All Blacks 2022
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@junior I would argue Sam Whitelock has had a bit to do with the success we’ve had during those winning times.
Don't disagree but after a pretty lackluster NH tour there were plenty on here calling time on his career. At the very least he needs to be managed carefully.
@Marty said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@junior I would argue Sam Whitelock has had a bit to do with the success we’ve had during those winning times.
Don't disagree but after a pretty lackluster NH tour there were plenty on here calling time on his career. At the very least he needs to be managed carefully.
That just goes to show they don't know as much as they think they do.
Whitelock is a key cog in that tight five going forward.
I agree giving him some down time is crucial. -
didnt click in it, cos Reason, but you do wonder if the coaches are utilising these ex players and/or coaches where they can, am sure the likes of DC, Richie, Smith (of the Ben variety) et al would be keen to give thier insights, not saying they need to use what they say, but getting other perspectives is key, but I guess you first need to admit you need help and ask for it!
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didnt click in it, cos Reason, but you do wonder if the coaches are utilising these ex players and/or coaches where they can, am sure the likes of DC, Richie, Smith (of the Ben variety) et al would be keen to give thier insights, not saying they need to use what they say, but getting other perspectives is key, but I guess you first need to admit you need help and ask for it!
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
didnt click in it, cos Reason, but you do wonder if the coaches are utilising these ex players and/or coaches where they can, am sure the likes of DC, Richie, Smith (of the Ben variety) et al would be keen to give thier insights, not saying they need to use what they say, but getting other perspectives is key, but I guess you first need to admit you need help and ask for it!
He’s no Rattue but he’s an ok writer, he made some good points.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
didnt click in it, cos Reason, but you do wonder if the coaches are utilising these ex players and/or coaches where they can, am sure the likes of DC, Richie, Smith (of the Ben variety) et al would be keen to give thier insights, not saying they need to use what they say, but getting other perspectives is key, but I guess you first need to admit you need help and ask for it!
He’s no Rattue but he’s an ok writer, he made some good points.
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Finally the drums are starting to beat.
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Someone has already updated the Wikipedia page:
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@ARHS stopped clock and all...he and @MN5 's dad, Rattue have spouted the same vitriol for years (over a decade?) bet they are grinning ear to ear as they type out thier 'articles' with glee at the predicament the ABs find themselves in (TBF, most is of thier own doing) every now and then they do write some insightful pieces, but like most of thier ilk, they get lost amongst the click bait headlines.
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@ARHS stopped clock and all...he and @MN5 's dad, Rattue have spouted the same vitriol for years (over a decade?) bet they are grinning ear to ear as they type out thier 'articles' with glee at the predicament the ABs find themselves in (TBF, most is of thier own doing) every now and then they do write some insightful pieces, but like most of thier ilk, they get lost amongst the click bait headlines.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@ARHS stopped clock and all...he and @MN5 's dad, Rattue have spouted the same vitriol for years (over a decade?) bet they are grinning ear to ear as they type out thier 'articles' with glee at the predicament the ABs find themselves in (TBF, most is of thier own doing) every now and then they do write some insightful pieces, but like most of thier ilk, they get lost amongst the click bait headlines.
Is Rattue still writing ?
Every time there is a NZ Herald article I have to pay for it so I don’t know.
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Someone has already updated the Wikipedia page:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
Someone has already updated the Wikipedia page:
also just changed the captain
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Finally the drums are starting to beat.
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Finally the drums are starting to beat.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Finally the drums are starting to beat.
Someone is reading the Fern. Lazy journalism
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Someone has already updated the Wikipedia page:
@Canes4life check with @Chris @Machpants
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
jesus thats bad
seriously though, is there a chance he's played in all the losses? cant be bothered going back and looking at the squads, if so i wonder about how many head knocks hes had if he cant remember being part of the FIRST loss to ireland and therefore they cant have won in NZ before
sometime i feel a lot of these players wouldn;t even watch rugby if they weren't getting payed to play
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
sometime i feel a lot of these players wouldn;t even watch rugby if they weren't getting payed to play
That is absolutely nothing new though. A few pros I've known often were largely uninterested in anything rugby in their spare time. And I'm thinking back as far as twenty odd years.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@ARHS stopped clock and all...he and @MN5 's dad, Rattue have spouted the same vitriol for years (over a decade?) bet they are grinning ear to ear as they type out thier 'articles' with glee at the predicament the ABs find themselves in (TBF, most is of thier own doing) every now and then they do write some insightful pieces, but like most of thier ilk, they get lost amongst the click bait headlines.
Is Rattue still writing ?
Every time there is a NZ Herald article I have to pay for it so I don’t know.
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@Winger said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
I look at this interview and I wonder much the same thing. Where's the pride? They talk about it but no one seemed upset to be the player that ruined a legacy in a dog shit performance.
It looks to me that the pendulum has gone too far. Once upon a time there were good men who took ownership and drove high performance within the team environment. Now it seems that's taken for granted rather than delegated based on performance.
"It's like an Origin decider" No fluffybunny. It's much more important than that.
Its right at the end if anyone wants to hear the comment (7.25 on)
Ardie does say it does hurt. I thought he came across well. Although the coaches should have stressed the never won in Nz before before the first test
Ardie might be too honest.
The coaches shouldn't need to know this. A good culture driven by high performing players would know their history. Not so long ago I remember players playing out of fear of being the first to lose. This lot appear to be free to "express their skills" as they "walk forward and embrace the challenge" and unencumbered by fear have managed to lose to Argentina, Ireland in Ireland and now Ireland in New Zealand on their way to our lowest historic ranking!
What's next on this rocket ship to mediocrity?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
I look at this interview and I wonder much the same thing. Where's the pride? They talk about it but no one seemed upset to be the player that ruined a legacy in a dog shit performance.
It looks to me that the pendulum has gone too far. Once upon a time there were good men who took ownership and drove high performance within the team environment. Now it seems that's taken for granted rather than delegated based on performance.
"It's like an Origin decider" No fluffybunny. It's much more important than that.
Its right at the end if anyone wants to hear the comment (7.25 on)
Ardie does say it does hurt. I thought he came across well. Although the coaches should have stressed the never won in Nz before before the first test
Ardie might be too honest.
The coaches shouldn't need to know this. A good culture driven by high performing players would know their history. Not so long ago I remember players playing out of fear of being the first to lose. This lot appear to be free to "express their skills" as they "walk forward and embrace the challenge" and unencumbered by fear have managed to lose to Argentina, Ireland in Ireland and now Ireland in New Zealand on their way to our lowest historic ranking!
What's next on this rocket ship to mediocrity?
It did seem that the dubious (and factually incorrect) media campaign about Ireland never winning in New Zealand may have confused the general public, and some diehard fans.
But, I expect that anyone valuing the culture and history of NZ rugby, including the AB coaches, would have known that Ireland won several matches on their tour in 1976 (including against a Manawatu team with 11 All Blacks and a strong North Auckland team lead by Sid Going.) Maybe Ardie was a bit coy, not wanting to embarrass the media and sponsors on that one. They should have left it as "never beaten the All Blacks in NZ" and not made fools of themselves around the first Maori match.
Good on ya Ardie. Having been to an Origin match live, I get the reference.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
I look at this interview and I wonder much the same thing. Where's the pride? They talk about it but no one seemed upset to be the player that ruined a legacy in a dog shit performance.
It looks to me that the pendulum has gone too far. Once upon a time there were good men who took ownership and drove high performance within the team environment. Now it seems that's taken for granted rather than delegated based on performance.
"It's like an Origin decider" No fluffybunny. It's much more important than that.
Its right at the end if anyone wants to hear the comment (7.25 on)
Ardie does say it does hurt. I thought he came across well. Although the coaches should have stressed the never won in Nz before before the first test
Ardie might be too honest.
The coaches shouldn't need to know this. A good culture driven by high performing players would know their history. Not so long ago I remember players playing out of fear of being the first to lose. This lot appear to be free to "express their skills" as they "walk forward and embrace the challenge" and unencumbered by fear have managed to lose to Argentina, Ireland in Ireland and now Ireland in New Zealand on their way to our lowest historic ranking!
What's next on this rocket ship to mediocrity?
It did seem that the dubious (and factually incorrect) media campaign about Ireland never winning in New Zealand may have confused the general public, and some diehard fans.
But, I expect that anyone valuing the culture and history of NZ rugby, including the AB coaches, would have known that Ireland won several matches on their tour in 1976 (including against a Manawatu team with 11 All Blacks and a strong North Auckland team lead by Sid Going.) Maybe Ardie was a bit coy, not wanting to embarrass the media and sponsors on that one. They should have left it as "never beaten the All Blacks in NZ" and not made fools of themselves around the first Maori match.
Good on ya Ardie. Having been to an Origin match live, I get the reference.
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
I look at this interview and I wonder much the same thing. Where's the pride? They talk about it but no one seemed upset to be the player that ruined a legacy in a dog shit performance.
It looks to me that the pendulum has gone too far. Once upon a time there were good men who took ownership and drove high performance within the team environment. Now it seems that's taken for granted rather than delegated based on performance.
"It's like an Origin decider" No fluffybunny. It's much more important than that.
Its right at the end if anyone wants to hear the comment (7.25 on)
Ardie does say it does hurt. I thought he came across well. Although the coaches should have stressed the never won in Nz before before the first test
Ardie might be too honest.
The coaches shouldn't need to know this. A good culture driven by high performing players would know their history. Not so long ago I remember players playing out of fear of being the first to lose. This lot appear to be free to "express their skills" as they "walk forward and embrace the challenge" and unencumbered by fear have managed to lose to Argentina, Ireland in Ireland and now Ireland in New Zealand on their way to our lowest historic ranking!
What's next on this rocket ship to mediocrity?
It did seem that the dubious (and factually incorrect) media campaign about Ireland never winning in New Zealand may have confused the general public, and some diehard fans.
Anyone remotely interested would understand the reference is to Ireland beating the All Blacks.
But, I expect that anyone valuing the culture and history of NZ rugby, including the AB coaches, would have known that Ireland won several matches on their tour in 1976 (including against a Manawatu team with 11 All Blacks and a strong North Auckland team lead by Sid Going.) Maybe Ardie was a bit coy, not wanting to embarrass the media and sponsors on that one. They should have left it as "never beaten the All Blacks in NZ" and not made fools of themselves around the first Maori match.
Good on ya Ardie. Having been to an Origin match live, I get the reference.
Yeah, in messaging to the New Zealand rugby public, he references SoO as if that would explain it to them.
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@ARHS said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
I look at this interview and I wonder much the same thing. Where's the pride? They talk about it but no one seemed upset to be the player that ruined a legacy in a dog shit performance.
It looks to me that the pendulum has gone too far. Once upon a time there were good men who took ownership and drove high performance within the team environment. Now it seems that's taken for granted rather than delegated based on performance.
"It's like an Origin decider" No fluffybunny. It's much more important than that.
Its right at the end if anyone wants to hear the comment (7.25 on)
Ardie does say it does hurt. I thought he came across well. Although the coaches should have stressed the never won in Nz before before the first test
Ardie might be too honest.
The coaches shouldn't need to know this. A good culture driven by high performing players would know their history. Not so long ago I remember players playing out of fear of being the first to lose. This lot appear to be free to "express their skills" as they "walk forward and embrace the challenge" and unencumbered by fear have managed to lose to Argentina, Ireland in Ireland and now Ireland in New Zealand on their way to our lowest historic ranking!
What's next on this rocket ship to mediocrity?
It did seem that the dubious (and factually incorrect) media campaign about Ireland never winning in New Zealand may have confused the general public, and some diehard fans.
Anyone remotely interested would understand the reference is to Ireland beating the All Blacks.
But, I expect that anyone valuing the culture and history of NZ rugby, including the AB coaches, would have known that Ireland won several matches on their tour in 1976 (including against a Manawatu team with 11 All Blacks and a strong North Auckland team lead by Sid Going.) Maybe Ardie was a bit coy, not wanting to embarrass the media and sponsors on that one. They should have left it as "never beaten the All Blacks in NZ" and not made fools of themselves around the first Maori match.
Good on ya Ardie. Having been to an Origin match live, I get the reference.
Yeah, in messaging to the New Zealand rugby public, he references SoO as if that would explain it to them.
@antipodean yeah I've been to an origin live and I think it's a shithouse reference. Must have been to the wrong live origin.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
you know what is fucking me off?
look, i know PR is a thing, and you need to plant your own message
but seriously, the relentless optimism and excuse making is pretty fucking rough to take. Just once, admit we were a bit shit and we have some stuff to work on? Shit even Craig Bellamy will tell you when things aren't going well, and they win like 80% of the games they play.
Last year it was a tough end to a long year.
This year, when surely Ireland have that excuse, it's cards and unforeseen circumstances.We're not improving mate. Saturday looked a lot like Dublin in November. A smashed pack rendering our backline useless. Our ball slow, their ball not, creaky set piece.
South Africa (loss)
USA (win)
Wales (win)
Italy (win)
Ireland (loss)
France (loss)
Ireland (win
Ireland (loss)that's fucking dogshit. Admit it is FFS.
But we beat USA!
By next year it could be much closer
Be thankful that we keep dodging Japan too. They’re on the up.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
you know what is fucking me off?
look, i know PR is a thing, and you need to plant your own message
but seriously, the relentless optimism and excuse making is pretty fucking rough to take. Just once, admit we were a bit shit and we have some stuff to work on? Shit even Craig Bellamy will tell you when things aren't going well, and they win like 80% of the games they play.
Last year it was a tough end to a long year.
This year, when surely Ireland have that excuse, it's cards and unforeseen circumstances.We're not improving mate. Saturday looked a lot like Dublin in November. A smashed pack rendering our backline useless. Our ball slow, their ball not, creaky set piece.
South Africa (loss)
USA (win)
Wales (win)
Italy (win)
Ireland (loss)
France (loss)
Ireland (win
Ireland (loss)that's fucking dogshit. Admit it is FFS.
But we beat USA!
By next year it could be much closerBe thankful that we keep dodging Japan too. They’re on the up.
This is Scotland's year. Remember they almost beat us in 2017.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
jesus thats bad
seriously though, is there a chance he's played in all the losses? cant be bothered going back and looking at the squads, if so i wonder about how many head knocks hes had if he cant remember being part of the FIRST loss to ireland and therefore they cant have won in NZ before
sometime i feel a lot of these players wouldn;t even watch rugby if they weren't getting payed to play
ok, i couldn't help myself, went back, Ardie has played in all 4 losses to Ireland (bench for the soldier field game), the fact he is so unaware is shocking
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
jesus thats bad
seriously though, is there a chance he's played in all the losses? cant be bothered going back and looking at the squads, if so i wonder about how many head knocks hes had if he cant remember being part of the FIRST loss to ireland and therefore they cant have won in NZ before
sometime i feel a lot of these players wouldn;t even watch rugby if they weren't getting payed to play
ok, i couldn't help myself, went back, Ardie has played in all 4 losses to Ireland (bench for the soldier field game), the fact he is so unaware is shocking
Probably no YouTube highlights of him from those games to watch back
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@junior I would argue Sam Whitelock has had a bit to do with the success we’ve had during those winning times.
Possibly another reason why things turned to custard with him absent on the weekend.
That didn't seem to help in Dublin and Paris last year when Whitelock was the captain. It's more about the lack of nous and game awareness from team than just the captain.
Yeah this whole situation is not about one person or one thing. It’s a culmination of several issues.
Whitelock’s presence no doubt makes a difference to our chances of winning in terms of his on field play and experience - 133 tests and only 16 losses. All of our great captains saw losses. It’s all part of the learning process for them.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@junior I would argue Sam Whitelock has had a bit to do with the success we’ve had during those winning times.
Possibly another reason why things turned to custard with him absent on the weekend.
That didn't seem to help in Dublin and Paris last year when Whitelock was the captain. It's more about the lack of nous and game awareness from team than just the captain.
Yeah this whole situation is not about one person or one thing. It’s a culmination of several issues.
Whitelock’s presence no doubt makes a difference to our chances of winning in terms of his on field play and experience - 133 tests and only 16 losses. All of our great captains saw losses. It’s all part of the learning process for them.
To be honest, I don't think either Cane or Whitelock have been great AB captains, but I don't blame them for that. When you look at all the extra lifting both those guys have to do on the pitch, they simply can't take the "broader view" of any match in the way we would like. A lot has to rest on the "drivers" of the team here and they have sadly not done well enough.
