All Blacks 2025
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
I love this revisionism going on over the Ian Foster years. Those were bad years way worse than what is happening now. The All Blacks may struggle to put teams away now but at least they are getting themselves in a position to win and blowing it .
Alot of the Foster era losses we never fired a shot, were not in the game at any stage and looked way off the pace. Classic example being the mauling we took at Twickenham from the Boks vs the one at Wellington. At halftime at the caketin we were leading and the pundits were optimistic. At Twickenham we were humbled from start to finish.
Tbh the ABs were not really controlling the game in Wellington in the first half despite the scoreline.
Jordie saved a certain try with a tackle on Kolbe, Reinach knocked on and blew another try.
Could've easily been 21-10 or something like that at HT.
TBH in the Foster years it would have been but this All Black team at least manages to stay competitive for most of the match with arguably a worse group of players to select from.
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
I love this revisionism going on over the Ian Foster years. Those were bad years way worse than what is happening now. The All Blacks may struggle to put teams away now but at least they are getting themselves in a position to win and blowing it .
Alot of the Foster era losses we never fired a shot, were not in the game at any stage and looked way off the pace. Classic example being the mauling we took at Twickenham from the Boks vs the one at Wellington. At halftime at the caketin we were leading and the pundits were optimistic. At Twickenham we were humbled from start to finish.
Which one is the record loss again?
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
I love this revisionism going on over the Ian Foster years. Those were bad years way worse than what is happening now. The All Blacks may struggle to put teams away now but at least they are getting themselves in a position to win and blowing it .
Alot of the Foster era losses we never fired a shot, were not in the game at any stage and looked way off the pace. Classic example being the mauling we took at Twickenham from the Boks vs the one at Wellington. At halftime at the caketin we were leading and the pundits were optimistic. At Twickenham we were humbled from start to finish.
Where is this revisionism of which you speak? I think most posters on here are well aware of the failings of the Fozzi era. Doesn't change the fact that he took as much of a battering in the media and from NZR/Robinson as any AB coach I can recall (no AB coach has ever been fired, and were it not for the players I think Fozz would have been the first), and by comparison only now is Razor feeling a little heat despite his less than glittering record over the last two years and the manner of play
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
I get you might be pissed off but the sense of entitlement for a fringe All Black player to do that is a tad pathetic. Can you imagine anyone in any other serious job behaving like that?
Well, I've walked away from business clients as being associated with them would be bad for my business/career prospects.
Yes but I’m not sure the two are comparable. One is a smart business decision, the other is behaving like a brat. Dalton is a good player but he doesn’t have the personal accolades to be demanding anything from anyone
You asked the question, got an answer, then disregarded the answer
He boo-boo'd, @booboo
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@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
Brad Thorn made the news when he turned it down. Is there any other cases of guys actually saying no ?
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
Brad Thorn made the news when he turned it down. Is there any other cases of guys actually saying no ?
Brad Thorn said no because he thought he wasn't ready yet didn't he? Not because of a dispute with management.
At the end of the day the majority of people will have to deal with sh1tty managers in their career at some point and often for extended periods. Passed over for promotion etc is a common gripe.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
Brad Thorn made the news when he turned it down. Is there any other cases of guys actually saying no ?
Brad Thorn said no because he thought he wasn't ready yet didn't he? Not because of a dispute with management.
At the end of the day the majority of people will have to deal with sh1tty managers in their career at some point and often for extended periods. Passed over for promotion etc is a common gripe.
That's the one, and obviously once he was ready he went on to have a great career.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
Brad Thorn made the news when he turned it down. Is there any other cases of guys actually saying no ?
What were BBBTs reasons? I thought he didn't think he was ready. This is something entirely different
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little wonder the team is struggling with the game plan listening to this soundbite
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
Brad Thorn made the news when he turned it down. Is there any other cases of guys actually saying no ?
What were BBBTs reasons? I thought he didn't think he was ready. This is something entirely different
Yes, the situation sounds completely different but still turning the jersey down all the same. Big news at the time as I recall.
Papalii not making the squad and every single other loose forward leapfrogging him seems very suspicious.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
Brad Thorn made the news when he turned it down. Is there any other cases of guys actually saying no ?
What were BBBTs reasons? I thought he didn't think he was ready. This is something entirely different
Yes, the situation sounds completely different but still turning the jersey down all the same. Big news at the time as I recall.
Papalii not making the squad and every single other loose forward leapfrogging him seems very suspicious.
Well Devon Flanders has been called into the squad as cover so there's that.
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
Things in the coaching setup need to be tweaked and some older players moved on but it is not the end of the All Blacks
completely agree. And i think most here do as well.
The problem is, the lack of visible signs that those in charge see it the same.
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This is the problem I have with the Paps scenario and by extension Akira (don't tell me he wouldn't have stayed if they asked) and Hoskins. He was given work ons and he appears to have done what they asked. But he still doesn't get picked and lots of fans would base their opinions on whether he should get another shot or not purely on past performance. But if we did that we would have never seen the best from rodders or Kaino, who were both dropped and told to go away and work on stuff. I think we can all agree they ended up having pretty good AB careers the second time around
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
This is the problem I have with the Paps scenario and by extension Akira (don't tell me he wouldn't have stayed if they asked) and Hoskins. He was given work ons and he appears to have done what they asked. But he still doesn't get picked and lots of fans would base their opinions on whether he should get another shot or not purely on past performance. But if we did that we would have never seen the best from rodders or Kaino, who were both dropped and told to go away and work on stuff. I think we can all agree they ended up having pretty good AB careers the second time around
For me whatever the workons for Papali'i were are misguided BS. The current set of loose forwards collectively are a defensive failure and not up to test standard. They were selected as hybrid jack of all trades because Razor thought that the loose forwards should be able to play all positions.
The record scores are all defensive issues. When the ABs get a 12 point lead they should win easily.
You dont see nominee world player of the year PSDT playing at 8 or openside. He sticks to blindside and very occasionally plays at lock. Hes primarily a specialist who dominates in defense and at the breakdown then occasionally chimes in with a opportunitic run.
Hes a specialist who doesnt suit the role of 8 or openside.
At the moment we dont have that player in our loose forward mix.
South Africa are easily the best team in the world at the moment and their loose forward trio are all primarily specialists. Kolisi at openside and Weise at 8. You dont see Weise playing at openside for his club sides like Lakai often does. Even Smith primarily comes on for Kolisi. He can cover different positions but he usually replaces Kolisi
Why do we have Sititi replacing Parker when they are completely different players? Even the Chiefs were replacing similar for similar in Finau for Parker.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
Brad Thorn made the news when he turned it down. Is there any other cases of guys actually saying no ?
John Leslie? To play for Scotland.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
Brad Thorn made the news when he turned it down. Is there any other cases of guys actually saying no ?
John Leslie? To play for Scotland.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
You dont see nominee world player of the year PSDT playing at 8 or openside. He sticks to blindside and very occasionally plays at lock. Hes primarily a specialist who dominates in defense and at the breakdown then occasionally chimes in with a opportunitic run.
The polar opposite of certain All Blacks loose forwards, who actively avoid making tackles and the breakdown to better position themselves for a run or chip and chase.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
I get you might be pissed off but the sense of entitlement for a fringe All Black player to do that is a tad pathetic. Can you imagine anyone in any other serious job behaving like that?
Well, I've walked away from business clients as being associated with them would be bad for my business/career prospects.
Yes but I’m not sure the two are comparable. One is a smart business decision, the other is behaving like a brat. Dalton is a good player but he doesn’t have the personal accolades to be demanding anything from anyone
You asked the question, got an answer, then disregarded the answer
You’re that sort of parent…..
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
You dont see nominee world player of the year PSDT playing at 8 or openside. He sticks to blindside and very occasionally plays at lock. Hes primarily a specialist who dominates in defense and at the breakdown then occasionally chimes in with a opportunitic run.
The polar opposite of certain All Blacks loose forwards, who actively avoid making tackles and the breakdown to better position themselves for a run or chip and chase.
That is certainly a major issue. 3 out of 4 of our loose forwards in the weekend are first and foremost carriers over everything else.
Parker is a bit more focused on defence and rucks but his work rate isnt close to someone like PSDT - neither is Vaa'is or Finaus.
