Wales v All Blacks
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@sparky said in Wales v All Blacks:
@nostrildamus 60-61 according to Wikipedia. He was born in 1964.
I must have the wrong guy, he's practically an embryo!*
*dramatic Fern effect.
@nostrildamus said in Wales v All Blacks:
@sparky said in Wales v All Blacks:
@nostrildamus 60-61 according to Wikipedia. He was born in 1964.
I must have the wrong guy, he's practically an embryo!*
*dramatic Fern effect.
Murray Deaker? He was an alchy.
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Was a stark difference with Dmac and Love in the pivots. Front foot ball, defenders werent just sliding onto the next reciever, faster pace of play, variance in carrying and depth. Just seeing two guys keen to get their hands on the ball was extremely refreshing.
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@nostrildamus said in Wales v All Blacks:
@sparky said in Wales v All Blacks:
@nostrildamus 60-61 according to Wikipedia. He was born in 1964.
I must have the wrong guy, he's practically an embryo!*
*dramatic Fern effect.
Murray Deaker? He was an alchy.
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@nostrildamus said in Wales v All Blacks:
@booboo said in Wales v All Blacks:
Murray Deaker? He was an alchy.
That's it! Sorry Devlin!
Devlin will be guttted someone is comparing him to Deaker in terms of age. They could easily be father and son.
I met him ( Devlin ) a few times while working in Radio in my late teens.
Really nice bloke ( although he has certainly gotten grumpier with age judging by hearing him )
very animated, freakishly skinny ( I can see why the Game of two halves guys gave him shit constantly ) arms like twigs.....
VERY passionate about sport.
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Overall, I have no problems with the referee, she did a good job and allowed the game to flow. CAn't complain about that.
However, I have real issues with the double no award try. The process around both was absolutely infuriating. It maybe that the correct decisions were reached (more about that later), but the WR sanctioned process about it is complete and utter bullshit.
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Was it a clear knock-on? Perhaps, although I was unconvinced as no angles of the replay seemed to show it side on. If it had been called in realtime, fair enough, if it had been called immediate after the try, then again, fair enough. If the TMO can't spot the damn thing before the conversion, then why should they be given more time? There are shot clocks now to speed up the game, so the damn TMO should be under the same rule. Ridiculous to have it disallowed after the conversion. Again, this is no slight on the refereeing team, it's on whoever makes the fucking stupid soul destroying rules.
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The rear angle showed a hand underneath it, no question. However, it wasn't clear and obvious that it never touched the line from the other angle. Once Davidson had said "i have a clear grounding", then thats it. What is the point of showing a held up from a different angle? I squarely blame the TMO here. He kept pressing, and once again, seriously slowing the game down. The TMO should have said "you have the better view, thus if you have clear grounding, try is awarded".
It's beyond belief that anybody from WR could watch that and feel satisfied that it's working as it should.
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TMO clearly said stick with your on field decision. That Davidson went against all protocol with an absolute melt decision is not his fault.
@Bones said in Wales v All Blacks:
TMO clearly said stick with your on field decision. That Davidson went against all protocol with an absolute melt decision is not his fault.
What they say and what they mean are very different.
Davidson dutifully followed the ghost protocol.
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@Bones said in Wales v All Blacks:
@Mr-Fish held up before grounding is in no way the same as a knock on. The ball is grounded, that's all there is to it.
I agree with you, the ball isn't held up for long enough and it should be play on. But my point was that the TMO wasn't disputing that the ball was eventually grounded, he was saying that it was held up first. It wasn't a case that it looked held up from one angle but grounded from another.
@Mr-Fish said in Wales v All Blacks:
@Bones said in Wales v All Blacks:
@Mr-Fish held up before grounding is in no way the same as a knock on. The ball is grounded, that's all there is to it.
I agree with you, the ball isn't held up for long enough and it should be play on. But my point was that the TMO wasn't disputing that the ball was eventually grounded, he was saying that it was held up first. It wasn't a case that it looked held up from one angle but grounded from another.
When the referee says “I have a clear grounding”, that should be it, over.
Puts his feet up and sends a selfie to his missus saying something like “easiest job ever”. The modern TMO is the literal definition of a solution looking for a problem.
And I fucking hate those fluffybunnies.
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TMO clearly said stick with your on field decision. That Davidson went against all protocol with an absolute melt decision is not his fault.
@Bones said in Wales v All Blacks:
TMO clearly said stick with your on field decision. That Davidson went against all protocol with an absolute melt decision is not his fault.
I know that this shouldnt be a reason to consider, but then again it should be.
People are gambling on these games.
Spread betting, try scorer bets etc.
I totally understand them wanting to get things right, and wanting to protect themselves from future litigation over concussions etc.
All I ask for is consistency. And we dont have that. Not even close.
Imagine being Sam Cane watching the Autumn Internationals seeing the card roulette, non cards (Sasha) and red cards over turned in the court room.
They stole his big day from him for a tackle less egregious than those unsanctioned or deemed non reds this very Autumn.
I'd be suicidal.
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@brodean said in Wales v All Blacks:
@kidcalder said in Wales v All Blacks:
@brodean said in Wales v All Blacks:
I would have really liked to have seen Love get a run at 10. What are they afraid of?
Thats RM jersey and BB is keepng it mediocre until he is available= no point anyone being allowed the opportunity to shine and make the changeover more complex
25 minutes to go with the game well won and they could have moved him to 10 but instead they take him off for Reece.
Was he injured or something? I thought he looked gassed in second half, seemed to lose a bit of fizz after halftime.
@Dan54 said in Wales v All Blacks:
@brodean said in Wales v All Blacks:
@kidcalder said in Wales v All Blacks:
@brodean said in Wales v All Blacks:
I would have really liked to have seen Love get a run at 10. What are they afraid of?
Thats RM jersey and BB is keepng it mediocre until he is available= no point anyone being allowed the opportunity to shine and make the changeover more complex
25 minutes to go with the game well won and they could have moved him to 10 but instead they take him off for Reece.
Was he injured or something? I thought he looked gassed in second half, seemed to lose a bit of fizz after halftime.
Razor mentioned Love had an ankle issue.
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@Mr-Fish said in Wales v All Blacks:
@Bones said in Wales v All Blacks:
@Mr-Fish held up before grounding is in no way the same as a knock on. The ball is grounded, that's all there is to it.
I agree with you, the ball isn't held up for long enough and it should be play on. But my point was that the TMO wasn't disputing that the ball was eventually grounded, he was saying that it was held up first. It wasn't a case that it looked held up from one angle but grounded from another.
When the referee says “I have a clear grounding”, that should be it, over.
Puts his feet up and sends a selfie to his missus saying something like “easiest job ever”. The modern TMO is the literal definition of a solution looking for a problem.
And I fucking hate those fluffybunnies.
@MajorPom said in Wales v All Blacks:
@Mr-Fish said in Wales v All Blacks:
@Bones said in Wales v All Blacks:
@Mr-Fish held up before grounding is in no way the same as a knock on. The ball is grounded, that's all there is to it.
I agree with you, the ball isn't held up for long enough and it should be play on. But my point was that the TMO wasn't disputing that the ball was eventually grounded, he was saying that it was held up first. It wasn't a case that it looked held up from one angle but grounded from another.
When the referee says “I have a clear grounding”, that should be it, over.
Puts his feet up and sends a selfie to his missus saying something like “easiest job ever”. The modern TMO is the literal definition of a solution looking for a problem.
And I fucking hate those fluffybunnies.
I'm at the same point with rugby and cricket. Umpires/Refs making mistakes is part of the sport. Best is the enemy of good.
Get rid of TMOs completely.
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@MajorPom said in Wales v All Blacks:
@Mr-Fish said in Wales v All Blacks:
@Bones said in Wales v All Blacks:
@Mr-Fish held up before grounding is in no way the same as a knock on. The ball is grounded, that's all there is to it.
I agree with you, the ball isn't held up for long enough and it should be play on. But my point was that the TMO wasn't disputing that the ball was eventually grounded, he was saying that it was held up first. It wasn't a case that it looked held up from one angle but grounded from another.
When the referee says “I have a clear grounding”, that should be it, over.
Puts his feet up and sends a selfie to his missus saying something like “easiest job ever”. The modern TMO is the literal definition of a solution looking for a problem.
And I fucking hate those fluffybunnies.
I'm at the same point with rugby and cricket. Umpires/Refs making mistakes is part of the sport. Best is the enemy of good.
Get rid of TMOs completely.
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@Kirwan disagree on the cricket. Actually think they have that pretty good It’s a slow game so doesn’t kill it.
NRL bunker has it spot on for 80-90 min matches.
@MajorPom said in Wales v All Blacks:
@Kirwan disagree on the cricket. Actually think they have that pretty good It’s a slow game so doesn’t kill it.
NRL bunker has it spot on for 80-90 min matches.
I jumped onto the ashes and died of boredom watching them look for what felt like an hour looking for a sound rolling the tape forward and back.
Was painful.
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One thing that stood out to me and I know it's only Wales.
But how much better we are with D Mac at 10,He kicked long mostly no dinky stupid kicks that give away possession he kicked for grass most of the time.Plus his intent to attack was always good.He was more aware of space and what was around him,
BB is gone as a test player he is not up to it anymore,If the coaches had a brain D Mac and Mounga in the 23 and no BB. -
I don't think Davidson was any better than any other referee. Twice in quick succession she made a decision only to be "overruled" by a TMO.
Once for Clarke's tackle busting run to score she's next to the ruck where Kirifi knocked on and said it went backwards.
Then practically immediately afterwards when she said she "I clearly have it on the line". Then the TMO tells her to stick with her on-field decision.
The only thing she did well was to keep penalising Wales for not rolling away. Everything else was bog standard these days.
So for all the "TMO is ruining the game", she's the one with the whistle changing her mind from what she's seen and what she's adjudicated.
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One thing that stood out to me and I know it's only Wales.
But how much better we are with D Mac at 10,He kicked long mostly no dinky stupid kicks that give away possession he kicked for grass most of the time.Plus his intent to attack was always good.He was more aware of space and what was around him,
BB is gone as a test player he is not up to it anymore,If the coaches had a brain D Mac and Mounga in the 23 and no BB.@Chris said in Wales v All Blacks:
One thing that stood out to me and I know it's only Wales.
But how much better we are with D Mac at 10, He kicked long mostly no dinky stupid kicks that give away possession he kicked for grass most of the time.Plus his intent to attack was always good.He was more aware of space and what was around him,
BB is gone as a test player he is not up to it anymore,If the coaches had a brain D Mac and Mounga in the 23 and no BB.He’s not perfect but his mindset to attack makes a big difference. Love that he wants to kick long when given the chance. I think he only had one kick where I said why. But whether at 10 or 15 he wants to attack. A player like Jordan who was playing more like a 2nd fullback is far more effective when the 10 is attacking too.
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I don't think Davidson was any better than any other referee. Twice in quick succession she made a decision only to be "overruled" by a TMO.
Once for Clarke's tackle busting run to score she's next to the ruck where Kirifi knocked on and said it went backwards.
Then practically immediately afterwards when she said she "I clearly have it on the line". Then the TMO tells her to stick with her on-field decision.
The only thing she did well was to keep penalising Wales for not rolling away. Everything else was bog standard these days.
So for all the "TMO is ruining the game", she's the one with the whistle changing her mind from what she's seen and what she's adjudicated.
@antipodean said in Wales v All Blacks:
I don't think Davidson was any better than any other referee. Twice in quick succession she made a decision only to be "overruled" by a TMO.
Once for Clarke's tackle busting run to score she's next to the ruck where Kirifi knocked on and said it went backwards.
Then practically immediately afterwards when she said she "I clearly have it on the line". Then the TMO tells her to stick with her on-field decision.
The only thing she did well was to keep penalising Wales for not rolling away. Everything else was bog standard these days.
So for all the "TMO is ruining the game", she's the one with the whistle changing her mind from what she's seen and what she's adjudicated.
I thought she had an excellent first half.
The unfortunate thing is that ref’s seem to think that they have cards in their pockets so they need to use them. She succumbed to that.
In fact, I wish ref’s actually sought to get through games WITHOUT going to the pocket.
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@antipodean said in Wales v All Blacks:
I don't think Davidson was any better than any other referee. Twice in quick succession she made a decision only to be "overruled" by a TMO.
Once for Clarke's tackle busting run to score she's next to the ruck where Kirifi knocked on and said it went backwards.
Then practically immediately afterwards when she said she "I clearly have it on the line". Then the TMO tells her to stick with her on-field decision.
The only thing she did well was to keep penalising Wales for not rolling away. Everything else was bog standard these days.
So for all the "TMO is ruining the game", she's the one with the whistle changing her mind from what she's seen and what she's adjudicated.
I thought she had an excellent first half.
The unfortunate thing is that ref’s seem to think that they have cards in their pockets so they need to use them. She succumbed to that.
In fact, I wish ref’s actually sought to get through games WITHOUT going to the pocket.
@pakman said in Wales v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in Wales v All Blacks:
I don't think Davidson was any better than any other referee. Twice in quick succession she made a decision only to be "overruled" by a TMO.
Once for Clarke's tackle busting run to score she's next to the ruck where Kirifi knocked on and said it went backwards.
Then practically immediately afterwards when she said she "I clearly have it on the line". Then the TMO tells her to stick with her on-field decision.
The only thing she did well was to keep penalising Wales for not rolling away. Everything else was bog standard these days.
So for all the "TMO is ruining the game", she's the one with the whistle changing her mind from what she's seen and what she's adjudicated.
I thought she had an excellent first half.
The unfortunate thing is that ref’s seem to think that they have cards in their pockets so they need to use them. She succumbed to that.
In fact, I wish ref’s actually sought to get through games WITHOUT going to the pocket.
Which of Wales' two yellow cards do you think weren't justified? They were pretty clear cut for me. If anything Plumtree was lucky to escape without a 20-minute red.
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@pakman said in Wales v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in Wales v All Blacks:
I don't think Davidson was any better than any other referee. Twice in quick succession she made a decision only to be "overruled" by a TMO.
Once for Clarke's tackle busting run to score she's next to the ruck where Kirifi knocked on and said it went backwards.
Then practically immediately afterwards when she said she "I clearly have it on the line". Then the TMO tells her to stick with her on-field decision.
The only thing she did well was to keep penalising Wales for not rolling away. Everything else was bog standard these days.
So for all the "TMO is ruining the game", she's the one with the whistle changing her mind from what she's seen and what she's adjudicated.
I thought she had an excellent first half.
The unfortunate thing is that ref’s seem to think that they have cards in their pockets so they need to use them. She succumbed to that.
In fact, I wish ref’s actually sought to get through games WITHOUT going to the pocket.
Which of Wales' two yellow cards do you think weren't justified? They were pretty clear cut for me. If anything Plumtree was lucky to escape without a 20-minute red.
@Mr-Fish said in Wales v All Blacks:
@pakman said in Wales v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in Wales v All Blacks:
I don't think Davidson was any better than any other referee. Twice in quick succession she made a decision only to be "overruled" by a TMO.
Once for Clarke's tackle busting run to score she's next to the ruck where Kirifi knocked on and said it went backwards.
Then practically immediately afterwards when she said she "I clearly have it on the line". Then the TMO tells her to stick with her on-field decision.
The only thing she did well was to keep penalising Wales for not rolling away. Everything else was bog standard these days.
So for all the "TMO is ruining the game", she's the one with the whistle changing her mind from what she's seen and what she's adjudicated.
I thought she had an excellent first half.
The unfortunate thing is that ref’s seem to think that they have cards in their pockets so they need to use them. She succumbed to that.
In fact, I wish ref’s actually sought to get through games WITHOUT going to the pocket.
Which of Wales' two yellow cards do you think weren't justified? They were pretty clear cut for me. If anything Plumtree was lucky to escape without a 20-minute red.
You’ve gotten sucked into the card mindset. As an AB fan, I’d have preferred both to just be penalties.
We’d have had a better game.Yes, I know the current rules/protocols but I personally don’t want to watch TMO bingo.
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If you're making head contact, a yellow card is almost inevitable under the current climate. That's the new norm due to the various CTE issues/lawsuits - far too big a risk for WR to roll that one back.
@Mr-Fish I grant you that.
But for ‘voluntary’ penalties I’d rather ref’s kept it in their pants.
Perhaps more assertiveness along the way would help? If I were a ref I might say to the captain that the crowd didn’t come along to see me giving out cards so for God’s sake tell your players to cut the crap.
Perhaps I’m just still riled from the ludicrousness of the Codie yellow!
