Worst All Black RWC exits
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@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Siam said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
I'm shocked at how quickly Fat guts plummeted in my mind.
If somebody else described my 180degree honest thoughts uturn about Hansen, I'd accuse them of being shallow and disloyal.I used to rave about him, but after the last couple of years I can't summon up the same affection.
I'd have to see who it was in case it was just petty provincialism but I remember copping it after posting something following the 2018 EOYT saying if they didn't win the RWC Hansen was going to be John Hart just over twice as long.
I'd say that is about right. First half impeccable. Leadership group leaves. Second half irredeemable.
Except Hansen won Bill once
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@Victor-Meldrew possibly a bit of both, but maybe McCaw was the catalyst that drove those around him to strive for greatness, that again, a number achieved
@taniwharugby said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Victor-Meldrew possibly a bit of both, but maybe McCaw was the catalyst that drove those around him to strive for greatness, that again, a number achieved
That 2011 RWC final, as squeaky bum as it was, and the conditions were such that the bounce (or skid) of the footy could be the difference between pain or glory, the way McCaw played I just had that feeling that he wasn’t going to let us lose. There was something about it.
Sports have produced some amazing moments, but on the very rare occasion it throws up something like that almost mystical where no matter what (we didn’t really play great), but someone like a McCaw steps up when needed.
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@Nepia said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@canefan said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@taniwharugby said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Victor-Meldrew that was the bizaare thing, with the team selected we thought we must have had a game plan to utilise it, but we didnt. Instead playing to the plan that needed Cane out there.
I hope that wasn't Fozzie's master plan....
Considering Fozzie has named Cane as his captain I don't think leaving him on the bench features in his master plan.
That could just be a ruse to deflect all the blame onto Shag, though
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Nepia said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@canefan said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@taniwharugby said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Victor-Meldrew that was the bizaare thing, with the team selected we thought we must have had a game plan to utilise it, but we didnt. Instead playing to the plan that needed Cane out there.
I hope that wasn't Fozzie's master plan....
Considering Fozzie has named Cane as his captain I don't think leaving him on the bench features in his master plan.
That could just be a ruse to deflect all the blame onto Shag, though
I said the exact same thing in another thread!
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@kiwiinmelb said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
people barely gave a fuck about either of those things.
I did. The Ireland loss I was fucking furious. Especially given the lead up looked like a car crash waiting to happen.
Which one?
I think Chicago could be written off because well... it happened in Chicago.
Dublin was infuriating because it was heavily hyped and they didn't front the week before against England.
That is probably when the alarm bells first started to ring not just by the score , but how we failed to get anything threatening going
An under strength England team pushed us all the way and then Ireland beat us ,
I think we got too comfortable playing so many games against Australian teams who almost play into our hands , when these other teams threw something different against us ,particularly in defense, we struggled to cope
The alarm bells should have started ringing after the two matches against the Boks in 2018. In both, we were completely shit and they exposed our frailties upfront, our lack of physicality in the midfield, our inability to deal with the rush defence and also our lack of composure under pressure with the match in the balance (at least in the first test). I don't think any match before then exposed all of our weaknesses in such a manner.
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@kiwiinmelb said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
people barely gave a fuck about either of those things.
I did. The Ireland loss I was fucking furious. Especially given the lead up looked like a car crash waiting to happen.
Which one?
I think Chicago could be written off because well... it happened in Chicago.
Dublin was infuriating because it was heavily hyped and they didn't front the week before against England.
That is probably when the alarm bells first started to ring not just by the score , but how we failed to get anything threatening going
An under strength England team pushed us all the way and then Ireland beat us ,
I think we got too comfortable playing so many games against Australian teams who almost play into our hands , when these other teams threw something different against us ,particularly in defense, we struggled to cope
The alarm bells should have started ringing after the two matches against the Boks in 2018. In both, we were completely shit and they exposed our frailties upfront, our lack of physicality in the midfield, our inability to deal with the rush defence and also our lack of composure under pressure with the match in the balance (at least in the first test). I don't think any match before then exposed all of our weaknesses in such a manner.
Yeah you are right ,in hindsight I should’ve, but I was hoping it was an aberration.... we will get this fixed , Hansen is a smart guy , they are holding stuff back Etc etc
But with the NH tour , he dressed it up as a practice run for the WC , playing tough games in successive weeks , here they go I thought, now they get serious ,
well at least he was consistent , we were poor in both -
@kiwiinmelb said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
people barely gave a fuck about either of those things.
I did. The Ireland loss I was fucking furious. Especially given the lead up looked like a car crash waiting to happen.
Which one?
I think Chicago could be written off because well... it happened in Chicago.
Dublin was infuriating because it was heavily hyped and they didn't front the week before against England.
That is probably when the alarm bells first started to ring not just by the score , but how we failed to get anything threatening going
An under strength England team pushed us all the way and then Ireland beat us ,
I think we got too comfortable playing so many games against Australian teams who almost play into our hands , when these other teams threw something different against us ,particularly in defense, we struggled to cope
The alarm bells should have started ringing after the two matches against the Boks in 2018. In both, we were completely shit and they exposed our frailties upfront, our lack of physicality in the midfield, our inability to deal with the rush defence and also our lack of composure under pressure with the match in the balance (at least in the first test). I don't think any match before then exposed all of our weaknesses in such a manner.
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
The alarm bells should have started ringing after the two matches against the Boks in 2018. In both, we were completely shit
disagree. We dominated them all over the paddock in Wellington, and it was only a couple of freak tries that got them over the line.
Agree in Pretoria - we won, but were terrible all game.
In both games arguably the worse team won
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McCaw and Carter were rare talents, but I also think they took a lot from 2007. Unfortunately, I think that determination is a product of losing, so teams have to lose occasionally to work out what to do when things get tough.
@Godder said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
McCaw and Carter were rare talents, but I also think they took a lot from 2007. Unfortunately, I think that determination is a product of losing, so teams have to lose occasionally to work out what to do when things get tough.
The quantum leap came between 2003 and 2007 though.
2007 succeeded in making them incredibly paranoid about contingency planning (thank God) and approaching the RWC as a tournament rather than a series of one of games.
The learning curve to a win a RWC does seem a little romanticized, even though it's totally understandable after taking 24 years. Looking at the Boks last two RWC wins and Australia in 2015 there is no reason that with good management and NZ's player pool that we can't put together a successful RWC campaign together from scratch 18-24 months out from a RWC.
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It's clear to me that to win a RWC you still need the stars to align for you. Look at South Africa - they've got three and one of them required a team to be sick, to be there at the end because the best team was unceremoniously bundled out and an early loss putting you on the easy side of the draw.
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@nzzp said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@sparky said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
ITV4 are showing the 2003 Australia-New Zealand Semi Final again later today. I would rather stick pins in my eyes that watch that again.
Mils scored in the corner.
Sure. And a Dingo Stole Your World Cup.
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@NTA said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Worst All Black Exits for me: 2011 and 2015.
No hatred for 1987 when the Wallabies were nailed on unbackable favourites going into the RWC?
@Nepia said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@NTA said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Worst All Black Exits for me: 2011 and 2015.
No hatred for 1987 when the Wallabies were nailed on unbackable favourites going into the RWC?
Before my time in rugby.
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@Nepia said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@NTA said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Worst All Black Exits for me: 2011 and 2015.
No hatred for 1987 when the Wallabies were nailed on unbackable favourites going into the RWC?
Before my time in rugby.
@NTA said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Nepia said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@NTA said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Worst All Black Exits for me: 2011 and 2015.
No hatred for 1987 when the Wallabies were nailed on unbackable favourites going into the RWC?
Before my time in rugby.
Were you a bogan back then? AFL or State House Rugby?
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It's clear to me that to win a RWC you still need the stars to align for you. Look at South Africa - they've got three and one of them required a team to be sick, to be there at the end because the best team was unceremoniously bundled out and an early loss putting you on the easy side of the draw.
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
It's clear to me that to win a RWC you still need the stars to align for you. Look at South Africa - they've got three and one of them required a team to be sick, to be there at the end because the best team was unceremoniously bundled out and an early loss putting you on the easy side of the draw.
Agreed, unless you have a special team that is clearly better than the rest. SA seem to have all the luck in the world when it comes to RWCs. If we had lost that opening match to them, I think we would still be World Champs now.
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@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
It's clear to me that to win a RWC you still need the stars to align for you. Look at South Africa - they've got three and one of them required a team to be sick, to be there at the end because the best team was unceremoniously bundled out and an early loss putting you on the easy side of the draw.
Agreed, unless you have a special team that is clearly better than the rest. SA seem to have all the luck in the world when it comes to RWCs. If we had lost that opening match to them, I think we would still be World Champs now.
@akan004 said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
It's clear to me that to win a RWC you still need the stars to align for you. Look at South Africa - they've got three and one of them required a team to be sick, to be there at the end because the best team was unceremoniously bundled out and an early loss putting you on the easy side of the draw.
Agreed, unless you have a special team that is clearly better than the rest. SA seem to have all the luck in the world when it comes to RWCs. If we had lost that opening match to them, I think we would still be World Champs now.
yep, and gnashing our teeth about our record of never losing a pool game at a RWC. Remarkable, really - SA have lost three, and most others aren't even close!
... and yet we have only won 3. Roll on 2023
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@NTA said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Nepia said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@NTA said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Worst All Black Exits for me: 2011 and 2015.
No hatred for 1987 when the Wallabies were nailed on unbackable favourites going into the RWC?
Before my time in rugby.
Were you a bogan back then? AFL or State House Rugby?
@Nepia said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@NTA said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Nepia said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@NTA said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Worst All Black Exits for me: 2011 and 2015.
No hatred for 1987 when the Wallabies were nailed on unbackable favourites going into the RWC?
Before my time in rugby.
Were you a bogan back then? AFL or State House Rugby?
Parents were South Australians (Aussie Rules) living in rural NSW - all league where I went to school. Wasn't even aware of a second code of Rugby until high school.
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@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
The alarm bells should have started ringing after the two matches against the Boks in 2018. In both, we were completely shit
disagree. We dominated them all over the paddock in Wellington, and it was only a couple of freak tries that got them over the line.
Agree in Pretoria - we won, but were terrible all game.
In both games arguably the worse team won
@nzzp said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
The alarm bells should have started ringing after the two matches against the Boks in 2018. In both, we were completely shit
disagree. We dominated them all over the paddock in Wellington, and it was only a couple of freak tries that got them over the line.
Agree in Pretoria - we won, but were terrible all game.
In both games arguably the worse team won
Yeah, I agree we actually played better in there match we lost, but I don't agree we were anything better than poor in that match. We did dominate patches of that match, but then we followed up those decent patches with complete shite. We were helter skelter for most of the match, we reacted poorly to their pressure (inlcluding by gifting them tries) and completely bottled it when the match was in the balance. All of the things we did poorly in that match should have been cause for concern, but its clear they weren't because we repeated many of those things in the ensuing 12 months
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Re 2019 semi, for all the talk about mental toughness or selections if you tell me that Read, Whitelock and Rettallick were all going to have poor games I think I will tell you its really unlikely that the ABs could ever win. Don't think I could fault Hansen for choosing any of them. I still think he was right with the Mounga/ Barrett combo despite how hysterical some people were after the game. The only chance to recall Ben Smith to the starting line up was the SA game, but the young wingers came through again so it was next to impossible after that. I would have had him on the bench but watching Jordie's goal kicking this year I can see what he was thinking. Also I see what he was thinking choosing S. Barrett but in a way he lost a confidence in what was initially an unconventional decision to play Ardie at 6/8 with Cane.
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@Snowy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@sdrggyy Wayne Barnes ruined my faith in rugby that day I was fuming sitting in the stands. I also believe that he was there to make sure that we lost. An entire game of rugby and one side only gets penalised twice? France of all teams too? Beggars belief. I think that I have been to two internationals since and not one world cup match because of it.
Barnes was badly let down by his touch judges
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Snowy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@sdrggyy Wayne Barnes ruined my faith in rugby that day I was fuming sitting in the stands. I also believe that he was there to make sure that we lost. An entire game of rugby and one side only gets penalised twice? France of all teams too? Beggars belief. I think that I have been to two internationals since and not one world cup match because of it.
Barnes was badly let down by his touch judges
In Times [EDIT] today WB said the TMO spotted it real time, but wasn’t allowed to inform onfield team.
