What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year
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@Victor-Meldrew said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@Bones said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
Blackdragon is back baby.
Woosh.
Is that before your time?
He posted some fucking outrageously funny takes, the most enduring being the thread on ideal height to weight ratio, where by his definition, Carl Hayman should have made an ideal number 8.
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@S3L3CTOR said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
I think the ABs will struggle at RWC2027 if they don't select a backline similar to the following by the end of 2026. It's experimental and I just call it the "50-22 and then play from there" backline:
- Roigard (backup = Pledger)
- Chay Fihaki (huge boot)
- Caleb Clarke
- Timoci T
- Leicester F
- Caleb Tangitau
- Kyren Taumoefolau (huge boot)
Power in midfield. Back three that have elite speed and are also great under high ball. Fullback is tall, posseses a great vertical leap and a sizeable boot.
Notes:
- No Beauden, bc he has an incomplete skillset for 10 (not a goalkicker; poor tactical kicker; not a great passer)
- No Jordie, bc he lacks power and is also not great distributor
- No Jordan, bc not 100% under high ball, doesn't possess a boot, and generally falters against physical in-your-face teams like the Boks.
- No Carter, bc his defensive positioning and high ball work is iffy.
- No Dmac, but one of either he or Carter (covers 9, 11, 14) or Narawa (covers 11, 13, and 15) will provide impact from bench imo.
This team has two tactical kickers capable of successfully pulling off 50-22s (depending on angles and field position) and enough pace to prevent many quick throw-ins.
The 10-12-13 combination has real attacking venom. However, in defence, their power can be used against some of the best opposition 10s (e.g. Sascha, Ntamack, any wallaby 10) in two ways:
i) Having a sizeable 10 who can tackle and perhaps achieve dominant tackles, it might create turnover opportunities (something that both Timoci and Leicester specialise in)
ii) Since Sascha, Libbok, and Ntamack are more likely to run with the ball than kick, the 10-12-13 axis may have opportunities to execute a turnover of possession via the "held up...maul" method. For some unknown reason, the boks have probably been the most vulnerable to this tactic over the years.
Speed of NZ wingers and outside backs (4 levels):
ELITE:
Tangitau
Taumoefolau
Carter
MansonNEAR-ELITE:
Clarke
ENSGOOD PACE:
Jordan
NarawaSLOW:
Reece
ReikoUNDER THE HIGH (2 levels):
ELITE:
Clarke
Taumoefolau
Tangitau
Kneepkens
Narawa
ENSSUSPECT:
Jordan
Reece
RiekoLoose Trio:
I believe that Savea unbalances any loose trio that he is part of in much the same as Beauden Barrett unbalances any backline.
Tbh, Sititi is short for an 8 and his predecessor Savea was/is ridiculously light for an 8. Consequently, it's difficult for them to dominate any collision in a game. On the other hand, I think NZ has plenty of short locks who could add value in the loose trio.
6
Choose a fiery short lock e.g. Vaa'i8
Choose a quicker* short lock (perhaps 1cm or 2cm shorter and +/- 2kg lighter than the Vaa'i type) perhaps Ah kuoi OR a more physically abrasive type Will Stoddart Or Zach Gallagher.Basically, the all Blacks need more size at 6 and 8. So, a loose trio like the following:
- Vaai
- Lakai OR Dalton
- Stodart
Front Row:
- Williams
- Lomax/Tosi
Locks:
Holland
Patty T
DarrylThat's about it.
Added upvote for thoroughness, but does not indicate agreement.
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@antipodean said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@hikastags said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@antipodean said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@S3L3CTOR said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@antipodean He was pretty good in the Top 14.
Statistically he was one of, if not the worst centers defensively.
If he was so shit he wouldn't of been a finalist for Top14 midfielder of the year.
How many centers were in the finals, 14? Where was this voting taking place, Crusaders HQ?
His defence is clearly not up to the standard required, I don't know why people try to defend the indefensible.
Cringe.
His defense in the Top14 wasn't as crap as it's been now. Like everyone else, they've gotten worse under Razor.
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@hikastags said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@antipodean said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@hikastags said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@antipodean said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@S3L3CTOR said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@antipodean He was pretty good in the Top 14.
Statistically he was one of, if not the worst centers defensively.
If he was so shit he wouldn't of been a finalist for Top14 midfielder of the year.
How many centers were in the finals, 14? Where was this voting taking place, Crusaders HQ?
His defence is clearly not up to the standard required, I don't know why people try to defend the indefensible.
Cringe.
His defense in the Top14 wasn't as crap as it's been now. Like everyone else, they've gotten worse under Razor.
IIRC it's been well documented he was amongst the worst in his position in the Top14 defensively.
That he's a powerful ball runner isn't being debated. But he can't be a serious choice to play 13 for the All Blacks until this glaring deficiency is addressed.
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@antipodean said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@hikastags said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@antipodean said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@hikastags said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@antipodean said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@S3L3CTOR said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@antipodean He was pretty good in the Top 14.
Statistically he was one of, if not the worst centers defensively.
If he was so shit he wouldn't of been a finalist for Top14 midfielder of the year.
How many centers were in the finals, 14? Where was this voting taking place, Crusaders HQ?
His defence is clearly not up to the standard required, I don't know why people try to defend the indefensible.
Cringe.
His defense in the Top14 wasn't as crap as it's been now. Like everyone else, they've gotten worse under Razor.
IIRC it's been well documented he was amongst the worst in his position in the Top14 defensively.
That he's a powerful ball runner isn't being debated. But he can't be a serious choice to play 13 for the All Blacks until this glaring deficiency is addressed.
Yeah fair enough . Agree also regarding 13... I think his game is better suited to 12 where it's more direct.
And he's put on too much bulk to be a winger now.
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@hikastags I'd be more amenable to that - see if he can grow into being our new Ma'a.
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I like the idea of him at 12.
However, if they plan to go back to Mo’unga and those loop plays to give him space, we’ll need distribution at 12. Given the actual innovation shown so far, I imagine that back to the future Crusaders style is the golden ticket they are clinging on to….
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@antipodean said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@hikastags I'd be more amenable to that - see if he can grow into being our new Ma'a.
Get him some NFL running back style coaching to teach him now to avoid fumbling the ball during hit ups
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@gt12 said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@Victor-Meldrew said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@Bones said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
Blackdragon is back baby.
Woosh.
Is that before your time?
Must have been.
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@gt12 said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
I like the idea of him at 12.
However, if they plan to go back to Mo’unga and those loop plays to give him space, we’ll need distribution at 12. Given the actual innovation shown so far, I imagine that back to the future Crusaders style is the golden ticket they are clinging on to….
And what a golden ticket it is.
I recently watched a few replays from the 06 to 09 period. If we take the 06 and 07 seasons it was a really interesting time for the ABs in terms of how we played. Specific to the backs, we were in that post Umaga phase where in the midfield we went through a lot of different players and combos. In 25 matches we used 4 different 2nd 5s and 6 different centres resulting in 12 different midfield combos tried. The combo that played the RWC QF had only played twice previously in tests, once on 06 against the Boks and then in a pool match of the 07 Cup against Italy.
And of those 12 different combos, not once did Nonu and Conrad feature as the 12 and 13 - which became the main combo of the 08 and 09 seasons (18 of the 29 tests). And it wasn’t clear at the end of 07 that the future lied in Nonu and Conrad. But they were selected in 08 and allowed to build test experience together - so much so Nonu only missed one test at 2nd 5 in 2008 (and DC started there). And Nonu only played with Conrad and Kahui.
We’ve tried a few different combos over the last 2 seasons (9 in 27 tests). What the next 2 seasons hold for our midfield, who knows. We have some players there that may or may not feature by the end of it.
If it were me I do like QT in there in either position. There’s some work ons but if Jordie is our 12 then QT would be a good option at 13. LF as a bench option pending improved positioning and reads.
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@ACT-Crusader TT a fairly like for like replacement for QT I'd say.
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@reprobate said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
His defence is not good. His ball security is not good. Work rate is good, and ball in hand he's really fucking good.
So, bench? Better bench option than Rieko Ioane?
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@ACT-Crusader wasnt it also that in those 25 tests, not once did the same duo start in the mid-field in consecutive tests.
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@nostrildamus said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@reprobate said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
His defence is not good. His ball security is not good. Work rate is good, and ball in hand he's really fucking good.
So, bench? Better bench option than Rieko Ioane?
I'm a bit contrarian on bench theory, in that I think high risk / high reward error-prone players are the last thing you want if you are either defending a lead or trying to mount a comeback - in either case controlling possession is very important. My reference point for that is the Dublin comeback against Ireland - just everybody doing their role well at high intensity with no mistakes.
So while I love the impact ball in hand, I see it more as something LF needs to fix if he's going to fulfil his obvious potential, rather than something which can be accepted if he's limited to a bench role. The upside means he is definitely worth working with, but I don't think we score the tries we did on the weekend with LF at centre, despite the historic criticism of RI's distribution. Strangely enough the thing RI's almost universally defended for, his defence, was a bit shit.
We've actually got a lot of good midfielders, but the best possible combination remains a bit of a mystery. RI is a good player, and was excellent in RWC 2023. JB/QT in Perth was our best for the season, but that was outside McKenzie which is an unfair advantage. Proctor teething issues for sure, but lots of very good players do - he was very good in Super and had his best game vs Scotland I thought. ALB showed he is still very good vs Wales. Jim for me was probably the best in Super. Riley Higgins is the most creative 12 in the country. Ennor was probably the best player in the ABXV. -
I really dont understand why they didnt try Leicester at 12 and keep Tupaea at 13 on this end of year tour. Instead they swapped them around.
I really like what I've seen from Higgins so hopefully he can stay fit and put himself in the frame - would be a good way to manage Jordie's minutes at the Canes too by giving Riley time at 12.
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@KiwiMurph said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
I really dont understand why they didnt try Leicester at 12 and keep Tupaea at 13 on this end of year tour. Instead they swapped them around.
I really like what I've seen from Higgins so hopefully he can stay fit and put himself in the frame - would be a good way to manage Jordie's minutes at the Canes too by giving Riley time at 12.
One of those Canes needs to move. Like Jacomb at the Chiefs. Proctor, Higgins, Barrett all need to be starting for the good of NZ rugby.
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@ACT-Crusader said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
@gt12 said in What new players would you like to see in all blacks next year:
I like the idea of him at 12.
However, if they plan to go back to Mo’unga and those loop plays to give him space, we’ll need distribution at 12. Given the actual innovation shown so far, I imagine that back to the future Crusaders style is the golden ticket they are clinging on to….
And what a golden ticket it is.
I recently watched a few replays from the 06 to 09 period. If we take the 06 and 07 seasons it was a really interesting time for the ABs in terms of how we played. Specific to the backs, we were in that post Umaga phase where in the midfield we went through a lot of different players and combos. In 25 matches we used 4 different 2nd 5s and 6 different centres resulting in 12 different midfield combos tried. The combo that played the RWC QF had only played twice previously in tests, once on 06 against the Boks and then in a pool match of the 07 Cup against Italy.
And of those 12 different combos, not once did Nonu and Conrad feature as the 12 and 13 - which became the main combo of the 08 and 09 seasons (18 of the 29 tests). And it wasn’t clear at the end of 07 that the future lied in Nonu and Conrad. But they were selected in 08 and allowed to build test experience together - so much so Nonu only missed one test at 2nd 5 in 2008 (and DC started there). And Nonu only played with Conrad and Kahui.
We’ve tried a few different combos over the last 2 seasons (9 in 27 tests). What the next 2 seasons hold for our midfield, who knows. We have some players there that may or may not feature by the end of it.
If it were me I do like QT in there in either position. There’s some work ons but if Jordie is our 12 then QT would be a good option at 13. LF as a bench option pending improved positioning and reads.
Nonu and Smith have been talked up for yonks and fair enough but crikey what we'd give for Kahui right now. Seriously classy player when his body held together. Defensive rock, clever attacker, very good distributor......would walk into the ABs now.
