Scotland v All Blacks
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@ACT-Crusader interesting, I fucking hated Howlett the first few years.
But....his work ethic and general skills were light years ahead of Jordan.
Have I mentioned Lelia Masaga?
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@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I don’t like this bit. Even if he is the best option at this stage (I don’t think he is) how do they find out if someone else is better when no time is being put into anyone else? Come 2027, there might very well be a better option if the time is put into them now. Barrett is getting worse and worse but gets all the game time. It’s very short sighted. Unfortunately what they seem to be doing is waiting for the return of Mo’unfa, who might be okay or much worse than he was when he went overseas.
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@nostrildamus said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I suspect BB was always a limited 10 but his speed and flukiness blinded us*. Not sure why the rest could not have been worked on once the miracles and the speed dissipated.
*Not correct phrasing, plenty on here mentioned it over the years. But I hope you know what I mean.
Even at his peak I think it was genuinely accepted, on the fern at least, that he was not a top drawer game manager
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@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
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@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
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@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Seems to run the backline well? I really could not disagree with that more. Our backline has been bloody poor for most of the minutes of most of the games this year. The best bits and the best performances by other backs, including Jordie Barrett, have come when McKenzie has been on.
Robertson probably thinks he's kicked a goal because McKenzie is performing very well off the bench and our last 20 minutes is vastly improved. Of course it has improved when you've put your most influential back there.
The reality is that McKenzie is just a far superior player to BB these days. If they'd stuck with him, by now he'd probably be going great guns as a starting ten - and would undoubtedly be better than the stand still and shovel slop we are getting served up. No AB ten in my watching lifetime has stood still and played at walking pace like we are seeing right now, not even those who were amazing with the boot (late Fox being the closest). It is that which is messing everything up - but then BB's also missing touch from penalties and butchering overlaps.Unless what you look for in a ten is mostly being from Taranaki?
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@reprobate said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Seems to run the backline well? I really could not disagree with that more. Our backline has been bloody poor for most of the minutes of most of the games this year. The best bits and the best performances by other backs, including Jordie Barrett, have come when McKenzie has been on.
Robertson probably thinks he's kicked a goal because McKenzie is performing very well off the bench and our last 20 minutes is vastly improved. Of course it has improved when you've put your most influential back there.
The reality is that McKenzie is just a far superior player to BB these days. If they'd stuck with him, by now he'd probably be going great guns as a starting ten - and would undoubtedly be better than the stand still and shovel slop we are getting served up. No AB ten in my watching lifetime has stood still and played at walking pace like we are seeing right now, not even those who were amazing with the boot (late Fox being the closest). It is that which is messing everything up - but then BB's also missing touch from penalties and butchering overlaps.Unless what you look for in a ten is mostly being from Taranaki?
Gus said exactly this on Breakdown. DMac and the bench have been great bailing us out late. I think it was Goldie that said why do we keep needing to win games late? Knowing the obvious answer
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@Bones said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@ACT-Crusader interesting, I fucking hated Howlett the first few years.
But....his work ethic and general skills were light years ahead of Jordan.
Have I mentioned Lelia Masaga?
Wasn’t he a flash in the pan, though?
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@pakman said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Bones said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@ACT-Crusader interesting, I fucking hated Howlett the first few years.
But....his work ethic and general skills were light years ahead of Jordan.
Have I mentioned Lelia Masaga?
Wasn’t he a flash in the pan, though?
Lelia Tony Corona Masaga played 91 games for the chiefs and had @Nepia on his case for 90 of those, doesn't seem too pan flashy.
As an aside, if I had those middle names, they would definitely be the name I played rugby under.
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@Bones said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@pakman said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Bones said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@ACT-Crusader interesting, I fucking hated Howlett the first few years.
But....his work ethic and general skills were light years ahead of Jordan.
Have I mentioned Lelia Masaga?
Wasn’t he a flash in the pan, though?
Lelia Tony Corona Masaga played 91 games for the chiefs and had @Nepia on his case for 90 of those, doesn't seem too pan flashy.
As an aside, if I had those middle names, they would definitely be the name I played rugby under.
I was actually a fan of Masaga, Hungus Masaga just had a nice ring to it. I think he probably deserved a few more caps.
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@Nepia said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Bones said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@pakman said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Bones said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@ACT-Crusader interesting, I fucking hated Howlett the first few years.
But....his work ethic and general skills were light years ahead of Jordan.
Have I mentioned Lelia Masaga?
Wasn’t he a flash in the pan, though?
Lelia Tony Corona Masaga played 91 games for the chiefs and had @Nepia on his case for 90 of those, doesn't seem too pan flashy.
As an aside, if I had those middle names, they would definitely be the name I played rugby under.
I was actually a fan of Masaga, Hungus Masaga just had a nice ring to it. I think he probably deserved a few more caps.
Hungus Masaga Mango Tango.
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@DurryMexted said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@sparky said in Scotland v All Blacks:
How many bad games can Ardie Savea and Beauden Barrett keep having in Black?
I can't remember any of our players in the past escaping scrutiny for such consistently disappointing performances.
Thats the issue - there is a cognitive dissonance across the whole of NZ (& world) rugby media and consumers - people genuinely watch these guys play and their branding just over rides any actual critical thought about how these guys should be playing
I can just about tolerate Savea for the 1-2 miracle plays he makes per game, particularly given the often 'clutch' nature of them.
But I cannot for the life of me fathom why BB not only gets selected but is immune from any criticism whatsoever. The guy is now at the stage where he literally offers nothing - he can't run, he can't kick, his passing is shit and his defence is also hit and miss. He's basically 38-year old Jonny Sexton without any of the good bits.
What's even more frustrating is that despite doing all of the aforementioned markedly better that BB, DMac isn't trusted with the keys to the team and is seen as this giant flake anytime his performance isn't the rugby equivalent of walking on water.
It's totally baffling - if we are going to accept having a flawed 10, why wouldn't we select the flawed guy who's generally going to make a net positive contribution?
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@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
On what basis is he the best 10 for NZ best rugby at the moment?
What does he bring that no other 10 in NZ brings?
Please do not say "experience" - if you do, you've already lost the argument
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@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Sorry, Dan, you can't just say it's your opinion - you need to tell us why you have that opinion?
What is it about BB's play that leads you to have that opinion?
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Interesting video of Jordan's tracking
147K views · 4.3K reactions | That link up play 😮💨 A lesson in...
That link up play 😮💨 A lesson in staying in the play from Will Jordan 👏
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@Victor-Meldrew really? Standard pass and back up is now a highlight of our outstanding play? Come on man.
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Yeah, that was kinda my point - some of these AB Media highlights are getting a bit OTT. Show interesting stuff and outstanding play by all means but cut down on the self-congratulatory stuff.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Yeah, that was kinda my point - some of these AB Media highlights are getting a bit OTT. Show interesting stuff and outstanding play by all means but cut down on the self-congratulatory stuff.
Oh I get constant YouTube notifications and you're bang on, it's fucking ludicrous - I think one the other day was an over the top title about a lock on a barnstorming run or something, they popped up on someone's shoulder about two metres out with no defenders in front.
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@junior said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Sorry, Dan, you can't just say it's your opinion - you need to tell us why you have that opinion?
What is it about BB's play that leads you to have that opinion?
As I said I think he runs backline well, basically (and maybe wrong) I notice he tends to be the one speaking at breakdowns in play, and he seems to be the one that swings around to change attack etc. Also think he a fairly good defender, in general will put himself in good positions to make a difference. I get pissed at some of his little kicks over the top at times, but do when DMac does them too (and I like DMac too)
@reprobate mate I been on the Jacomb bandwagon for a couple of years, and have posted as such here, not sure he ready for test rugby as yet. I listened to Neil Barnes talking before a Naki game a year or so back, when he said he encouraged Jacomb to stay at Chiefs to have a season or so as back up 10 to learn his craft up another level, and he another I think needs to have a season of running a team at 10 to hone craft of his position when things are going a bit awry in front of him. Still see Jacomb as our 10 after 27 WC.
