Scotland v All Blacks
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@junior said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Sorry, Dan, you can't just say it's your opinion - you need to tell us why you have that opinion?
What is it about BB's play that leads you to have that opinion?
As I said I think he runs backline well, basically (and maybe wrong) I notice he tends to be the one speaking at breakdowns in play, and he seems to be the one that swings around to change attack etc. Also think he a fairly good defender, in general will put himself in good positions to make a difference. I get pissed at some of his little kicks over the top at times, but do when DMac does them too (and I like DMac too)
@reprobate mate I been on the Jacomb bandwagon for a couple of years, and have posted as such here, not sure he ready for test rugby as yet. I listened to Neil Barnes talking before a Naki game a year or so back, when he said he encouraged Jacomb to stay at Chiefs to have a season or so as back up 10 to learn his craft up another level, and he another I think needs to have a season of running a team at 10 to hone craft of his position when things are going a bit awry in front of him. Still see Jacomb as our 10 after 27 WC. -
@junior said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Sorry, Dan, you can't just say it's your opinion - you need to tell us why you have that opinion?
What is it about BB's play that leads you to have that opinion?
He isnt alone , while there is less of it here , I see it a lot in other comments sections, like you tube and instagram
I think there is a large section of people even in the media that see beaudan as some kind of security blanket that can’t be discarded, even when he plays poorly it’s yeah but it’s beaudie , hes better that that, he’s the ex world player of the year
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@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@junior said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Sorry, Dan, you can't just say it's your opinion - you need to tell us why you have that opinion?
What is it about BB's play that leads you to have that opinion?
As I said I think he runs backline well, basically (and maybe wrong) I notice he tends to be the one speaking at breakdowns in play, and he seems to be the one that swings around to change attack etc. Also think he a fairly good defender, in general will put himself in good positions to make a difference. I get pissed at some of his little kicks over the top at times, but do when DMac does them too (and I like DMac too)
@reprobate mate I been on the Jacomb bandwagon for a couple of years, and have posted as such here, not sure he ready for test rugby as yet. I listened to Neil Barnes talking before a Naki game a year or so back, when he said he encouraged Jacomb to stay at Chiefs to have a season or so as back up 10 to learn his craft up another level, and he another I think needs to have a season of running a team at 10 to hone craft of his position when things are going a bit awry in front of him. Still see Jacomb as our 10 after 27 WC.Dan I think you're often on the money but when it comes to Barrett and Jacomb you have a clear Taranaki bias. Nothing wrong with that. We all have our provincial biases.
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@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage.
It's hard for anyone else to state their case when BB plays 10 nearly every test and they refuse to even show interest in developing a third 10.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@junior said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Sorry, Dan, you can't just say it's your opinion - you need to tell us why you have that opinion?
What is it about BB's play that leads you to have that opinion?
He isnt alone , while there is less of it here , I see it a lot in other comments sections, like you tube and instagram
I think there is a large section of people even in the media that see beaudan as some kind of security blanket that can’t be discarded, even when he plays poorly it’s yeah but it’s beaudie , hes better that that, he’s the ex world player of the year
It's weird as hell. He regularly makes mistakes that would see other players crucified. While it's a good thing that he has the experience/composure to not lose the plot when he makes a (yet another) clanger, he is still making them.
His effect in slowing down the backline is hard to watch. If all you do is stand and shovel, the net effect is losing us about 2-3m on the gainline and putting the guy you're passing to in a worse position. The distribution is no better than half of our forwards, and in some ways it is worse, because at least one defender has to commit to them. We would almost always be better off just skip-passing him.
This guy used to be (arguably) the premier running back in world rugby.
Now? He doesn't even run. -
I haven’t turned completely cynical when it comes to the economics of international rugby, but with the influence Beaudie had on securing a major multimillion dollar sponsorship deal and the fact he signed that 4 year deal back in 2023 after he cashed in at Suntory, it all adds up or perhaps it doesn’t…..
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@ACT-Crusader said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I haven’t turned completely cynical when it comes to the economics of international rugby, but with the influence Beaudie had on securing a major multimillion dollar sponsorship deal and the fact he signed that 4 year deal back in 2023 after he cashed in at Suntory, it all adds up or perhaps it doesn’t…..
I'd really hope nothing non-performance factors into it, and it's just a baffling shit piece of selecting.
BB should maybe still be in the squad as a fullback, maybe the 23.
McKenzie speaks reasonably well, seems humble and comes across a nice bloke. He's exciting to watch, he grins while kicking at goal, and he's also david to the many goliaths - I would've thought he is about as marketable as it gets. -
Not exactly a hot take here, but I don't think any of the current 10s running about in NZ rugby will be the next long-term All Blacks playmaker - not Jacomb, not Reihana, not Love.
Historically, NZ's 10s have looked born to the manor from a young age and have been elevated fairly quickly, even if they haven't taken to Test rugby like a duck to water.
Barrett was 21, Cruden was 21, Carter was 21, Evans was 24, Spencer was 20, Mehrtens was 22.
Has Test rugby become more competitive in the last five years? Undoubtedly. But we've still seen most top flyhalves around the world make their international debut at a young age: Farrell was 20, Russell was 21, Ford was 20.
More recently, Marcus Smith was 22, Fin Smith was 21, Prendergast was 21. Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu, who is the closest thing the world's seen to Dan Carter since Dan Carter, was 22.
I think there's a very real chance that the next cab off the ranks isn't even a full-time member of a Super Rugby squad for next year.
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@game_film said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Don’t recall seeing a finish like D-Mac’s before. Would love to hear any suggestions.
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@BerniesCorner said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@game_film said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Don’t recall seeing a finish like D-Mac’s before. Would love to hear any suggestions.
'We've got some pretty quick dudes in our team and I see... George Bridge.'
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@Mr-Fish said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Not exactly a hot take here, but I don't think any of the current 10s running about in NZ rugby will be the next long-term All Blacks playmaker - not Jacomb, not Reihana, not Love.
Historically, NZ's 10s have looked born to the manor from a young age and have been elevated fairly quickly, even if they haven't taken to Test rugby like a duck to water.
Barrett was 21, Cruden was 21, Carter was 21, Evans was 24, Spencer was 20, Mehrtens was 22.
Has Test rugby become more competitive in the last five years? Undoubtedly. But we've still seen most top flyhalves around the world make their international debut at a young age: Farrell was 20, Russell was 21, Ford was 20.
More recently, Marcus Smith was 22, Fin Smith was 21, Prendergast was 21. Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu, who is the closest thing the world's seen to Dan Carter since Dan Carter, was 22.
I think there's a very real chance that the next cab off the ranks isn't even a full-time member of a Super Rugby squad for next year.
I agree. Even taking the age grade 10s I have seen this year into account, I have yet to see a 10 that looks like a decent AB in the making.
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Has to be repeated DMac was playing shit hot at 10 a lot of the time last year including starting vs Ireland on the EOTY tour.
He's ended up as bench super sub since then. WTF. -
@Mr-Fish said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Not exactly a hot take here, but I don't think any of the current 10s running about in NZ rugby will be the next long-term All Blacks playmaker - not Jacomb, not Reihana, not Love.
Historically, NZ's 10s have looked born to the manor from a young age and have been elevated fairly quickly, even if they haven't taken to Test rugby like a duck to water.
Barrett was 21, Cruden was 21, Carter was 21, Evans was 24, Spencer was 20, Mehrtens was 22.
Has Test rugby become more competitive in the last five years? Undoubtedly. But we've still seen most top flyhalves around the world make their international debut at a young age: Farrell was 20, Russell was 21, Ford was 20.
More recently, Marcus Smith was 22, Fin Smith was 21, Prendergast was 21. Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu, who is the closest thing the world's seen to Dan Carter since Dan Carter, was 22.
I think there's a very real chance that the next cab off the ranks isn't even a full-time member of a Super Rugby squad for next year.
You may be right, though I'd say there is a difference with Love (and McKenzie to a lesser extent) in that they have mostly played fullback - and mostly looked to the manor born there.
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@Bovidae said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I saw a comment about Carter retiring from international rugby at 33. Barrett is now 34, and I bet he wants to continue until RWC 2027.
And BB's game was always based on running speed. Carter not so much.
Frankly the AB management need to get real and develop options at 10. I'd rather have a few hiccups now and not in 2027. -
@reprobate said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Mr-Fish said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Not exactly a hot take here, but I don't think any of the current 10s running about in NZ rugby will be the next long-term All Blacks playmaker - not Jacomb, not Reihana, not Love.
Historically, NZ's 10s have looked born to the manor from a young age and have been elevated fairly quickly, even if they haven't taken to Test rugby like a duck to water.
Barrett was 21, Cruden was 21, Carter was 21, Evans was 24, Spencer was 20, Mehrtens was 22.
Has Test rugby become more competitive in the last five years? Undoubtedly. But we've still seen most top flyhalves around the world make their international debut at a young age: Farrell was 20, Russell was 21, Ford was 20.
More recently, Marcus Smith was 22, Fin Smith was 21, Prendergast was 21. Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu, who is the closest thing the world's seen to Dan Carter since Dan Carter, was 22.
I think there's a very real chance that the next cab off the ranks isn't even a full-time member of a Super Rugby squad for next year.
You may be right, though I'd say there is a difference with Love (and McKenzie to a lesser extent) in that they have mostly played fullback - and mostly looked to the manor born there.
I was never a big fan of DMac moving from fullback to 1st 5. I can see why the Chiefs did it given he was close to their best player and you want your best player to have the ball in his hands more often than not, but at fullback is where he’s most dangerous.
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@Mr-Fish unfortunately both Fozzie and Razor were reluctant to really push the boat out and be bold.with some selections, instead just kept on selecting players despite obvious replacements not.being there.
Which one 1 hand is why they played these guys as much, but it also puts a roadblock up.
For Fozzie, we were lucky with Aaron Smiths form.and longevity, but for Razor, every test BB plays is another Dmac doesn't get or Jacomb or Reihana dont either, and while they may not seem ready, some players respond to the .higher level better, but if they never get a chance to.
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@taniwharugby said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Mr-Fish unfortunately both Fozzie and Razor were reluctant to really push the boat out and be bold.with some selections, instead just kept on selecting players despite obvious replacements not.being there.
Which one 1 hand is why they played these guys as much, but it also puts a roadblock up.
For Fozzie, we were lucky with Aaron Smiths form.and longevity, but for Razor, every test BB plays is another Dmac doesn't get or Jacomb or Reihana dont either, and while they may not seem ready, some players respond to the .higher level better, but if they never get a chance to.
And first five of the month in France's top competition, H Plummer (sorry to harp on). So many opportunities to test guys out have been wasted.
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@Mr-Fish said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Not exactly a hot take here, but I don't think any of the current 10s running about in NZ rugby will be the next long-term All Blacks playmaker - not Jacomb, not Reihana, not Love.
Historically, NZ's 10s have looked born to the manor from a young age and have been elevated fairly quickly, even if they haven't taken to Test rugby like a duck to water.
Barrett was 21, Cruden was 21, Carter was 21, Evans was 24, Spencer was 20, Mehrtens was 22.
Has Test rugby become more competitive in the last five years? Undoubtedly. But we've still seen most top flyhalves around the world make their international debut at a young age: Farrell was 20, Russell was 21, Ford was 20.
More recently, Marcus Smith was 22, Fin Smith was 21, Prendergast was 21. Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu, who is the closest thing the world's seen to Dan Carter since Dan Carter, was 22.
I think there's a very real chance that the next cab off the ranks isn't even a full-time member of a Super Rugby squad for next year.
Considering the current conservative, fear based selection mindset of NZ coaches, including All Black coaches, I think the chances of a young first five under 24 getting a gig with the AB's any time in the next 5 years are virtually zero - no matter how good they are.
From what I've seen of Reihana and Love this year, and Plummer last year, they'd all likely do a better job than what BB is doing. None of these guys need to be the next Dan Carter. They just need to be better than the current guy which is BB who has mostly been bumbling and circumspect.
Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu would have never been selected at 20 for the ABs. He probably wouldn't even get a shot now at age 23 as a starter or even on the bench for the 10 role. He would probably be put on the wing for 10 minutes off the bench if he got selected for the ABs match day 23.
Dylan Pledger is 20 and was arguably the best back in NPC this year and he couldn't even get a wider squad place in the AB's XV who lets face it play second rate opposition.
