All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023
-
I've taken last years Super Rugby stats and adjusted them for the amount of game time. The figures are essentially what we might expect from each player if they were to play for 80 mins.
-
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bobily2 that is some godawful reading for Joe & Karl.
Might be time for both to be dropped, unless they have stellar seasons in SR.
Hodgman, Ross, and De Groot, with Tu'ungufasi covering both sides?
Oli Norris as bolter?
@tim said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bobily2 that is some godawful reading for Joe & Karl.
Might be time for both to be dropped, unless they have stellar seasons in SR.
Hodgman, Ross, and De Groot, with Tu'ungufasi covering both sides?
From @Chris post above, Williams might be being set up to be the new Ofa/Moli.
I'd personally prefer Ofa to focus on TH and us develop another both side option.
-
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bobily2 that is some godawful reading for Joe & Karl.
Might be time for both to be dropped, unless they have stellar seasons in SR.
Hodgman, Ross, and De Groot, with Tu'ungufasi covering both sides?
Oli Norris as bolter?
-
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Norris
I added him in an edit shortly after my initial post.
-
@tim yeah I saw, I was just surprised he hadn't really been talked about already. I know nothing of him, but the stats look handy.
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@tim yeah I saw, I was just surprised he hadn't really been talked about already. I know nothing of him, but the stats look handy.
He's had fuck-all game time so far, but I hope he turns out good. That data doesn't have total minutes played, but I assume his are really low.
-
@tim said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bobily2 Where are those stats from? I've found the Rugbypass data to be pretty poor.
https://super.rugby/superrugby/fixtures/archives/2021-super-rugby-aotearoa/
The data is from Opta, so the stats provider that NZ rugby uses.
-
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@tim yeah I saw, I was just surprised he hadn't really been talked about already. I know nothing of him, but the stats look handy.
He's had fuck-all game time so far, but I hope he turns out good. That data doesn't have total minutes played, but I assume his are really low.
@gt12 said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@tim yeah I saw, I was just surprised he hadn't really been talked about already. I know nothing of him, but the stats look handy.
He's had fuck-up game time so far, but I hope he turns out good. That data doesn't have total minutes played, but I assume his are really low.
I'll try include actual mins played in anything else I put out there. Ollie Norris had 300 mins.
-
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@tim yeah I saw, I was just surprised he hadn't really been talked about already. I know nothing of him, but the stats look handy.
He's had fuck-all game time so far, but I hope he turns out good. That data doesn't have total minutes played, but I assume his are really low.
@gt12 said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
He's had fuck-up game time so far, but I hope he turns out good. That data doesn't have total minutes played, but I assume his are really low.
Yeah, there will be guys who come off the bench late in the game, and will probably get relatively more run metres and less tackles because of that.
-
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@tim yeah I saw, I was just surprised he hadn't really been talked about already. I know nothing of him, but the stats look handy.
He's had fuck-all game time so far, but I hope he turns out good. That data doesn't have total minutes played, but I assume his are really low.
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@tim yeah I saw, I was just surprised he hadn't really been talked about already. I know nothing of him, but the stats look handy.
He's had fuck-up game time so far, but I hope he turns out good. That data doesn't have total minutes played, but I assume his are really low.
I'll try include actual mins played in anything else I put out there. Ollie Norris had 300 mins.
@bobily2 said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@gt12 said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@tim yeah I saw, I was just surprised he hadn't really been talked about already. I know nothing of him, but the stats look handy.
He's had fuck-up game time so far, but I hope he turns out good. That data doesn't have total minutes played, but I assume his are really low.
I'll try include actual mins played in anything else I put out there. Ollie Norris had 300 mins.
I love this data btw, it's really cool!
-
@bobily2 said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@gt12 said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@tim yeah I saw, I was just surprised he hadn't really been talked about already. I know nothing of him, but the stats look handy.
He's had fuck-up game time so far, but I hope he turns out good. That data doesn't have total minutes played, but I assume his are really low.
I'll try include actual mins played in anything else I put out there. Ollie Norris had 300 mins.
I love this data btw, it's really cool!
@gt12 said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bobily2 said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@gt12 said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@tim yeah I saw, I was just surprised he hadn't really been talked about already. I know nothing of him, but the stats look handy.
He's had fuck-up game time so far, but I hope he turns out good. That data doesn't have total minutes played, but I assume his are really low.
I'll try include actual mins played in anything else I put out there. Ollie Norris had 300 mins.
I love this data btw, it's really cool!
Great, I'll try and share little snippets of it where it might be relevant. I don't have much for NPC or All Blacks, unfortunately. But if people find reliable sources for these I can see if i can do something with those too.
-
Lets start at number one, loosehead prop.
Joe Moody is 33 and can barely carry the ball now, is an average defender, and hasn't been a dominant scrummager at international level for at least two seasons. Still good in the maul. Only in the running as a starter, IMO. If he's in our first choice world cup 23 then we're probably in trouble.
The other options in the squad that were allowed to play test rugby were Bower and Tu'inukuafe. Neither are what you'd call dynamic. Tu'inukuafe really only in there for scrummaging and maul work. Bower as injury cover.
DeGroot is more athletic, but scrummaging and ability to play at test level are unexamined.
Further options are Aidan Ross and Alex Hodgman. Ross was very good in SRA, but faded in SRTT. Hodgman got suspended for a particularly stupid high tackle in SRA, but came back pretty well, and was very good in the SRTT final.
Apparently there's a young guy at the Crusaders, but did he play much NPC? I didn't notice him.
Atu Moli may play rugby again someday.
I suspect that Ofa Tu'ungafasi, with an off-season to recover from injury, will return to his 2019 role, and play a lot at loosehead.
-
@tim I rate both De Groot and Hodgman, Bower less so. Karl T is a strength man but doesn't offer much with the ball in hand.
@sparky said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@tim I rate both De Groot and Hodgman, Bower less so. Karl T is a strength man but doesn't offer much with the ball in hand.
Karl T does actually seem to be okay on attack - he just doesn't carry as often as some of the props. Similarly, he doesn't make many tackles. Presumably he needs to keep working on his fitness.
As much as I like the guy, unless he is winning scrums, there doesn't seem to be much reason to be picking him ahead of some of these other options e.g. Hodgman.
-
@sparky said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@tim I rate both De Groot and Hodgman, Bower less so. Karl T is a strength man but doesn't offer much with the ball in hand.
Karl T does actually seem to be okay on attack - he just doesn't carry as often as some of the props. Similarly, he doesn't make many tackles. Presumably he needs to keep working on his fitness.
As much as I like the guy, unless he is winning scrums, there doesn't seem to be much reason to be picking him ahead of some of these other options e.g. Hodgman.
-
Ypu could always rely on Franks to move bodies at ruck time. He was really excellent at it
-
Ypu could always rely on Franks to move bodies at ruck time. He was really excellent at it
@mariner4life if he got there
-
October 2023 might be a year too far for Moody, and a year too early for the likes of Norris and Brewis.
Bower's scrummaging and physicality are not at the required level against teams such as England, Ireland, France and SA.
So it is urgent to develop players like De Groot and Hodgman. They are young, big, dynamic and physical. Their scrummaging needs a lot of improvement but this can be fixed. But I am more worried about their lack of mongrel. They must be tested during the series against Ireland where they would face the world's best THP. A serious challenge that should provide some answers or more head-scratching.
