All Blacks 2022
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The point of listing players like that is to see how difficult it actually is to put together a XV at this stage.
I would only ink in maybe 8 players with question marks around some.
Absolute definite would be few, maybe Cane, Smith, ALB, Jordie, Jordan.
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@crucial i was going to ask how chiefs fans though Ioane was going
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial i was going to ask how chiefs fans though Ioane was going
I think I share what looks to be the coaches view that he isn't as solid as Gatland but is better at setting the backs up.
I like some of what he does, running on to the ball, long passing game etc but not sure if the ABs can use that in the test environment. -
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial i was going to ask how chiefs fans though Ioane was going
I think I share what looks to be the coaches view that he isn't as solid as Gatland but is better at setting the backs up.
I like some of what he does, running on to the ball, long passing game etc but not sure if the ABs can use that in the test environment.@crucial sounds like you're going through exactly what we did...why we brought in Gatland and Hunt to be something different to Ioane, hope it doesn't end up like it did with us
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@chris-b said in All Blacks 2022:
He's an import
nooooo
seriously?
an import? In the South Central Vikings?
I for one am shocked. Shocked i tell you
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2022:
He's an import
nooooo
seriously?
an import? In the South Central Vikings?
I for one am shocked. Shocked i tell you
Pah!
If everyone else had produced as many good players as us, we wouldn't need to be having these fearful conversations about France and Ireland.
Frankly, if anyone else had....
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2022:
He's an import
nooooo
seriously?
an import? In the South Central Vikings?
I for one am shocked. Shocked i tell you
Pah!
If everyone else had produced as many good players as us, we wouldn't need to be having these fearful conversations about France and Ireland.
Frankly, if anyone else had....
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2022:
He's an import
nooooo
seriously?
an import? In the South Central Vikings?
I for one am shocked. Shocked i tell you
Pah!
If everyone else had produced as many good players as us, we wouldn't need to be having these fearful conversations about France and Ireland.
Frankly, if anyone else had....
You're pronouncing imported wrong.
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Here's the backs.
Halfback
At Risk
TJPWill be kept on
Christie
WeberDefinites
SmithAll our eggs are in the speed basket here.
First-fives
Gone
DMacDefinites
B Barrett
MoungaWould like to see one of the bubbling under 10s in Super put their hand up and I think we need a third option for touring. There is an open spot.
Midfield
At Risk
Ennor
Definite
ALB
R IoaneWill be kept on
Tupaea
HaviliHavili will probably stay around as utility but room for others to show their wares. (RTS, post injury Goodhue). We still aren't fixed in this area but I don't buy into the obsession that we need to settle on two and play them all the time.
Three-quarters
At Risk
BridgeWill be kept on
ReeceDefinite
Jordan
J BarrettWhen you drop Reiko into the midfield box we are surprisingly light on options here. Wingers can sometimes appear as a flash iin the pan at the right time and there are a few around that could hit form to do just that. If we want Jordie to use his attacking instincts like Bender used to then we need Jordan to play as a second fullback. Strike winger should be whoever is on a hot streak and can finish attacks in traffic. That removes Bridge from the equation IMO.
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Don't we have a Fozzie thread somewhere?
Can we get this one back to discussing the 2022 ABs?After all the players are the ones that form the backbone here. Who do we think will no longer make the cut? Who will be held on to while someone is is given experience? Who will def be there?
The AB website lists 42! players as current squad (because of the messy end of the year). 26 forwards and 16 backs.
Here's the forwards as a starter.
Props
At Risk
Lomax
Ta'avao
de Groot
Bower
Moody
Tu'inukuafe
Laulala
TuungafasiI don't see any of these players as being must haves. This area of selection is(and should be) wide open. There are a few guys playing very well at the moment that could be the future.
Hooker
At Risk
AumuaWill be kept on
Taylor
ColesDefinite
Tuakei'ahoThe same four will probably stay.
Locks
Will be kept on
Whitelock
Retallick
S Barrett
Vai'i
LordGone
TuipulotuI don't see any changes here. I think they have invested in some new boys and will stick with them. Maybe add one more in to the squad if there is room through injury during the year.
Loose Forwards
At Risk
Blackadder
Frizell
JacobsenWill be kept on
Ioane
SotutuDefinite
Cane
Savea
PapaliiThree opensiders are the only must haves here. You could actually make a decent back three out of them.
The search for a 6 that compliments Ardie at 8 continues.@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Don't we have a Fozzie thread somewhere?
Can we get this one back to discussing the 2022 ABs?After all the players are the ones that form the backbone here. Who do we think will no longer make the cut? Who will be held on to while someone is is given experience? Who will def be there?
The AB website lists 42! players as current squad (because of the messy end of the year). 26 forwards and 16 backs.
Here's the forwards as a starter.
Props
At Risk
Lomax
Ta'avao
de Groot
Bower
Moody
Tu'inukuafe
Laulala
TuungafasiI don't see any of these players as being must haves. This area of selection is(and should be) wide open. There are a few guys playing very well at the moment that could be the future.
I doubt that Fozzie sees it this way, though.
We're not going to find enough new guys to push all these eight out.
At the end of the last Super season I thought there was a Chiefs prop - probably Ross, but I can't actually remember - who was a bit unlucky not to make the team. I think de Groot probably got his place.. Otherwise, the cupboard looks pretty bare.
Tamaiti Williams is an exciting prospect - long term - but, not many others catching my eye.
You'd hope Fozzie has identified 3-4 of our current guys who he's definitely carrying forward - but, also a couple who he's definitely cutting to make space.
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Don't we have a Fozzie thread somewhere?
Can we get this one back to discussing the 2022 ABs?After all the players are the ones that form the backbone here. Who do we think will no longer make the cut? Who will be held on to while someone is is given experience? Who will def be there?
The AB website lists 42! players as current squad (because of the messy end of the year). 26 forwards and 16 backs.
Here's the forwards as a starter.
Props
At Risk
Lomax
Ta'avao
de Groot
Bower
Moody
Tu'inukuafe
Laulala
TuungafasiI don't see any of these players as being must haves. This area of selection is(and should be) wide open. There are a few guys playing very well at the moment that could be the future.
I doubt that Fozzie sees it this way, though.
We're not going to find enough new guys to push all these eight out.
At the end of the last Super season I thought there was a Chiefs prop - probably Ross, but I can't actually remember - who was a bit unlucky not to make the team. I think de Groot probably got his place.. Otherwise, the cupboard looks pretty bare.
Tamaiti Williams is an exciting prospect - long term - but, not many others catching my eye.
You'd hope Fozzie has identified 3-4 of our current guys who he's definitely carrying forward - but, also a couple who he's definitely cutting to make space.
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@crucial where did you hear Dmac not returning to NZ? Thought he was back in May and keen on time at 10.
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@chris-b I think Moody is safe. But hopefully a couple of Norris Hodgman Ross and Williams come in
@arhs I think Moody, Tuúngafasi and Laulala probably all still are - barring catastrophic loss of form.
Lomax and de Groot are still young guys with potential to grow.
I'd be looking most closely at the other three - Ta'avao, Bower and Big Karl. None of them really screaming "Test match prop" to me.
Of course, we don't need eight at any one time - and if you keep the five I've listed above, that doesn't leave much room.
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@crucial Bit early to call, but i don't see ho Tupaea's woeful defence can keep him in the discussion and Havili isn't exactly setting the world on fire to assuage concerns about his Test form.
Of all positions, the midfield is the most contentious an open. Only ALB is guaranteed, RIoane by virtue of being a guaranteed winger if not centre.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial Bit early to call, but i don't see ho Tupaea's woeful defence can keep him in the discussion and Havili isn't exactly setting the world on fire to assuage concerns about his Test form.
Of all positions, the midfield is the most contentious an open. Only ALB is guaranteed, RIoane by virtue of being a guaranteed winger if not centre.
I see it that way too Not convinced about Tupaea, his defence is weak and he doesn't look to his outsides or insides enough so dies with the ball.
Havilli started well but I am not convinced he is the answer either. -
@arhs I think Moody, Tuúngafasi and Laulala probably all still are - barring catastrophic loss of form.
Lomax and de Groot are still young guys with potential to grow.
I'd be looking most closely at the other three - Ta'avao, Bower and Big Karl. None of them really screaming "Test match prop" to me.
Of course, we don't need eight at any one time - and if you keep the five I've listed above, that doesn't leave much room.
There have been unusually large AB squads over the last 2 years because of the covid circumstances. If a 35-man squad is selected again then 8 props become 6 and some tough selection decisions will have to be made in almost all of the other positions. Of course, you need to retain some experience but current performance/form and not reputation should count.
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I think on props for 2022 these four will be certainties: Moody, Laulala, Tu'ungufasi, Lomax. Hard to see any one else at tight head. Are there any candidates? Ta'avao would have to have a great season in the scrum.
On the loose head side, de Groot, Hodgman, Bower, Tu'inukuafe, Ross, and Norris are probably the contenders. I'd like to see Hodgman and Norris selected, and it would be good to cut Moody now. If Moody starts (can't see him as a bench option) at the world cup then we are in trouble.
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I think on props for 2022 these four will be certainties: Moody, Laulala, Tu'ungufasi, Lomax. Hard to see any one else at tight head. Are there any candidates? Ta'avao would have to have a great season in the scrum.
On the loose head side, de Groot, Hodgman, Bower, Tu'inukuafe, Ross, and Norris are probably the contenders. I'd like to see Hodgman and Norris selected, and it would be good to cut Moody now. If Moody starts (can't see him as a bench option) at the world cup then we are in trouble.
@tim said in All Blacks 2022:
I think on props for 2022 these four will be certainties: Moody, Laulala, Tu'ungufasi, Lomax. Hard to see any one else at tight head. Are there any candidates? Ta'avao would have to have a great season in the scrum.
On the loose head side, de Groot, Hodgman, Bower, Tu'inukuafe, Ross, and Norris are probably the contenders. I'd like to see Hodgman and Norris selected, and it would be good to cut Moody now. If Moody starts (can't see him as a bench option) at the world cup then we are in trouble.
Same could be said for Laulala for the same reason as Moody.
Maybe we should blood Norris at LH and William as a TH.
Stick with De Groot and Hodgeman I don't mind that as LH plus Norris.Select Williams as a TH and retain Tu'ungufasi, Lomax.
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I think on props for 2022 these four will be certainties: Moody, Laulala, Tu'ungufasi, Lomax. Hard to see any one else at tight head. Are there any candidates? Ta'avao would have to have a great season in the scrum.
On the loose head side, de Groot, Hodgman, Bower, Tu'inukuafe, Ross, and Norris are probably the contenders. I'd like to see Hodgman and Norris selected, and it would be good to cut Moody now. If Moody starts (can't see him as a bench option) at the world cup then we are in trouble.
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@tim I'm surprised at people naming Norris. I have seen nothing that suggests he's better than someone like Rakete-Stones.
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
Rakete-Stones.
Rakete-Stones he would be another good investment at LH
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There have been unusually large AB squads over the last 2 years because of the covid circumstances. If a 35-man squad is selected again then 8 props become 6 and some tough selection decisions will have to be made in almost all of the other positions. Of course, you need to retain some experience but current performance/form and not reputation should count.
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I think on props for 2022 these four will be certainties: Moody, Laulala, Tu'ungufasi, Lomax. Hard to see any one else at tight head. Are there any candidates? Ta'avao would have to have a great season in the scrum.
On the loose head side, de Groot, Hodgman, Bower, Tu'inukuafe, Ross, and Norris are probably the contenders. I'd like to see Hodgman and Norris selected, and it would be good to cut Moody now. If Moody starts (can't see him as a bench option) at the world cup then we are in trouble.
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@bovidae Where Tu'ungufasi plays for the Blues has no bearing on his AB selection. He's been in the AB squad for six years.
Don't see any new players coming through at tight head, so they won't drop Laulala, even if it would be better to replace him now. Seems we have more options at loose head. In the past, AB coaches have seemed to expect less around the field from tight heads than loose heads, which may be a poor policy too.
Is Williams going to start games for the Crusaders?
