Foster, Robertson etc
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@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@BerniesCorner said in Foster must go:
Over at Stuff
"Mark Reason: The fishheads who are stinking out the All Blacks"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300640271/mark-reason-the-fishheads-who-are-stinking-out-the-all-blacksAnyone else find this type of journalism totally unacceptable
Agree with every single thing he says.
Why do you think it’s unacceptable?
People on massive salaries get paid it because they have to accept colossal criticism when they fail to meet their kpi’s.
People who think this is unacceptable have been listening to too much Cindy.
Replace fish heads with “f***”, “girls blouses”, “n*****” etc - would that be published. He can argue his points about needing a change of coach and captain without resorting to this.
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@Billy-Tell unacceptable language mate, regardless of context. Have edited which breaks the mod rule of not editing arguments you are in.
Just being open.
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell unacceptable language mate, regardless of context. Have edited which breaks the mod rule of not editing arguments you are in.
Just being open.
Grand. Not a bother.
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@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@BerniesCorner said in Foster must go:
Over at Stuff
"Mark Reason: The fishheads who are stinking out the All Blacks"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300640271/mark-reason-the-fishheads-who-are-stinking-out-the-all-blacksAnyone else find this type of journalism totally unacceptable
Agree with every single thing he says.
Why do you think it’s unacceptable?
People on massive salaries get paid it because they have to accept colossal criticism when they fail to meet their kpi’s.
People who think this is unacceptable have been listening to too much Cindy.
Replace fish heads with “f***”, “girls blouses”, “n*****” etc - would that be published. He can argue his points about needing a change of coach and captain without resorting to this.
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@Dan54 said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
I find that media statement ridiculous. I don’t think anyone is out to shred foster the man to shreds. But claiming mental health is BS. That would be yet another reason to stand down and seek help (councillor, psychotherapist etc).
You obviously weren't watching presser after the game, there was almost no questions on tactics etc (as you said would be good questions to ask) but just became about Foster etc, .
TBh I never watch pC as nz journalists are hopeless at asking interesting Qs.
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@Dan54 said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
I find that media statement ridiculous. I don’t think anyone is out to shred foster the man to shreds. But claiming mental health is BS. That would be yet another reason to stand down and seek help (councillor, psychotherapist etc).
You obviously weren't watching presser after the game, there was almost no questions on tactics etc (as you said would be good questions to ask) but just became about Foster etc, .
TBh I never watch pC as nz journalists are hopeless at asking interesting Qs.
Yep mate. I think if you had of you would perhaps see what media woman was talking about. And you right often we getting so called journalists going to these things to just be as edgy as they can without asking decent questions, it's not something we just got in NZ, I watch a reasonable amount of them from around the place waiting for some really well asked questions and answers, but they tend to be about a lot, but the actual game just played!
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@Tim said in Foster must go:
I reckon Schmidt (or someone ) will be appointed DOR, similar to job Scott Johnson did for Wallabies. More or less as a sounding board etc for how things will go.
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@Billy-Tell I don’t have a problem with use of fish heads but if you do, then no issues.
Language aside … what do you disagree with in his column?
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell I don’t have a problem with use of fish heads but if you do, then no issues.
Language aside … what do you disagree with in his column?
The way it’s written rather than the conclusions.
“One is a magician, the other shares a nickname with a muppet.”
Is this journalism?? Or tabloid stuff.
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@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell I don’t have a problem with use of fish heads but if you do, then no issues.
Language aside … what do you disagree with in his column?
The way it’s written rather than the conclusions.
“One is a magician, the other shares a nickname with a muppet.”
Is this journalism?? Or tabloid stuff.
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell I don’t have a problem with use of fish heads but if you do, then no issues.
Language aside … what do you disagree with in his column?
The way it’s written rather than the conclusions.
“One is a magician, the other shares a nickname with a muppet.”
Is this journalism?? Or tabloid stuff.
He’s making his point by drawing a parallel.
Ultimately what he saying is Foster was never the right man for the job and should never have been appointed.
No disagreement from me.
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@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell I don’t have a problem with use of fish heads but if you do, then no issues.
Language aside … what do you disagree with in his column?
The way it’s written rather than the conclusions.
“One is a magician, the other shares a nickname with a muppet.”
Is this journalism?? Or tabloid stuff.
He’s making his point by drawing a parallel.
Ultimately what he saying is Foster was never the right man for the job and should never have been appointed.
No disagreement from me.
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell I don’t have a problem with use of fish heads but if you do, then no issues.
Language aside … what do you disagree with in his column?
The way it’s written rather than the conclusions.
“One is a magician, the other shares a nickname with a muppet.”
Is this journalism?? Or tabloid stuff.
He’s making his point by drawing a parallel.
Ultimately what he saying is Foster was never the right man for the job and should never have been appointed.
No disagreement from me.
Why doesn’t he just say that then? But we have foster is a fish head and a muppet (if you don’t think he’s calling foster a muppet then it’s a lost cause). And what’s with the Maori & pasifika flourishing crap?
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It's not the message. The majority of people want change including me.
It's the cheap shot headlines. These people have contributed to the ABs for many years. -
If that article @Tim posted is on the money, Foster will continue after 20 years of professional coaching averageness. Arguably, no substantive consequences for him.
As a digression: under that model, Foster will still keep his job and apparently significant salary, propped up by a former Steamers coach and Tauranga Boys College Deputy Principal to save the day. And Sam Cane - a good Bay of Plenty lad, long time All Blacks servant, and Captain - will be the one thrown under the bus instead. So... @mariner4life ... if you don't feel some blue and yellow tinged outrage brewing by now...
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@Dan54 said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
I don’t think anyone is out to shred foster the man to shreds
You obviously haven't been reading the Fern or social media....
I think they erred on the side of caution and actually did the right thing, even though it looks a bit OTT. Though Foster seemed OK with the idea of a presser, though we don't know about Cane. NZR were putting their employees first when they were under pressure and that's no bad thing.
(Cue umpteen posts arguing Foster isn't an employee, but is a contractor...)
I disagree. The could have given journalists a code of contact with an emphasis that no personal attacks would be tolerated. But there are hard Qs to be asked...Ian, in the first test the ABs tried out wide passes from Aaron Smith. In the 2nd test, Ireland adjusted and this tactic was utterly nullified. Why didn't you adjust again for the 3rd test? Or, the ABs put up a lot of non-contestable midfield bombs in good attacking positions, which gave away hard-earned possession for no gain. Could you explain the reasoning behind this approach?
Is this type of Q "being mean" or "character assassination"??
Nah. You don't take the risk if you are concerned about your people. You err on the side of caution. It's a game of rugby FFS, not a life-changing event.
We’re obviously not going to agree but if the guy can’t handle a press conference he’s not going to handle a RWC.
It's got bugger all to do with Foster handling a presser or not.. It's about an NZR employee making a call on employee welfare which you disagree with. I'd suggest they were in a better position to make that call than you or I were.
It’s a red warning for me when you need media minders. There’s a thin line between that and propaganda control, censors etc. You’re getting into FIFA, Russia, China territory.
Hate to tell you yhis Billy, but every sports ream in world have them, there has been a media manager with ABs, Wallabies, Irish, Boks , Olympic teams etc etc forever and a day!
I’m fully aware. But they don’t usually cancel PC. I don’t see why a code of conduct etc wouldn’t suffice.
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@Dan54 said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
I don’t think anyone is out to shred foster the man to shreds
You obviously haven't been reading the Fern or social media....
I think they erred on the side of caution and actually did the right thing, even though it looks a bit OTT. Though Foster seemed OK with the idea of a presser, though we don't know about Cane. NZR were putting their employees first when they were under pressure and that's no bad thing.
(Cue umpteen posts arguing Foster isn't an employee, but is a contractor...)
I disagree. The could have given journalists a code of contact with an emphasis that no personal attacks would be tolerated. But there are hard Qs to be asked...Ian, in the first test the ABs tried out wide passes from Aaron Smith. In the 2nd test, Ireland adjusted and this tactic was utterly nullified. Why didn't you adjust again for the 3rd test? Or, the ABs put up a lot of non-contestable midfield bombs in good attacking positions, which gave away hard-earned possession for no gain. Could you explain the reasoning behind this approach?
Is this type of Q "being mean" or "character assassination"??
Nah. You don't take the risk if you are concerned about your people. You err on the side of caution. It's a game of rugby FFS, not a life-changing event.
We’re obviously not going to agree but if the guy can’t handle a press conference he’s not going to handle a RWC.
It's got bugger all to do with Foster handling a presser or not.. It's about an NZR employee making a call on employee welfare which you disagree with. I'd suggest they were in a better position to make that call than you or I were.
It’s a red warning for me when you need media minders. There’s a thin line between that and propaganda control, censors etc. You’re getting into FIFA, Russia, China territory.
Hate to tell you yhis Billy, but every sports ream in world have them, there has been a media manager with ABs, Wallabies, Irish, Boks , Olympic teams etc etc forever and a day!
I’m fully aware. But they don’t usually cancel PC. I don’t see why a code of conduct etc wouldn’t suffice.
Actually mate that's what they do, set up PCs as such, but you right I not sure how many they cancel, but to be honest have never taken notice. I pretty sure it's not first time though.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Bones said in Foster must go:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@BerniesCorner said in Foster must go:
Over at Stuff
"Mark Reason: The fishheads who are stinking out the All Blacks"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300640271/mark-reason-the-fishheads-who-are-stinking-out-the-all-blacksAnyone else find this type of journalism totally unacceptable
Worse than anything you get in the UK - and that's saying something.
Why?
The dog-whistle implication that the coaching staff are racist for a start.
Comes across as a bloke who was denied the chance of a rant at the expected presser.
That’s bullshit. At no point has Reason implied he’s racist. No point.
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
That’s bullshit. At no point has Reason implied he’s racist. No point.
Really? (note my dog-whistle comment)
I do not see Māori and Pasifika flourishing under the current regime, as they have flourished in the past few seasons under Robertson, McDonald and McMillan at their Super Rugby clubs. Just the opposite, in fact, with the noble exception of Ardie Savea. -
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell I don’t have a problem with use of fish heads but if you do, then no issues.
Language aside … what do you disagree with in his column?
The way it’s written rather than the conclusions.
“One is a magician, the other shares a nickname with a muppet.”
Is this journalism?? Or tabloid stuff.
He’s making his point by drawing a parallel.
Ultimately what he saying is Foster was never the right man for the job and should never have been appointed.
No disagreement from me.
Why doesn’t he just say that then? But we have foster is a fish head and a muppet (if you don’t think he’s calling foster a muppet then it’s a lost cause). And what’s with the Maori & pasifika flourishing crap?
@Billy-Tell it’s an opinion piece - he can write it as he wishes. Not the words I’d choose but hey ho.
I think the Maori / Pasifika thing is based on a well trodden line that they need to be coached differently … and Foster simply hasn’t got the goods for this.
Just a guess there. I completely disagree with Meldrew here, that it’s racism tho.
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@BerniesCorner said in Foster must go:
Over at Stuff
"Mark Reason: The fishheads who are stinking out the All Blacks"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300640271/mark-reason-the-fishheads-who-are-stinking-out-the-all-blacksAnyone else find this type of journalism totally unacceptable
Agree with every single thing he says.
Why do you think it’s unacceptable?
People on massive salaries get paid it because they have to accept colossal criticism when they fail to meet their kpi’s.
People who think this is unacceptable have been listening to too much Cindy.
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@BerniesCorner said in Foster must go:
Over at Stuff
"Mark Reason: The fishheads who are stinking out the All Blacks"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300640271/mark-reason-the-fishheads-who-are-stinking-out-the-all-blacksAnyone else find this type of journalism totally unacceptable
Agree with every single thing he says.
Why do you think it’s unacceptable?
People on massive salaries get paid it because they have to accept colossal criticism when they fail to meet their kpi’s.
People who think this is unacceptable have been listening to too much Cindy.
Reason is literally saying everything that’s been said on here for ages. The ‘pasifika’ comment is a bit weird but the rest is pretty spot on.
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@Billy-Tell it’s an opinion piece - he can write it as he wishes. Not the words I’d choose but hey ho.
I think the Maori / Pasifika thing is based on a well trodden line that they need to be coached differently … and Foster simply hasn’t got the goods for this.
Just a guess there. I completely disagree with Meldrew here, that it’s racism tho.
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
Just a guess there. I completely disagree with Meldrew here, that it’s racism tho.
Credit to you for thinking the best of people, but it stuck out like a sore thumb for me.
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@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@BerniesCorner said in Foster must go:
Over at Stuff
"Mark Reason: The fishheads who are stinking out the All Blacks"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300640271/mark-reason-the-fishheads-who-are-stinking-out-the-all-blacksAnyone else find this type of journalism totally unacceptable
Agree with every single thing he says.
Why do you think it’s unacceptable?
People on massive salaries get paid it because they have to accept colossal criticism when they fail to meet their kpi’s.
People who think this is unacceptable have been listening to too much Cindy.
Reason is literally saying everything that’s been said on here for ages. The ‘pasifika’ comment is a bit weird but the rest is pretty spot on.
@MN5 said in Foster must go:
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@BerniesCorner said in Foster must go:
Over at Stuff
"Mark Reason: The fishheads who are stinking out the All Blacks"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300640271/mark-reason-the-fishheads-who-are-stinking-out-the-all-blacksAnyone else find this type of journalism totally unacceptable
Agree with every single thing he says.
Why do you think it’s unacceptable?
People on massive salaries get paid it because they have to accept colossal criticism when they fail to meet their kpi’s.
People who think this is unacceptable have been listening to too much Cindy.
Reason is literally saying everything that’s been said on here for ages. The ‘pasifika’ comment is a bit weird but the rest is pretty spot on.
He’s not literally saying it because it’s a written article
(Grammar Nazi alert)
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@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@BerniesCorner said in Foster must go:
Over at Stuff
"Mark Reason: The fishheads who are stinking out the All Blacks"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300640271/mark-reason-the-fishheads-who-are-stinking-out-the-all-blacksAnyone else find this type of journalism totally unacceptable
Agree with every single thing he says.
Why do you think it’s unacceptable?
People on massive salaries get paid it because they have to accept colossal criticism when they fail to meet their kpi’s.
People who think this is unacceptable have been listening to too much Cindy.
Reason is literally saying everything that’s been said on here for ages. The ‘pasifika’ comment is a bit weird but the rest is pretty spot on.
@MN5 said in Foster must go:
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@BerniesCorner said in Foster must go:
Over at Stuff
"Mark Reason: The fishheads who are stinking out the All Blacks"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300640271/mark-reason-the-fishheads-who-are-stinking-out-the-all-blacksAnyone else find this type of journalism totally unacceptable
Agree with every single thing he says.
Why do you think it’s unacceptable?
People on massive salaries get paid it because they have to accept colossal criticism when they fail to meet their kpi’s.
People who think this is unacceptable have been listening to too much Cindy.
Reason is literally saying everything that’s been said on here for ages. The ‘pasifika’ comment is a bit weird but the rest is pretty spot on.
Yep probably hit it on head, Reason is saying what he has read on internet, it's how people without real skills sell stories, find unhappy posts etc and feed the people more of that. I just saw some of that during covid etc, if a journalist wanted to get read they followed what was on net and followed that, it's how some try to stand out in a competitive market. Generally we as readers will see an ex AB say Foster has to go, and if we agree, we think that the man is a genius, if we don't he's an idiot and what does he know. Same in press , a writer who doesn't agree with us is an idiot or NZR stooge etc, and one we agree with is a great writer. It sems to of become even more prevalant since internet became a thing.
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(Fwiw stuff have already replied explaining why they considered article acceptable for publication - fair play to them for getting back to me, and rapidly)
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@MN5 said in Foster must go:
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@BerniesCorner said in Foster must go:
Over at Stuff
"Mark Reason: The fishheads who are stinking out the All Blacks"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300640271/mark-reason-the-fishheads-who-are-stinking-out-the-all-blacksAnyone else find this type of journalism totally unacceptable
Agree with every single thing he says.
Why do you think it’s unacceptable?
People on massive salaries get paid it because they have to accept colossal criticism when they fail to meet their kpi’s.
People who think this is unacceptable have been listening to too much Cindy.
Reason is literally saying everything that’s been said on here for ages. The ‘pasifika’ comment is a bit weird but the rest is pretty spot on.
Yep probably hit it on head, Reason is saying what he has read on internet, it's how people without real skills sell stories, find unhappy posts etc and feed the people more of that. I just saw some of that during covid etc, if a journalist wanted to get read they followed what was on net and followed that, it's how some try to stand out in a competitive market. Generally we as readers will see an ex AB say Foster has to go, and if we agree, we think that the man is a genius, if we don't he's an idiot and what does he know. Same in press , a writer who doesn't agree with us is an idiot or NZR stooge etc, and one we agree with is a great writer. It sems to of become even more prevalant since internet became a thing.
@Dan54 said in Foster must go:
@MN5 said in Foster must go:
@MajorRage said in Foster must go:
@BerniesCorner said in Foster must go:
Over at Stuff
"Mark Reason: The fishheads who are stinking out the All Blacks"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300640271/mark-reason-the-fishheads-who-are-stinking-out-the-all-blacksAnyone else find this type of journalism totally unacceptable
Agree with every single thing he says.
Why do you think it’s unacceptable?
People on massive salaries get paid it because they have to accept colossal criticism when they fail to meet their kpi’s.
People who think this is unacceptable have been listening to too much Cindy.
Reason is literally saying everything that’s been said on here for ages. The ‘pasifika’ comment is a bit weird but the rest is pretty spot on.
Yep probably hit it on head, Reason is saying what he has read on internet, it's how people without real skills sell stories, find unhappy posts etc and feed the people more of that. I just saw some of that during covid etc, if a journalist wanted to get read they followed what was on net and followed that, it's how some try to stand out in a competitive market. Generally we as readers will see an ex AB say Foster has to go, and if we agree, we think that the man is a genius, if we don't he's an idiot and what does he know. Same in press , a writer who doesn't agree with us is an idiot or NZR stooge etc, and one we agree with is a great writer. It sems to of become even more prevalant since internet became a thing.
Yep, I’m certainly not going so far as to say it was an entertaining well written piece…..but he did at least tell it like it is. I don’t think he deserves to be censored for that
