All Blacks 2025
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Nothing to suggest Robertson hasn't got the people he wanted from the start, but with the shambles that is NZR, who knows?
Yes there is, he wanted Tony Brown. You can find sources online.
If we wanted Tony Brown, they should have chosen Jamie Joseph. The fact that Brown went to SA probably says a lot about how other coaches - outside the Crusaders - feel about working with Razor.
My concern is who they could get to come in who would actually be better than what we have...
It's well known that Razor rejected any other role than Head Coach with his team.
Although I believe we need new assistants and we do need change, I'm not sure that we should be looking to change over the assistants - will a new attack coach with no international experience be any better amongst this team than what we have?
The correct strategic choice for the new CEO of NZRU is to do a complete evaluation of the current team.
My recall is Tony Brown believed accepting would not be loyal to Joseph, don't know what he actually thought of Razor et al.
But then he went to work for the Boks...Tony Brown and Joe Scmidt. have both actively sought to hurt NZ rugby and the All Blacks by working to get high level opponents to the level they can beat us when their were roles on offer in NZ rugby. Can't understand why so many NZ rugby fans have any respect for this. They are not they answer.
Vern Cotter like Graham Henry only coached also rans who where no real threat to the All Blacks, same with Jamie Joseph. These are the guys we should be looking to not a couple of mercenaries who sell out to the highest bidder.
That’s absolute fucking horseshit
That’s on NZRFU not the individuals
The best aspire to play for the best teams, coach the best teams, beat the best teams, and be the best
That is horseshit when it comes the to the All Blacks and NZ rugby. For a century and more our game was built on people who would never turn their back on their country were willing to sacrifice and give their all to the jersey and when it no longer needed them they retreated back to their province and were happy to be stalwarts of their area still supporting the All Blacks and helping the game at the lower levels. Since we started accepting your philosophy we have gone to shit and other teams have improved off what our mercenaries are willing to sell them.
You wouldn’t have won two RWCs if two of your boys hadn’t come to Wales
Like I said also rans who are no real threat.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Nothing to suggest Robertson hasn't got the people he wanted from the start, but with the shambles that is NZR, who knows?
Yes there is, he wanted Tony Brown. You can find sources online.
If we wanted Tony Brown, they should have chosen Jamie Joseph. The fact that Brown went to SA probably says a lot about how other coaches - outside the Crusaders - feel about working with Razor.
My concern is who they could get to come in who would actually be better than what we have...
It's well known that Razor rejected any other role than Head Coach with his team.
Although I believe we need new assistants and we do need change, I'm not sure that we should be looking to change over the assistants - will a new attack coach with no international experience be any better amongst this team than what we have?
The correct strategic choice for the new CEO of NZRU is to do a complete evaluation of the current team.
My recall is Tony Brown believed accepting would not be loyal to Joseph, don't know what he actually thought of Razor et al.
But then he went to work for the Boks...Tony Brown and Joe Scmidt. have both actively sought to hurt NZ rugby and the All Blacks by working to get high level opponents to the level they can beat us when their were roles on offer in NZ rugby. Can't understand why so many NZ rugby fans have any respect for this. They are not they answer.
Vern Cotter like Graham Henry only coached also rans who where no real threat to the All Blacks, same with Jamie Joseph. These are the guys we should be looking to not a couple of mercenaries who sell out to the highest bidder.
That’s absolute fucking horseshit
That’s on NZRFU not the individuals
The best aspire to play for the best teams, coach the best teams, beat the best teams, and be the best
That is horseshit when it comes the to the All Blacks and NZ rugby. For a century and more our game was built on people who would never turn their back on their country were willing to sacrifice and give their all to the jersey and when it no longer needed them they retreated back to their province and were happy to be stalwarts of their area still supporting the All Blacks and helping the game at the lower levels. Since we started accepting your philosophy we have gone to shit and other teams have improved off what our mercenaries are willing to sell them.
You wouldn’t have won two RWCs if two of your boys hadn’t come to Wales
Upvote for making me laugh
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Nothing to suggest Robertson hasn't got the people he wanted from the start, but with the shambles that is NZR, who knows?
Yes there is, he wanted Tony Brown. You can find sources online.
If we wanted Tony Brown, they should have chosen Jamie Joseph. The fact that Brown went to SA probably says a lot about how other coaches - outside the Crusaders - feel about working with Razor.
My concern is who they could get to come in who would actually be better than what we have...
It's well known that Razor rejected any other role than Head Coach with his team.
Although I believe we need new assistants and we do need change, I'm not sure that we should be looking to change over the assistants - will a new attack coach with no international experience be any better amongst this team than what we have?
The correct strategic choice for the new CEO of NZRU is to do a complete evaluation of the current team.
My recall is Tony Brown believed accepting would not be loyal to Joseph, don't know what he actually thought of Razor et al.
But then he went to work for the Boks...Tony Brown and Joe Scmidt. have both actively sought to hurt NZ rugby and the All Blacks by working to get high level opponents to the level they can beat us when their were roles on offer in NZ rugby. Can't understand why so many NZ rugby fans have any respect for this. They are not they answer.
Vern Cotter like Graham Henry only coached also rans who where no real threat to the All Blacks, same with Jamie Joseph. These are the guys we should be looking to not a couple of mercenaries who sell out to the highest bidder.
That’s absolute fucking horseshit
That’s on NZRFU not the individuals
The best aspire to play for the best teams, coach the best teams, beat the best teams, and be the best
That is horseshit when it comes the to the All Blacks and NZ rugby. For a century and more our game was built on people who would never turn their back on their country were willing to sacrifice and give their all to the jersey and when it no longer needed them they retreated back to their province and were happy to be stalwarts of their area still supporting the All Blacks and helping the game at the lower levels. Since we started accepting your philosophy we have gone to shit and other teams have improved off what our mercenaries are willing to sell them.
You wouldn’t have won two RWCs if two of your boys hadn’t come to Wales
There is a big difference between coaching Wales Scotland or Japan and Brown helping the Sprinkboks and Schmidt helping Ireland and Australia.
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Nothing to suggest Robertson hasn't got the people he wanted from the start, but with the shambles that is NZR, who knows?
Yes there is, he wanted Tony Brown. You can find sources online.
If we wanted Tony Brown, they should have chosen Jamie Joseph. The fact that Brown went to SA probably says a lot about how other coaches - outside the Crusaders - feel about working with Razor.
My concern is who they could get to come in who would actually be better than what we have...
It's well known that Razor rejected any other role than Head Coach with his team.
Although I believe we need new assistants and we do need change, I'm not sure that we should be looking to change over the assistants - will a new attack coach with no international experience be any better amongst this team than what we have?
The correct strategic choice for the new CEO of NZRU is to do a complete evaluation of the current team.
My recall is Tony Brown believed accepting would not be loyal to Joseph, don't know what he actually thought of Razor et al.
But then he went to work for the Boks...Tony Brown and Joe Scmidt. have both actively sought to hurt NZ rugby and the All Blacks by working to get high level opponents to the level they can beat us when their were roles on offer in NZ rugby. Can't understand why so many NZ rugby fans have any respect for this. They are not they answer.
Vern Cotter like Graham Henry only coached also rans who where no real threat to the All Blacks, same with Jamie Joseph. These are the guys we should be looking to not a couple of mercenaries who sell out to the highest bidder.
That’s absolute fucking horseshit
That’s on NZRFU not the individuals
The best aspire to play for the best teams, coach the best teams, beat the best teams, and be the best
That is horseshit when it comes the to the All Blacks and NZ rugby. For a century and more our game was built on people who would never turn their back on their country were willing to sacrifice and give their all to the jersey and when it no longer needed them they retreated back to their province and were happy to be stalwarts of their area still supporting the All Blacks and helping the game at the lower levels. Since we started accepting your philosophy we have gone to shit and other teams have improved off what our mercenaries are willing to sell them.
As @MiketheSnow has pointed out, NZ benefits hugely by our coaches working overseas for other teams. There's a reason Foster wanted Schmidt from day 1 and we all saw the improvements when he finally got him.
The real issue is why people like Tony Brown, Joe Schmidt, Enoka (and probably others we don't know about) seem to want nothing to do with coaching the All Blacks. No one is going to expose themselves to the crap and lack of support that NZR has dished up in recent years
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
There is a big difference between coaching Wales Scotland or Japan and Brown helping the Sprinkboks and Schmidt helping Ireland and Australia.
Schmidt and Brown don't have NZR as their employers?
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No Schmidt has ultimately been a failure with the Wallabies and i seem to remember us getting a thrashing similar to Wellington at Twickenham by the boks with him ensconced in the All Black setup like you want him. Also in case you missed it we lost the 2023 RWC losing our first ever pool match as well.
Tony Brown is taking credit for alot of Rassies work. When he was handed the keys Schmidts woeful Wallabies destroyed them at home. Since then Rassie has returned to their traditional strength of strangling opposition teams to death. Tony Browns is as over rated as Schmidt They are unsuitable for the All Blacks in more than one way and probably know it.
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Holland resigning is already a move in the right direction. I would get Vern Cotter into the setup and give him the chief selector role. If any of the remaining current setup don't like it they can follow Holland out the door and that should save NZR from any big payouts for terminating their contracts early.
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
No Schmidt has ultimately been a failure with the Wallabies and i seem to remember us getting a thrashing similar to Wellington at Twickenham by the boks with him ensconced in the All Black setup like you want him. Also in case you missed it we lost the 2023 RWC losing our first ever pool match as well.
Tony Brown is taking credit for alot of Rassies work. When he was handed the keys Schmidts woeful Wallabies destroyed them at home. Since then Rassie has returned to their traditional strength of strangling opposition teams to death. Tony Browns is as over rated as Schmidt They are unsuitable for the All Blacks in more than one way and probably know it.
Perhaps Schmidt is a reasonable coach, which begs the question how poor the Wallabies would be without him.
I've always been impressed by Brown's coaching philosophy and it's entirely possible that the Springboks didn't implement the game plan adequately. Anyone not delusional knows you can't go wide without earning the right to do so first.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Nothing to suggest Robertson hasn't got the people he wanted from the start, but with the shambles that is NZR, who knows?
Yes there is, he wanted Tony Brown. You can find sources online.
If we wanted Tony Brown, they should have chosen Jamie Joseph. The fact that Brown went to SA probably says a lot about how other coaches - outside the Crusaders - feel about working with Razor.
My concern is who they could get to come in who would actually be better than what we have...
It's well known that Razor rejected any other role than Head Coach with his team.
Although I believe we need new assistants and we do need change, I'm not sure that we should be looking to change over the assistants - will a new attack coach with no international experience be any better amongst this team than what we have?
The correct strategic choice for the new CEO of NZRU is to do a complete evaluation of the current team.
My recall is Tony Brown believed accepting would not be loyal to Joseph, don't know what he actually thought of Razor et al.
But then he went to work for the Boks...Tony Brown and Joe Scmidt. have both actively sought to hurt NZ rugby and the All Blacks by working to get high level opponents to the level they can beat us when their were roles on offer in NZ rugby. Can't understand why so many NZ rugby fans have any respect for this. They are not they answer.
Vern Cotter like Graham Henry only coached also rans who where no real threat to the All Blacks, same with Jamie Joseph. These are the guys we should be looking to not a couple of mercenaries who sell out to the highest bidder.
That’s absolute fucking horseshit
That’s on NZRFU not the individuals
The best aspire to play for the best teams, coach the best teams, beat the best teams, and be the best
That is horseshit when it comes the to the All Blacks and NZ rugby. For a century and more our game was built on people who would never turn their back on their country were willing to sacrifice and give their all to the jersey and when it no longer needed them they retreated back to their province and were happy to be stalwarts of their area still supporting the All Blacks and helping the game at the lower levels. Since we started accepting your philosophy we have gone to shit and other teams have improved off what our mercenaries are willing to sell them.
As @MiketheSnow has pointed out, NZ benefits hugely by our coaches working overseas for other teams. There's a reason Foster wanted Schmidt from day 1 and we all saw the improvements when he finally got him.
The real issue is why people like Tony Brown, Joe Schmidt, Enoka (and probably others we don't know about) seem to want nothing to do with coaching the All Blacks. No one is going to expose themselves to the crap and lack of support that NZR has dished up in recent years
I think in the case of Brown to be fair it is simply doubt to an undivided loyalty to Jamie Joseph - which is a credit to him.
I have no doubt that the reason he is yet to extend past 2027 with the Boks, is because he would want to be involved in a JJ All Black setup, or at the very least would not want to coach against him.
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@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.The end of season review may be brutal. Interested to know if there are clear factions in the squad. Robertson should be under immense pressure if that is the case. No elite team can deliver if the coaches and players aren’t fully bought in.
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.The end of season review may be brutal.
It should be. It should also be done in private. Let's not have any of the briefings and airing of bad blood we've had in the past.
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JK really upset here I thought he was going to cry at about the 10-11 minute mark. These guys are usually just taking the piss out of each other, I barely watch this pod as a result, but all of them seem genuinely concerned.. There has to be talk out there for him to be this upset.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.The end of season review may be brutal.
It should be. It should also be done in private. Let's not have any of the briefings and airing of bad blood we've had in the past.
Agreed. Have to hope that Kirk hires a CEO that wrestles control from the marketing department and puts the high performance team back in charge.
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@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Interesting. So I assume that's another Blues player off overseas then? I remember you saying last year that Razor had ghosted him.
Things really do sound like they're getting ugly behind the scenes and just in time for a tour of SA as well.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Interesting. So I assume that's another Blues player off overseas then? I remember you saying last year that Razor had ghosted him.
Things really do sound like they're getting ugly behind the scenes and just in time for a tour of SA as well.
I get you might be pissed off but the sense of entitlement for a fringe All Black player to do that is a tad pathetic. Can you imagine anyone in any other serious job behaving like that?
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Interesting. So I assume that's another Blues player off overseas then? I remember you saying last year that Razor had ghosted him.
Things really do sound like they're getting ugly behind the scenes and just in time for a tour of SA as well.
I get you might be pissed off but the sense of entitlement for a fringe All Black player to do that is a tad pathetic. Can you imagine anyone in any other serious job behaving like that?
Well, I've walked away from business clients as being associated with them would be bad for my business/career prospects.
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.The end of season review may be brutal.
It should be. It should also be done in private. Let's not have any of the briefings and airing of bad blood we've had in the past.
Agreed. Have to hope that Kirk hires a CEO that wrestles control from the marketing department and puts the high performance team back in charge.
It's pretty key. The people who's names have been mentioned look OK and are from outside the environment.
Kirk's a smart boy in Whineray's league so there's a good chance
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Interesting. So I assume that's another Blues player off overseas then? I remember you saying last year that Razor had ghosted him.
Things really do sound like they're getting ugly behind the scenes and just in time for a tour of SA as well.
I get you might be pissed off but the sense of entitlement for a fringe All Black player to do that is a tad pathetic. Can you imagine anyone in any other serious job behaving like that?
From the outside looking in, yeah, I'd agree, but I don't know what's happened behind the scenes and it must have been pretty bad for it to come to that?
Similar to the Silver Ferns/Noelene Taurua saga. Everyone's jumped on Taurua's side, but I'm sure there's a lot more to it as there are always 2 sides to every story.
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I agree in principle with this. But, the only thing keeping people here is the chance to be an AB.
You can make far more money overseas, with far less pressure, and be treated very very well.
So, if you deem the environment to be toxic, and believe that the road back is blocked, and have a young family... I can easily see why someone would choose to stay out of the environment.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating; Paps is likely on a pretty good contract now, but that won't last without further selection. So if he buggers off overseas - and he would command a very good contract halfway between a WC - we may look back at this differently.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Interesting. So I assume that's another Blues player off overseas then? I remember you saying last year that Razor had ghosted him.
Things really do sound like they're getting ugly behind the scenes and just in time for a tour of SA as well.
I get you might be pissed off but the sense of entitlement for a fringe All Black player to do that is a tad pathetic. Can you imagine anyone in any other serious job behaving like that?
Well, I've walked away from business clients as being associated with them would be bad for my business/career prospects.
Yes but I’m not sure the two are comparable. One is a smart business decision, the other is behaving like a brat. Dalton is a good player but he doesn’t have the personal accolades to be demanding anything from anyone
