Scotland v All Blacks
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@Nepia said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Bones said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@pakman said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Bones said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@ACT-Crusader interesting, I fucking hated Howlett the first few years.
But....his work ethic and general skills were light years ahead of Jordan.
Have I mentioned Lelia Masaga?
Wasn’t he a flash in the pan, though?
Lelia Tony Corona Masaga played 91 games for the chiefs and had @Nepia on his case for 90 of those, doesn't seem too pan flashy.
As an aside, if I had those middle names, they would definitely be the name I played rugby under.
I was actually a fan of Masaga, Hungus Masaga just had a nice ring to it. I think he probably deserved a few more caps.
Hungus Masaga Mango Tango.
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@DurryMexted said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@sparky said in Scotland v All Blacks:
How many bad games can Ardie Savea and Beauden Barrett keep having in Black?
I can't remember any of our players in the past escaping scrutiny for such consistently disappointing performances.
Thats the issue - there is a cognitive dissonance across the whole of NZ (& world) rugby media and consumers - people genuinely watch these guys play and their branding just over rides any actual critical thought about how these guys should be playing
I can just about tolerate Savea for the 1-2 miracle plays he makes per game, particularly given the often 'clutch' nature of them.
But I cannot for the life of me fathom why BB not only gets selected but is immune from any criticism whatsoever. The guy is now at the stage where he literally offers nothing - he can't run, he can't kick, his passing is shit and his defence is also hit and miss. He's basically 38-year old Jonny Sexton without any of the good bits.
What's even more frustrating is that despite doing all of the aforementioned markedly better that BB, DMac isn't trusted with the keys to the team and is seen as this giant flake anytime his performance isn't the rugby equivalent of walking on water.
It's totally baffling - if we are going to accept having a flawed 10, why wouldn't we select the flawed guy who's generally going to make a net positive contribution?
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@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
On what basis is he the best 10 for NZ best rugby at the moment?
What does he bring that no other 10 in NZ brings?
Please do not say "experience" - if you do, you've already lost the argument
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@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Sorry, Dan, you can't just say it's your opinion - you need to tell us why you have that opinion?
What is it about BB's play that leads you to have that opinion?
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Interesting video of Jordan's tracking
147K views · 4.3K reactions | That link up play 😮💨 A lesson in...
That link up play 😮💨 A lesson in staying in the play from Will Jordan 👏
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@Victor-Meldrew really? Standard pass and back up is now a highlight of our outstanding play? Come on man.
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Yeah, that was kinda my point - some of these AB Media highlights are getting a bit OTT. Show interesting stuff and outstanding play by all means but cut down on the self-congratulatory stuff.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Yeah, that was kinda my point - some of these AB Media highlights are getting a bit OTT. Show interesting stuff and outstanding play by all means but cut down on the self-congratulatory stuff.
Oh I get constant YouTube notifications and you're bang on, it's fucking ludicrous - I think one the other day was an over the top title about a lock on a barnstorming run or something, they popped up on someone's shoulder about two metres out with no defenders in front.
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@junior said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Sorry, Dan, you can't just say it's your opinion - you need to tell us why you have that opinion?
What is it about BB's play that leads you to have that opinion?
As I said I think he runs backline well, basically (and maybe wrong) I notice he tends to be the one speaking at breakdowns in play, and he seems to be the one that swings around to change attack etc. Also think he a fairly good defender, in general will put himself in good positions to make a difference. I get pissed at some of his little kicks over the top at times, but do when DMac does them too (and I like DMac too)
@reprobate mate I been on the Jacomb bandwagon for a couple of years, and have posted as such here, not sure he ready for test rugby as yet. I listened to Neil Barnes talking before a Naki game a year or so back, when he said he encouraged Jacomb to stay at Chiefs to have a season or so as back up 10 to learn his craft up another level, and he another I think needs to have a season of running a team at 10 to hone craft of his position when things are going a bit awry in front of him. Still see Jacomb as our 10 after 27 WC. -
@junior said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Sorry, Dan, you can't just say it's your opinion - you need to tell us why you have that opinion?
What is it about BB's play that leads you to have that opinion?
He isnt alone , while there is less of it here , I see it a lot in other comments sections, like you tube and instagram
I think there is a large section of people even in the media that see beaudan as some kind of security blanket that can’t be discarded, even when he plays poorly it’s yeah but it’s beaudie , hes better that that, he’s the ex world player of the year
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@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@junior said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Sorry, Dan, you can't just say it's your opinion - you need to tell us why you have that opinion?
What is it about BB's play that leads you to have that opinion?
As I said I think he runs backline well, basically (and maybe wrong) I notice he tends to be the one speaking at breakdowns in play, and he seems to be the one that swings around to change attack etc. Also think he a fairly good defender, in general will put himself in good positions to make a difference. I get pissed at some of his little kicks over the top at times, but do when DMac does them too (and I like DMac too)
@reprobate mate I been on the Jacomb bandwagon for a couple of years, and have posted as such here, not sure he ready for test rugby as yet. I listened to Neil Barnes talking before a Naki game a year or so back, when he said he encouraged Jacomb to stay at Chiefs to have a season or so as back up 10 to learn his craft up another level, and he another I think needs to have a season of running a team at 10 to hone craft of his position when things are going a bit awry in front of him. Still see Jacomb as our 10 after 27 WC.Dan I think you're often on the money but when it comes to Barrett and Jacomb you have a clear Taranaki bias. Nothing wrong with that. We all have our provincial biases.
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@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage.
It's hard for anyone else to state their case when BB plays 10 nearly every test and they refuse to even show interest in developing a third 10.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@junior said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Sorry, Dan, you can't just say it's your opinion - you need to tell us why you have that opinion?
What is it about BB's play that leads you to have that opinion?
He isnt alone , while there is less of it here , I see it a lot in other comments sections, like you tube and instagram
I think there is a large section of people even in the media that see beaudan as some kind of security blanket that can’t be discarded, even when he plays poorly it’s yeah but it’s beaudie , hes better that that, he’s the ex world player of the year
It's weird as hell. He regularly makes mistakes that would see other players crucified. While it's a good thing that he has the experience/composure to not lose the plot when he makes a (yet another) clanger, he is still making them.
His effect in slowing down the backline is hard to watch. If all you do is stand and shovel, the net effect is losing us about 2-3m on the gainline and putting the guy you're passing to in a worse position. The distribution is no better than half of our forwards, and in some ways it is worse, because at least one defender has to commit to them. We would almost always be better off just skip-passing him.
This guy used to be (arguably) the premier running back in world rugby.
Now? He doesn't even run. -
I haven’t turned completely cynical when it comes to the economics of international rugby, but with the influence Beaudie had on securing a major multimillion dollar sponsorship deal and the fact he signed that 4 year deal back in 2023 after he cashed in at Suntory, it all adds up or perhaps it doesn’t…..
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@ACT-Crusader said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I haven’t turned completely cynical when it comes to the economics of international rugby, but with the influence Beaudie had on securing a major multimillion dollar sponsorship deal and the fact he signed that 4 year deal back in 2023 after he cashed in at Suntory, it all adds up or perhaps it doesn’t…..
I'd really hope nothing non-performance factors into it, and it's just a baffling shit piece of selecting.
BB should maybe still be in the squad as a fullback, maybe the 23.
McKenzie speaks reasonably well, seems humble and comes across a nice bloke. He's exciting to watch, he grins while kicking at goal, and he's also david to the many goliaths - I would've thought he is about as marketable as it gets. -
Not exactly a hot take here, but I don't think any of the current 10s running about in NZ rugby will be the next long-term All Blacks playmaker - not Jacomb, not Reihana, not Love.
Historically, NZ's 10s have looked born to the manor from a young age and have been elevated fairly quickly, even if they haven't taken to Test rugby like a duck to water.
Barrett was 21, Cruden was 21, Carter was 21, Evans was 24, Spencer was 20, Mehrtens was 22.
Has Test rugby become more competitive in the last five years? Undoubtedly. But we've still seen most top flyhalves around the world make their international debut at a young age: Farrell was 20, Russell was 21, Ford was 20.
More recently, Marcus Smith was 22, Fin Smith was 21, Prendergast was 21. Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu, who is the closest thing the world's seen to Dan Carter since Dan Carter, was 22.
I think there's a very real chance that the next cab off the ranks isn't even a full-time member of a Super Rugby squad for next year.
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@game_film said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Don’t recall seeing a finish like D-Mac’s before. Would love to hear any suggestions.
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@BerniesCorner said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@game_film said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Don’t recall seeing a finish like D-Mac’s before. Would love to hear any suggestions.
'We've got some pretty quick dudes in our team and I see... George Bridge.'
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@Mr-Fish said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Not exactly a hot take here, but I don't think any of the current 10s running about in NZ rugby will be the next long-term All Blacks playmaker - not Jacomb, not Reihana, not Love.
Historically, NZ's 10s have looked born to the manor from a young age and have been elevated fairly quickly, even if they haven't taken to Test rugby like a duck to water.
Barrett was 21, Cruden was 21, Carter was 21, Evans was 24, Spencer was 20, Mehrtens was 22.
Has Test rugby become more competitive in the last five years? Undoubtedly. But we've still seen most top flyhalves around the world make their international debut at a young age: Farrell was 20, Russell was 21, Ford was 20.
More recently, Marcus Smith was 22, Fin Smith was 21, Prendergast was 21. Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu, who is the closest thing the world's seen to Dan Carter since Dan Carter, was 22.
I think there's a very real chance that the next cab off the ranks isn't even a full-time member of a Super Rugby squad for next year.
I agree. Even taking the age grade 10s I have seen this year into account, I have yet to see a 10 that looks like a decent AB in the making.
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