All Blacks 2025
-
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 Well, it's not often the captain gets dumped - you have to go back to about 1989.
And it's a boring question if you allow Scott to be dumped, since a fair proportion of non-Crusaders fans will advocate for it.
Why not be innovative and have him as the team captain? That doesn't mean he starts every game. Put Codie Taylor at captain when Scott's form isn't good enough.
Here's the issue: As you are explaining it, they should avoid the hard calls because no one has done it for 30 odd years.
And, non Cantab supporters may argue for it, because on form there would little reason for Scott to be thrown back to the starting job if everyone was fit.
But, they aren't - Pat T and Vaaii are out.
So, for this week, it wouldn't be a surprise to see Lord moved back to the bench, and Barrett back in alongside Holland. Darry could be a smokey for a bench role, but that seems hard on Lord.
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 Well, it's not often the captain gets dumped - you have to go back to about 1989.
And it's a boring question if you allow Scott to be dumped, since a fair proportion of non-Crusaders fans will advocate for it.
Why not be innovative and have him as the team captain? That doesn't mean he starts every game. Put Codie Taylor at captain when Scott's form isn't good enough.
Here's the issue: As you are explaining it, they should avoid the hard calls because no one has done it for 30 odd years.
And, non Cantab supporters may argue for it, because on form there would little reason for Scott to be thrown back to the starting job if everyone was fit.
But, they aren't - Pat T and Vaaii are out.
So, for this week, it wouldn't be a surprise to see Lord moved back to the bench, and Barrett back in alongside Holland. Darry could be a smokey for a bench role, but that seems hard on Lord.
Not sure the captaincy can work that way.
Don't know what job you do - but, imagine if your CEO came in and said - your manager's been a bit shit lately, so we're going to send him off to be the filing clerk for a few months and you're in charge.
A couple of months later - he looks like he's recaptured his form. Right - you guys are all back to your old jobs and he's back giving the orders.
I think he's got to be gone - as I think Taine and Reuben were when new regimes came in.
-
-
If SB can recapture his form, then he and Holland with PT on the bench is seriously strong. If he can't recapture that form, then they will need to look for a new captain after the tour. Trouble is, there aren't many obvious options to take over. People have vouched for Ardie, but his decision making is not crash hot, twice he has attempted chip kicks from our own 22 at awful times in the match.
I think we have a couple of future AB captains in Roigard and Sititi, but Sititi got the 2nd season blues (which he is now overcoming), and it'd be too much to put on Roigard's plate right now given his inexperience how dependent we already are on him.
-
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 Well, it's not often the captain gets dumped - you have to go back to about 1989.
And it's a boring question if you allow Scott to be dumped, since a fair proportion of non-Crusaders fans will advocate for it.
Why not be innovative and have him as the team captain? That doesn't mean he starts every game. Put Codie Taylor at captain when Scott's form isn't good enough.
Here's the issue: As you are explaining it, they should avoid the hard calls because no one has done it for 30 odd years.
And, non Cantab supporters may argue for it, because on form there would little reason for Scott to be thrown back to the starting job if everyone was fit.
But, they aren't - Pat T and Vaaii are out.
So, for this week, it wouldn't be a surprise to see Lord moved back to the bench, and Barrett back in alongside Holland. Darry could be a smokey for a bench role, but that seems hard on Lord.
Not sure the captaincy can work that way.
Don't know what job you do - but, imagine if your CEO came in and said - your manager's been a bit shit lately, so we're going to send him off to be the filing clerk for a few months and you're in charge.
A couple of months later - he looks like he's recaptured his form. Right - you guys are all back to your old jobs and he's back giving the orders.
I think he's got to be gone - as I think Taine and Reuben were when new regimes came in.
Chiefs did it well, but I'm not actually suggesting it. The point though is that he may not be able to hold his spot as the captain with the way these younger guys are playing. I hope that the coaches are open enough next year to consider benching him - we can't carry our captain, they have to secure their spot on merit alone.
-
@gt12 I do go back to Steve Hansen's mantra - that experience is important.
It's not everything - but, Steve finally went away from it in 2019 and I reckon it cost him.
Can't carry people forever waiting for them to recapture form, but there's no reason Scott can't get back to his best and he's shown signs at time this year.
I'd be keeping the faith for now and I'm sure they will.
-
Ok Razor.
Pat T has 58 fucking tests, he's been an AB for 11 fucking years.
Vaa'ii has 45 fucking tests, he's not a newbie.
Holland will have more than 30 tests by the time we get to the WC.Experience is not the be all and end all.
Samuel Whitelock debuted in 2010 and started the WC final the following year. -
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 Well, it's not often the captain gets dumped - you have to go back to about 1989.
And it's a boring question if you allow Scott to be dumped, since a fair proportion of non-Crusaders fans will advocate for it.
Aren't there any Crusaders fans who don't prefer Scott B as captain/automatic lock pick?
-
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
If SB can recapture his form, then he and Holland with PT on the bench is seriously strong. If he can't recapture that form, then they will need to look for a new captain after the tour. Trouble is, there aren't many obvious options to take over. People have vouched for Ardie, but his decision making is not crash hot, twice he has attempted chip kicks from our own 22 at awful times in the match.
I think we have a couple of future AB captains in Roigard and Sititi, but Sititi got the 2nd season blues (which he is now overcoming), and it'd be too much to put on Roigard's plate right now given his inexperience how dependent we already are on him.
agree with this.
-
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
I'd be keeping the faith for now and I'm sure they will.
Yes I think they are loyal to him and they'll reckon he'll come right.
-
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 Well, it's not often the captain gets dumped - you have to go back to about 1989.
And it's a boring question if you allow Scott to be dumped, since a fair proportion of non-Crusaders fans will advocate for it.
Aren't there any Crusaders fans who don't prefer Scott B as captain/automatic lock pick?
-
@Snowy said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 Well, it's not often the captain gets dumped - you have to go back to about 1989.
And it's a boring question if you allow Scott to be dumped, since a fair proportion of non-Crusaders fans will advocate for it.
Aren't there any Crusaders fans who don't prefer Scott B as captain/automatic lock pick?
That's probably because there are bugger all of us on here.
For what it's worth, I think being captain has harmed his game. And captaincy doesn't seem a natural fit for him.
-
@hikastags said in All Blacks 2025:
Lineout has regressed over the season
Maybe because Lomax is a better lifter than Newell ? Having tall props sure helps a lot.
-
-
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
It's not complicated. Pick our best players and regain our steel. And our results will improve by 10-15 points per game.
I know I sound like an insufferable cliche generator these days.
But there are no men in the team.
We are a terribly nice bunch of clean shaven good looking lads.
The atmosphere is collegiate, lacks edge, no biff, no puffed up chests. Very passive.
-
Time to cast the net ahead. How do you fix this? There is so much wrong with this team when you dig down into it. Who knows who will be coach, but here's my two sense worth.
Captain
Scott Barrett is a problem - but this is a problem which has plagued the All Blacks for the best part of eight years. Since give or take the end of 2018, for the best part of the period our captain has arguably only been in the team because he is well, the captain. Read was done by 2019, Cane struggled for consistent form from 2020-2023, and Scott Barrett has never really grasped it. This needs to be nipped in the bud. You could go Codie Taylor or Ardie Savea, but I just think this team is screaming out for something totally fresh. I'm not in the environment, but I'd be looking at co-captains. One issue we have, is there are few ABs right now who are guaranteed starters, who are also going to play most of the game. It could be a risk, but I'd go with Tupou Vaa'i and Jordie Barrett as co-captains.With a new captain instilled, we need to focus on a harder edge, so how does this effect the playing squad?
Front Row
Prop is one position where we are fine. All the props we have used this year outside of Lomax have been good, and Lomax is presumably just a form issue. Codie Taylor still has plenty of value as the starting hooker, but I think it is all to play for in behind him. Samisoni Taukei'aho is a good ball carrier, but his lineout and scrummaging work doesn't really seem to be up to scratch. Given Aumua can't stay fit, I think it is time to find out how good George Bell really is. Whether he was brought in prematurely is irrelevant now. FWIW, I would start him next week, but going forward, he is surely a big part of the All Blacks.Lock
Having lost the captaincy, I think the writing is on the rule for Scooter in this regime. Fabian Holland, Tupou Vaa'i and Patrick Tuipulotu have vastly outplayed him this year, and Josh Lord has arguably been the player of the Northern Tour. That's your four locks, and if you should need a fifth one if Vaa'i is required on the blindside, that is Sam DarryLoose Forward
We need to be a tougher in the loose I feel. I think Vaa'i offers that hard edge, so in the absence of a better option, I'd play him on the blindside. Lakai shifts to seven, with Sititi at eight. How to bulk out the squad? Ardie definitely still of value off the bench, so you need two more - a blindside and another number eight. I can't understand why Lio-Willie was sidelined - he come back in as the other number eight. We are on the lookout for a big fucker to do the hard yards at six. Flanders, Howden, Haig, Stodart shape as the ones to watch through Super for me. Parker has been a massive let down, and Kirifi probably never should have been picked in the first place. Jacobson can't stay fit so he is moved on tooHalfback
Cam Roigard has been the All Blacks best player this year, but at what stage does his fitness start to become a bit of a concern? Regardless, he is clearly number one. The current retards get what they deserve for backing Ratima and Christie. The other two next year should be whichever two of Pledger, Fakatava and Hotham have the best Super campaigns.First Five
Beauden Barrett has to go. Has to go. He is simply too inconsistent. I think in the absence of an obvious better option, for the moment you'd have to lean for McKenzie at 10, but also in a remoddelled ABs, you could opt for a different style of 10. I remain unconvinced in Jacomb's kicking abilities, and Reihana is a bit beige and I think would come unstuck when challenged with the pace of test rugby. One to follow across Super Rugby.The Rest of the Backline
Jordie Barrett has been instilled as captain, and remains an obvious starter - but where? Lets kill two birds with one stone. Will Jordan is the world's best winger, but he isn't a top-line playmaker. We also can't catch the high ball. Move Jordie back to 15. That leaves spaces at 12, 13 and on the left wing. I think Quinn Tupaea has plenty to offer with a consistent run, so he plays at 12.For mine, Proctor has been the letdown of the year, and is not worth persisting with.
Tavatavanawai and Fainga'anuku both lack the top line pace to be starting wingers, and lack the direction to be your starting centre, but they are the ideal players to have on the bench to provide punch.
ALB is done, and needs to be moved on. Ioane is also past his best, but is our best defensive centre currently available. I'd be looking at him and Brayden Ennor, who should have been brought back into the fold for this end of year tour.
As for the other winger spot, you are looking for a lethal left winger. Caleb Tangitau is that guy. He might have deficiencies, but there is no substitute for pure pace and power. Carter is workmanlike, but lacks X-Factor for me.
I like Narawa and Clarke as squad options.
There will obviously be guys through Super Rugby who put their hand up, and I think at hooker and in the midfield the chance is really there for someone to bolt through the door. I think they will take 43 players on the big tour, and here is a potential new-look squad. Some of the squad picks are wildly speculative, but you get the idea.
A potential new look All Blacks to tour South Africa next year
- Ethan de Groot
- Codie Taylor
- Fletcher Newell
- Josh Lord
- Fabian Holland
- Tupou Vaa'i (c)
- Peter Lakai
- Wallace Sititi
- Cam Roigard
- Damian McKenzie
- Caleb Tangitau
- Quinn Tupaea
- Brayden Ennor
- Will Jordan
- Jordie Barrett (c)
- George Bell
- Tamaiti Williams
- Pasilio Tosi
- Patrick Tuipulotu
- Ardie Savea
- Dylan Pledger
- Ruben Love
- Timoci Tavatavanawai
Spare Props: Ollie Norris, Tyrel Lomax, Josh Fusitua, George Dyer
Spare Hookers: Samisoni Taukei'aho, Jack Taylor
Spare Locks: Sam Darry, Josh Beehre
Spare Loose Forwards: Will Stodart, Dalton Papalii, Christian Lio-Willie, Devan Flanders
Spare Halfbacks: Noah Hotham, Folau Fakatava
Spare First Five: Josh Jacomb
Spare Midfielders: Dallas McLeod, Rieko Ioane
Spare Outside Backs: Caleb Clarke, Emoni Narawa, Jacob Ratumaitavuki Kneepkens
