugby. Through to around 60 or 70 tests. At that point some players drop off in quality and minority continue to play test level rugby.
Around the 20 to 30 mark is when players blossom. As a coach you invest in them and then you begin to see the fruits from 30+ tests
This is the case with Mo'unga, Frizell, Tuipulotu, Jordie Barrett, Maa Nonu, Conrad Smith etc.
Some players come on the scene and thrive right away but this is rare now.
I believe Foster actually liked Ioane because he was pretty cut about not getting to talk to Ioane and Sotutu. You blame Foster but I believe it was Ryan's influence by that stage.
As for Finau he dropped off in 2024 while Ioane arguably had the best season of his career. Ioane's game was well rounded.
Papali'i has played close to 40 tests now and they should be maximising that investment but instead they're squandering it.
He has won 91.6% of the RC tests hes played in over the Foster/Razor era. Only Savea has played more RC games as a loose forward from the guys in the ABs and ABs XV squad. Razors win rate is 58% in RC games.
Most of the loose forwards are around a 60% win rate. Papali'i has won 67% of RWC knock out games hes played in. He has invaluable experience.
The guys that are being selected are failing at RC level at a historical precedent. Never before have ABs won less games in the RC than the last two years.
The only loose forward in the current ABs squad to win a Super title is Savea. Finau and Jacobson have won RC. Jacobson u20 title. The rest of the guys do not have any winning pedigree. They did not win u20. They did not win Super Rugby. They did not win RC.
Ultimately the All Blacks is a team of players who know how to win and with the current players we dont have that.
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A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
That quote makes it sound like it was a lot of hard work to find areas where they can improve. Combing through footage, searching out the smallest of moments in which things weren't perfect. And they haven't found much at all. Imagine what that record loss to South Africa would have been like if the team wasn't performing to such high standards.
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A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
Sack this clown as soon as possible please.
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A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
@Chris sounds like they are looking for those 1% changes to help a team at the top of thier game, when we arent and there are some glaring massive issues that would have a much swifter and positive impact on the game.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
Sack this clown as soon as possible please.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
Sack this clown as soon as possible please.
Which one?
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I can't believe the free pass some people give these coaches. Our biggest weakness right now is the loose forwards., where we get outplayed basically every game against Tier 1 sides. The coaches have inexplicably chosen to not select three of the best loose forwards in the country, whose games translate well to test footy. As a result, we continue to get beaten up in the loosies, and we continue to lose matches as a result.
And some posters just wave this away as "fringe selections that wouldn't make a difference anyway" ?? Are you guys serious? We have a small population and a shallow depth of pool to chose from, we cannot in a million years be casting aside our most talented players like this and then expect some magical game plan will make up for it. That's insane and if we continue to lose the breakdown battle then we are just going to continue to lose matches, end of story.
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The referees for the tour games:
Ireland v New Zealand - Pierre Brousset (FFR)
Scotland v New Zealand - Nic Berry (RA)
England v New Zealand - Andrea Piardi (FIR)
Wales v New Zealand - Hollie Davidson (SRU)Barbarians v All Blacks XV - Nic Berry (RA)
England A v All Blacks XV - TBA (RFU appointment)
Uruguay v All Blacks XV - TBA (FFR appointment)@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
The referees for the tour games:
Ireland v New Zealand - Pierre Brousset (FFR)
Scotland v New Zealand - Nic Berry (RA)
England v New Zealand - Andrea Piardi (FIR)
Wales v New Zealand - Hollie Davidson (SRU)Barbarians v All Blacks XV - Nic Berry (RA)
England A v All Blacks XV - TBA (RFU appointment)
Uruguay v All Blacks XV - TBA (FFR appointment)Oh good. Random Frog I've never heard of v Ireland. That'll help.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
The referees for the tour games:
Ireland v New Zealand - Pierre Brousset (FFR)
Scotland v New Zealand - Nic Berry (RA)
England v New Zealand - Andrea Piardi (FIR)
Wales v New Zealand - Hollie Davidson (SRU)Barbarians v All Blacks XV - Nic Berry (RA)
England A v All Blacks XV - TBA (RFU appointment)
Uruguay v All Blacks XV - TBA (FFR appointment)Oh good. Random Frog I've never heard of v Ireland. That'll help.
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
The referees for the tour games:
Ireland v New Zealand - Pierre Brousset (FFR)
Scotland v New Zealand - Nic Berry (RA)
England v New Zealand - Andrea Piardi (FIR)
Wales v New Zealand - Hollie Davidson (SRU)Barbarians v All Blacks XV - Nic Berry (RA)
England A v All Blacks XV - TBA (RFU appointment)
Uruguay v All Blacks XV - TBA (FFR appointment)Oh good. Random Frog I've never heard of v Ireland. That'll help.
Did you notice the first female ref for an AB game, I think ever?
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
The referees for the tour games:
Ireland v New Zealand - Pierre Brousset (FFR)
Scotland v New Zealand - Nic Berry (RA)
England v New Zealand - Andrea Piardi (FIR)
Wales v New Zealand - Hollie Davidson (SRU)Barbarians v All Blacks XV - Nic Berry (RA)
England A v All Blacks XV - TBA (RFU appointment)
Uruguay v All Blacks XV - TBA (FFR appointment)Oh good. Random Frog I've never heard of v Ireland. That'll help.
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I can't believe the free pass some people give these coaches. Our biggest weakness right now is the loose forwards., where we get outplayed basically every game against Tier 1 sides. The coaches have inexplicably chosen to not select three of the best loose forwards in the country, whose games translate well to test footy. As a result, we continue to get beaten up in the loosies, and we continue to lose matches as a result.
And some posters just wave this away as "fringe selections that wouldn't make a difference anyway" ?? Are you guys serious? We have a small population and a shallow depth of pool to chose from, we cannot in a million years be casting aside our most talented players like this and then expect some magical game plan will make up for it. That's insane and if we continue to lose the breakdown battle then we are just going to continue to lose matches, end of story.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
I can't believe the free pass some people give these coaches. Our biggest weakness right now is the loose forwards., where we get outplayed basically every game against Tier 1 sides. The coaches have inexplicably chosen to not select three of the best loose forwards in the country, whose games translate well to test footy. As a result, we continue to get beaten up in the loosies, and we continue to lose matches as a result.
Couldn’t agree more. Grace, Blackadder and Christie all should be in the squad.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
Oh good. Random Frog I've never heard of v Ireland. That'll help.
He was the ref in Arg when the ABs won. Also did the Brumbies game against the Lions.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
Oh good. Random Frog I've never heard of v Ireland. That'll help.
He was the ref in Arg when the ABs won. Also did the Brumbies game against the Lions.
I thought he was the least random we have had from a NH ref for some time.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
The referees for the tour games:
Ireland v New Zealand - Pierre Brousset (FFR)
Scotland v New Zealand - Nic Berry (RA)
England v New Zealand - Andrea Piardi (FIR)
Wales v New Zealand - Hollie Davidson (SRU)Barbarians v All Blacks XV - Nic Berry (RA)
England A v All Blacks XV - TBA (RFU appointment)
Uruguay v All Blacks XV - TBA (FFR appointment)Oh good. Random Frog I've never heard of v Ireland. That'll help.
Did you notice the first female ref for an AB game, I think ever?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
The referees for the tour games:
Ireland v New Zealand - Pierre Brousset (FFR)
Scotland v New Zealand - Nic Berry (RA)
England v New Zealand - Andrea Piardi (FIR)
Wales v New Zealand - Hollie Davidson (SRU)Barbarians v All Blacks XV - Nic Berry (RA)
England A v All Blacks XV - TBA (RFU appointment)
Uruguay v All Blacks XV - TBA (FFR appointment)Oh good. Random Frog I've never heard of v Ireland. That'll help.
Did you notice the first female ref for an AB game, I think ever?
Reminds me of the time we played France in a RWC QF and rather than select one of the top refs they gave the most important game of the year to some young up and comer by the name of Barnes....
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I can't believe the free pass some people give these coaches. Our biggest weakness right now is the loose forwards., where we get outplayed basically every game against Tier 1 sides. The coaches have inexplicably chosen to not select three of the best loose forwards in the country, whose games translate well to test footy. As a result, we continue to get beaten up in the loosies, and we continue to lose matches as a result.
And some posters just wave this away as "fringe selections that wouldn't make a difference anyway" ?? Are you guys serious? We have a small population and a shallow depth of pool to chose from, we cannot in a million years be casting aside our most talented players like this and then expect some magical game plan will make up for it. That's insane and if we continue to lose the breakdown battle then we are just going to continue to lose matches, end of story.
@No-Quarter how much of our loosies' ineffectiveness is personnel, and how much is game plan? I think the guys we do have could be made to look better if we played more direct, focussed on winning the collision and recycling our ball. For short periods during games this year when we've done that we have looked good. That is why the Blues of 2024 were such a tease to me. DP, HS and Akira all showed they can play that game, but never got a shot that year to see if they could do it at the next level
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@No-Quarter how much of our loosies' ineffectiveness is personnel, and how much is game plan? I think the guys we do have could be made to look better if we played more direct, focussed on winning the collision and recycling our ball. For short periods during games this year when we've done that we have looked good. That is why the Blues of 2024 were such a tease to me. DP, HS and Akira all showed they can play that game, but never got a shot that year to see if they could do it at the next level
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter how much of our loosies' ineffectiveness is personnel, and how much is game plan? I think the guys we do have could be made to look better if we played more direct, focussed on winning the collision and recycling our ball. For short periods during games this year when we've done that we have looked good. That is why the Blues of 2024 were such a tease to me. DP, HS and Akira all showed they can play that game, but never got a shot that year to see if they could do it at the next level
Thats not how Razor and co want to play unfortunately.
