All Blacks 2025
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders that's all well and good, but....pored.
Pored? Or bored?
Maybe in this instance it's boerd
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Razor needs to be put on notice by losing all his assistants except Ryan
The list of assistant coaches who would be willing to work with Robertson must be low. He's exhausted nearly everyone from the Crusaders system.
I'd be more worried about the people who've been sounded out to be Assistants and run for the hills.
Would you want "Assistant AB Coach under Scott Robinson" on your CV right now?
Sub-assistant coach under Scott Hansen?
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
Part of the reason why Rassie is so admired is that he put in place the systems that have elevated SA to the heights they are now at. He poured over the structural issues in Bok rugby as the General Manager: High Performance teams in 2012, before leaving for Munster and returning as the Director of rugby and Bok coach.
He had a forensic understanding of the talent that was available and also the bottlenecks that were stopping them from reaching their potential. He also oversaw a major revamp of the coaching structures and pathways. His legacy is so much more than just the Boks and WC triumphs and will likely last for a while after he calls it a day.
Henry did this for the ABs in 2004. He implemented the player led approach and massively changed the way that super rugby coaches worked together to develop players for the benefit of the ABs and developed the playing style the ABs were famed for (combining tough forward play with smarts and players who could solves issues as they unfolded with mental strength).
Do NZ have someone like Henry now? Wayne Smith is a creative, out of the box thinker - he isn’t the systems/process guy NZ needs. He works best in the right structure.
Where can we find details of what he actually did and changed that you talk about?
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
Part of the reason why Rassie is so admired is that he put in place the systems that have elevated SA to the heights they are now at. He poured over the structural issues in Bok rugby as the General Manager: High Performance teams in 2012, before leaving for Munster and returning as the Director of rugby and Bok coach.
He had a forensic understanding of the talent that was available and also the bottlenecks that were stopping them from reaching their potential. He also oversaw a major revamp of the coaching structures and pathways. His legacy is so much more than just the Boks and WC triumphs and will likely last for a while after he calls it a day.
Henry did this for the ABs in 2004. He implemented the player led approach and massively changed the way that super rugby coaches worked together to develop players for the benefit of the ABs and developed the playing style the ABs were famed for (combining tough forward play with smarts and players who could solves issues as they unfolded with mental strength).
Do NZ have someone like Henry now? Wayne Smith is a creative, out of the box thinker - he isn’t the systems/process guy NZ needs. He works best in the right structure.
Good post.
Forensic is the right word. The thing about Rassie is the guy is so meticulous and so detail oriented.
Like, how he noticed that the French did not scrum the Boks much in a match so in the next one they took a scrum from a mark in their own 22.. Those type of innovations show his attention to detail around everything, including the laws. Even that lineout gimmick came from watching schools rugby. Rassie pays attention.
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I wonder how much of a problem Scott Hansen is?
With both Leon and Holland quitting, which I don't think we have seen before, there has to be something going on.
Wonder if either or someone else involved will ever spill the beans.Whatever is going on, obviously something has to change, but we all know after 2 years of this crap, nothing is going to change.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders that's all well and good, but....pored.
Pored? Or bored?
Maybe in this instance it's boerd
Sublime.
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@Darren said in All Blacks 2025:
I wonder how much of a problem Scott Hansen is?
With both Leon and Holland quitting, which I don't think we have seen before, there has to be something going on.
Wonder if either or someone else involved will ever spill the beans.Whatever is going on, obviously something has to change, but we all know after 2 years of this crap, nothing is going to change.
He has a bad case of small man syndrome methinks
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@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
Still nothing compared to the media firestorm Fozzie had to face
I think that's largely because Foster took over a good team, whereas Razor took over a bit of a shit show. It's deterioration vs going nowhere.
Cue someone saying 'oh we should have won the WC final with 14 men but for the ref'... yeah nah bullshit, we were crap and the good performances were the outliers. -
@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
Still nothing compared to the media firestorm Fozzie had to face
I think that's largely because Foster took over a good team, whereas Razor took over a bit of a shit show. It's deterioration vs going nowhere.
Cue someone saying 'oh we should have won the WC final with 14 men but for the ref'... yeah nah bullshit, we were crap and the good performances were the outliers.I'd argue that the team Fozzie inherited were already on the way down as demonstrated by our 2019 loss. I think Fozz got a lot of shit because there was fatigue for the outgoing coaching group by that time, and he didn't seem like he had the credentials for the HC gig
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@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
Still nothing compared to the media firestorm Fozzie had to face
I think that's largely because Foster took over a good team, whereas Razor took over a bit of a shit show. It's deterioration vs going nowhere.
Cue someone saying 'oh we should have won the WC final with 14 men but for the ref'... yeah nah bullshit, we were crap and the good performances were the outliers.I'd argue that the team Fozzie inherited were already on the way down as demonstrated by our 2019 loss. I think Fozz got a lot of shit because there was fatigue for the outgoing coaching group by that time, and he didn't see like he had the credentials for the HC gig
Maybe on the way down, but we definitely got a lot worse under his coaching.
You could argue we have got worse under Robertson too. % results are probably similar, but our losses are probably worse.
Regardless, Foster probably suffered comparatively in the media from expectations being higher at that time is my point. -
@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
Still nothing compared to the media firestorm Fozzie had to face
I think that's largely because Foster took over a good team, whereas Razor took over a bit of a shit show. It's deterioration vs going nowhere.
Cue someone saying 'oh we should have won the WC final with 14 men but for the ref'... yeah nah bullshit, we were crap and the good performances were the outliers.I'd argue that the team Fozzie inherited were already on the way down as demonstrated by our 2019 loss. I think Fozz got a lot of shit because there was fatigue for the outgoing coaching group by that time, and he didn't see like he had the credentials for the HC gig
Maybe on the way down, but we definitely got a lot worse under his coaching.
You could argue we have got worse under Robertson too. % results are probably similar, but our losses are probably worse.
Regardless, Foster probably suffered comparatively in the media from expectations being higher at that time is my point.We were spoilt after years of winning well
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
This thing about Love not being fast enough seems odd to me and seems to be cropping up more and more. He's certainly never looked to lack for pace and I'd be interested in what express fullbacks other top tier nations have (outside SA).
He doesn't look particularly quick to me. Quick enough to play fullback absolutely, but quick enough to dominate the AB jersey for 6-8 years and be best in the world, maybe not - whereas I think there is a chance he could do that at 10.
Probably more important is that while we start BB, there's a '10 is where the gaping hole is' factor. But now I'm on board your anti-Jordan train, fuck it why not: Love for fullback.
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@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
Still nothing compared to the media firestorm Fozzie had to face
I think that's largely because Foster took over a good team, whereas Razor took over a bit of a shit show. It's deterioration vs going nowhere.
Cue someone saying 'oh we should have won the WC final with 14 men but for the ref'... yeah nah bullshit, we were crap and the good performances were the outliers.I'd argue that the team Fozzie inherited were already on the way down as demonstrated by our 2019 loss. I think Fozz got a lot of shit because there was fatigue for the outgoing coaching group by that time, and he didn't seem like he had the credentials for the HC gig
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
Still nothing compared to the media firestorm Fozzie had to face
I think that's largely because Foster took over a good team, whereas Razor took over a bit of a shit show. It's deterioration vs going nowhere.
Cue someone saying 'oh we should have won the WC final with 14 men but for the ref'... yeah nah bullshit, we were crap and the good performances were the outliers.I'd argue that the team Fozzie inherited were already on the way down as demonstrated by our 2019 loss. I think Fozz got a lot of shit because there was fatigue for the outgoing coaching group by that time, and he didn't seem like he had the credentials for the HC gig
That is disgusting revisionism
