All Blacks 2025
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Interesting. So I assume that's another Blues player off overseas then? I remember you saying last year that Razor had ghosted him.
Things really do sound like they're getting ugly behind the scenes and just in time for a tour of SA as well.
I get you might be pissed off but the sense of entitlement for a fringe All Black player to do that is a tad pathetic. Can you imagine anyone in any other serious job behaving like that?
Well, I've walked away from business clients as being associated with them would be bad for my business/career prospects.
Yes but I’m not sure the two are comparable. One is a smart business decision, the other is behaving like a brat. Dalton is a good player but he doesn’t have the personal accolades to be demanding anything from anyone
Here's another way of looking at it. How has the AB coach managed to piss off a fringe AB off to the point he turns down selection
Reeks of Mitchell/Deans man management issues
He was happy to cash his when Foster had him in and out of the squad? And Fosters environment seemed no less toxic.
He was behind the AB captain under Foz.
Now guys who don't play a single test all season get picked in every squad ahead of him (Jacobson).
The players stood up for Foster and demanded that Robinson not sack him.
So they should. Anyone with any ounce of self respect would back their coach when their backs are against the wall
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Lots of opinions about players on here. But the facts suggest Razor has alienated players that may have been able to help this team. I'm not Blues fan, but they won SR and the player of the year can't even make the squad. Even worse he gets his abilities questioned by the AB coach on the record. That's just one example
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
I agree in principle with this. But, the only thing keeping people here is the chance to be an AB.
You can make far more money overseas, with far less pressure, and be treated very very well.
So, if you deem the environment to be toxic, and believe that the road back is blocked, and have a young family... I can easily see why someone would choose to stay out of the environment.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating; Paps is likely on a pretty good contract now, but that won't last without further selection. So if he buggers off overseas - and he would command a very good contract halfway between a WC - we may look back at this differently.
I agree. If your priority is money and family, go overseas. But you do that like an adult. You say, Listen, thanks but I’m priorities long term financial success for my family and I think that’s best done elsewhere. Not throwing your toys because you and your mates (who really aren’t flash enough to behaving like this) dont get picked.
You speak like you know something. If not you can only presume like the rest of us. But there seems to be a lot of smoke emanating from numerous sources all of a sudden. And where there's smoke there's often fire. Trust is a two way street, and if these players feel trust is lacking it isn't unreasonable for them to want no part of a toxic situation
I’m not remotely implying I know anything. I’m just reading what’s been said here and the odd consensus that this is appropriate behaviour from a professional. That’s all I’m commenting on. The behaviour from a few blues players for their justifiable or unjustifiable lack of selection has been particularly childish. And if you behave like that when things don’t go your way, I’m not entirely sure why anyone is giving them any sympathy
Clearly you believe Razor and his team have acted honorably. I'm not so sure
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Dalton is a good player but he doesn’t have the personal accolades to be demanding anything from anyone
What is he demanding? Being treated with respect?
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
I agree in principle with this. But, the only thing keeping people here is the chance to be an AB.
You can make far more money overseas, with far less pressure, and be treated very very well.
So, if you deem the environment to be toxic, and believe that the road back is blocked, and have a young family... I can easily see why someone would choose to stay out of the environment.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating; Paps is likely on a pretty good contract now, but that won't last without further selection. So if he buggers off overseas - and he would command a very good contract halfway between a WC - we may look back at this differently.
I agree. If your priority is money and family, go overseas. But you do that like an adult. You say, Listen, thanks but I’m priorities long term financial success for my family and I think that’s best done elsewhere. Not throwing your toys because you and your mates (who really aren’t flash enough to behaving like this) dont get picked.
You speak like you know something. If not you can only presume like the rest of us. But there seems to be a lot of smoke emanating from numerous sources all of a sudden. And where there's smoke there's often fire. Trust is a two way street, and if these players feel trust is lacking it isn't unreasonable for them to want no part of a toxic situation
I’m not remotely implying I know anything. I’m just reading what’s been said here and the odd consensus that this is appropriate behaviour from a professional. That’s all I’m commenting on. The behaviour from a few blues players for their justifiable or unjustifiable lack of selection has been particularly childish. And if you behave like that when things don’t go your way, I’m not entirely sure why anyone is giving them any sympathy
You seem to be dodging the question of how has it got to this point. Man management is a key part of being a successful high level coach.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Dalton is a good player but he doesn’t have the personal accolades to be demanding anything from anyone
What is he demanding? Being treated with respect?
How is I’m not selecting you because I don’t think you’re good enough not being treated with respect? Even if you disagree with the opinion, how is it disrespectful)?
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Dalton is a good player but he doesn’t have the personal accolades to be demanding anything from anyone
What is he demanding? Being treated with respect?
How is I’m not selecting you because I don’t think you’re good enough not being treated with respect? Even if you disagree with the opinion, how is it disrespectful)?
It can be disrespectful in the way you communicate (or dont communicate) the message. This isn't the 1950s - there's a bit more to it than the player reading his name (or not) in an AB squad in the paper. There's an art to keeping relationships.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
I agree in principle with this. But, the only thing keeping people here is the chance to be an AB.
You can make far more money overseas, with far less pressure, and be treated very very well.
So, if you deem the environment to be toxic, and believe that the road back is blocked, and have a young family... I can easily see why someone would choose to stay out of the environment.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating; Paps is likely on a pretty good contract now, but that won't last without further selection. So if he buggers off overseas - and he would command a very good contract halfway between a WC - we may look back at this differently.
I agree. If your priority is money and family, go overseas. But you do that like an adult. You say, Listen, thanks but I’m priorities long term financial success for my family and I think that’s best done elsewhere. Not throwing your toys because you and your mates (who really aren’t flash enough to behaving like this) dont get picked.
You speak like you know something. If not you can only presume like the rest of us. But there seems to be a lot of smoke emanating from numerous sources all of a sudden. And where there's smoke there's often fire. Trust is a two way street, and if these players feel trust is lacking it isn't unreasonable for them to want no part of a toxic situation
I’m not remotely implying I know anything. I’m just reading what’s been said here and the odd consensus that this is appropriate behaviour from a professional. That’s all I’m commenting on. The behaviour from a few blues players for their justifiable or unjustifiable lack of selection has been particularly childish. And if you behave like that when things don’t go your way, I’m not entirely sure why anyone is giving them any sympathy
Clearly you believe Razor and his team have acted honorably. I'm not so sure
Honourably? Really….
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Nothing to suggest Robertson hasn't got the people he wanted from the start, but with the shambles that is NZR, who knows?
Yes there is, he wanted Tony Brown. You can find sources online.
If we wanted Tony Brown, they should have chosen Jamie Joseph. The fact that Brown went to SA probably says a lot about how other coaches - outside the Crusaders - feel about working with Razor.
My concern is who they could get to come in who would actually be better than what we have...
It's well known that Razor rejected any other role than Head Coach with his team.
Although I believe we need new assistants and we do need change, I'm not sure that we should be looking to change over the assistants - will a new attack coach with no international experience be any better amongst this team than what we have?
The correct strategic choice for the new CEO of NZRU is to do a complete evaluation of the current team.
My recall is Tony Brown believed accepting would not be loyal to Joseph, don't know what he actually thought of Razor et al.
But then he went to work for the Boks...Tony Brown and Joe Scmidt. have both actively sought to hurt NZ rugby and the All Blacks by working to get high level opponents to the level they can beat us when their were roles on offer in NZ rugby. Can't understand why so many NZ rugby fans have any respect for this. They are not they answer.
Vern Cotter like Graham Henry only coached also rans who where no real threat to the All Blacks, same with Jamie Joseph. These are the guys we should be looking to not a couple of mercenaries who sell out to the highest bidder.
That’s absolute fucking horseshit
That’s on NZRFU not the individuals
The best aspire to play for the best teams, coach the best teams, beat the best teams, and be the best
That is horseshit when it comes the to the All Blacks and NZ rugby. For a century and more our game was built on people who would never turn their back on their country were willing to sacrifice and give their all to the jersey and when it no longer needed them they retreated back to their province and were happy to be stalwarts of their area still supporting the All Blacks and helping the game at the lower levels. Since we started accepting your philosophy we have gone to shit and other teams have improved off what our mercenaries are willing to sell them.
You wouldn’t have won two RWCs if two of your boys hadn’t come to Wales
Like I said also rans who are no real threat.
During Henry’s tenure Wales beat Argentina (4), France (3), Italy (3), England, SA, Canada, Japan, Scotland, Ireland, Samoa, USA, Romania, Tonga
Wales didn’t play NZ under HenryDuring Hansen’s tenure Wales beat Canada (2), Fiji, Romania, Italy (4), Tonga, Scotland (2)
Wales played NZ 4 times under HansenThe wins and more importantly the losses furthered both of these coaches rugby knowledge and ability to achieve the ultimate prize
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
And Fosters environment seemed no less toxic.
Sorry, that's nonsense. Whatever is said about Foster's coaching, his squad was clearly very tight, loyal and hugely respected him - he had players publicly queuing up to support him when the pressure was on.
Read what his players said about him in his book
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
I’m just reading what’s been said here and the odd consensus that this is appropriate behaviour from a professional.
That goes for coaches as well as players.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
I agree in principle with this. But, the only thing keeping people here is the chance to be an AB.
You can make far more money overseas, with far less pressure, and be treated very very well.
So, if you deem the environment to be toxic, and believe that the road back is blocked, and have a young family... I can easily see why someone would choose to stay out of the environment.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating; Paps is likely on a pretty good contract now, but that won't last without further selection. So if he buggers off overseas - and he would command a very good contract halfway between a WC - we may look back at this differently.
I agree. If your priority is money and family, go overseas. But you do that like an adult. You say, Listen, thanks but I’m priorities long term financial success for my family and I think that’s best done elsewhere. Not throwing your toys because you and your mates (who really aren’t flash enough to behaving like this) dont get picked.
You speak like you know something. If not you can only presume like the rest of us. But there seems to be a lot of smoke emanating from numerous sources all of a sudden. And where there's smoke there's often fire. Trust is a two way street, and if these players feel trust is lacking it isn't unreasonable for them to want no part of a toxic situation
I’m not remotely implying I know anything. I’m just reading what’s been said here and the odd consensus that this is appropriate behaviour from a professional. That’s all I’m commenting on. The behaviour from a few blues players for their justifiable or unjustifiable lack of selection has been particularly childish. And if you behave like that when things don’t go your way, I’m not entirely sure why anyone is giving them any sympathy
It's not clear to me how he has behaved badly or even in a childish manner - he's not on Tiktok moaning about it.
We have heard a rumor that he refused promotion to the AB team.
He may have done that with the greatest of respect. For example, he may have said that he would prefer to stay with the ABXV team as the captain.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
I agree in principle with this. But, the only thing keeping people here is the chance to be an AB.
You can make far more money overseas, with far less pressure, and be treated very very well.
So, if you deem the environment to be toxic, and believe that the road back is blocked, and have a young family... I can easily see why someone would choose to stay out of the environment.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating; Paps is likely on a pretty good contract now, but that won't last without further selection. So if he buggers off overseas - and he would command a very good contract halfway between a WC - we may look back at this differently.
I agree. If your priority is money and family, go overseas. But you do that like an adult. You say, Listen, thanks but I’m priorities long term financial success for my family and I think that’s best done elsewhere. Not throwing your toys because you and your mates (who really aren’t flash enough to behaving like this) dont get picked.
You speak like you know something. If not you can only presume like the rest of us. But there seems to be a lot of smoke emanating from numerous sources all of a sudden. And where there's smoke there's often fire. Trust is a two way street, and if these players feel trust is lacking it isn't unreasonable for them to want no part of a toxic situation
I’m not remotely implying I know anything. I’m just reading what’s been said here and the odd consensus that this is appropriate behaviour from a professional. That’s all I’m commenting on. The behaviour from a few blues players for their justifiable or unjustifiable lack of selection has been particularly childish. And if you behave like that when things don’t go your way, I’m not entirely sure why anyone is giving them any sympathy
It's not clear to me how he has behaved badly or even in a childish manner - he's not on Tiktok moaning about it.
We have heard a rumor that he refused promotion to the AB team.
He may have done that with the greatest of respect. For example, he may have said that he would prefer to stay with the ABXV team as the captain.
I’m literally responding to what people are saying. If he did do that, then yes absolutely
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Nothing to suggest Robertson hasn't got the people he wanted from the start, but with the shambles that is NZR, who knows?
Yes there is, he wanted Tony Brown. You can find sources online.
If we wanted Tony Brown, they should have chosen Jamie Joseph. The fact that Brown went to SA probably says a lot about how other coaches - outside the Crusaders - feel about working with Razor.
My concern is who they could get to come in who would actually be better than what we have...
It's well known that Razor rejected any other role than Head Coach with his team.
Although I believe we need new assistants and we do need change, I'm not sure that we should be looking to change over the assistants - will a new attack coach with no international experience be any better amongst this team than what we have?
The correct strategic choice for the new CEO of NZRU is to do a complete evaluation of the current team.
My recall is Tony Brown believed accepting would not be loyal to Joseph, don't know what he actually thought of Razor et al.
But then he went to work for the Boks...Tony Brown and Joe Scmidt. have both actively sought to hurt NZ rugby and the All Blacks by working to get high level opponents to the level they can beat us when their were roles on offer in NZ rugby. Can't understand why so many NZ rugby fans have any respect for this. They are not they answer.
Vern Cotter like Graham Henry only coached also rans who where no real threat to the All Blacks, same with Jamie Joseph. These are the guys we should be looking to not a couple of mercenaries who sell out to the highest bidder.
That’s absolute fucking horseshit
That’s on NZRFU not the individuals
The best aspire to play for the best teams, coach the best teams, beat the best teams, and be the best
That is horseshit when it comes the to the All Blacks and NZ rugby. For a century and more our game was built on people who would never turn their back on their country were willing to sacrifice and give their all to the jersey and when it no longer needed them they retreated back to their province and were happy to be stalwarts of their area still supporting the All Blacks and helping the game at the lower levels. Since we started accepting your philosophy we have gone to shit and other teams have improved off what our mercenaries are willing to sell them.
You wouldn’t have won two RWCs if two of your boys hadn’t come to Wales
Like I said also rans who are no real threat.
During Henry’s tenure Wales beat Argentina (4), France (3), Italy (3), England, SA, Canada, Japan, Scotland, Ireland, Samoa, USA, Romania, Tonga
Wales didn’t play NZ under HenryDuring Hansen’s tenure Wales beat Canada (2), Fiji, Romania, Italy (4), Tonga, Scotland (2)
Wales played NZ 4 times under HansenThe wins and more importantly the losses furthered both of these coaches rugby knowledge and ability to achieve the ultimate prize
Wales were a bit of an embracement when Henry took over and became a real force under those two. Even if they didn't win, they were always a bloody tough prospect
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
And Fosters environment seemed no less toxic.
Sorry, that's nonsense. Whatever is said about Foster's coaching, his squad was clearly very tight, loyal and hugely respected him - he had players publicly queuing up to support him when the pressure was on.
Read what his players said about him in his book
Foster had a select group of players who did that. A few players in the leadership group, like Whitelock, didn’t even know the meeting was planned until he was asked to turn up. A lot of other players had no idea. So it’s not players queuing around the corner. He obviously had a very loyal group of players in the team. What coach wouldn’t?
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Dalton is a good player but he doesn’t have the personal accolades to be demanding anything from anyone
What is he demanding? Being treated with respect?
How is I’m not selecting you because I don’t think you’re good enough not being treated with respect? Even if you disagree with the opinion, how is it disrespectful)?
Which has nothing to do with communicating and treating players with respect.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb When was he not in Foster's squads? He was a permanent fixture in 2022 and 2023 at least.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that he made every squad under Foster.
I'm a fan of Kirifi. He's come a long way and bleeds yellow for the Canes. And he's worn the black jersey proudly. But guys like him, and others getting the nod over Paps purely based on performance? I can't agree with that
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Nothing to suggest Robertson hasn't got the people he wanted from the start, but with the shambles that is NZR, who knows?
Yes there is, he wanted Tony Brown. You can find sources online.
If we wanted Tony Brown, they should have chosen Jamie Joseph. The fact that Brown went to SA probably says a lot about how other coaches - outside the Crusaders - feel about working with Razor.
My concern is who they could get to come in who would actually be better than what we have...
It's well known that Razor rejected any other role than Head Coach with his team.
Although I believe we need new assistants and we do need change, I'm not sure that we should be looking to change over the assistants - will a new attack coach with no international experience be any better amongst this team than what we have?
The correct strategic choice for the new CEO of NZRU is to do a complete evaluation of the current team.
My recall is Tony Brown believed accepting would not be loyal to Joseph, don't know what he actually thought of Razor et al.
But then he went to work for the Boks...Tony Brown and Joe Scmidt. have both actively sought to hurt NZ rugby and the All Blacks by working to get high level opponents to the level they can beat us when their were roles on offer in NZ rugby. Can't understand why so many NZ rugby fans have any respect for this. They are not they answer.
Vern Cotter like Graham Henry only coached also rans who where no real threat to the All Blacks, same with Jamie Joseph. These are the guys we should be looking to not a couple of mercenaries who sell out to the highest bidder.
That’s absolute fucking horseshit
That’s on NZRFU not the individuals
The best aspire to play for the best teams, coach the best teams, beat the best teams, and be the best
That is horseshit when it comes the to the All Blacks and NZ rugby. For a century and more our game was built on people who would never turn their back on their country were willing to sacrifice and give their all to the jersey and when it no longer needed them they retreated back to their province and were happy to be stalwarts of their area still supporting the All Blacks and helping the game at the lower levels. Since we started accepting your philosophy we have gone to shit and other teams have improved off what our mercenaries are willing to sell them.
As @MiketheSnow has pointed out, NZ benefits hugely by our coaches working overseas for other teams. There's a reason Foster wanted Schmidt from day 1 and we all saw the improvements when he finally got him.
The real issue is why people like Tony Brown, Joe Schmidt, Enoka (and probably others we don't know about) seem to want nothing to do with coaching the All Blacks. No one is going to expose themselves to the crap and lack of support that NZR has dished up in recent years
Joe made clear previously that he wouldn’t work under Razor. And he’s got a son with health issues, so committing to the RWC would have been difficult. I know he was honoured to be part of AB set up.
