Foster, Robertson etc

[antipodean]

@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:

@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:

@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:

@antipodean first loss to Ireland was 2016 so think the rot had already started

That wasn't a defence issue. That was an arrogance issue.

Why?

A lock pairing of Kaino and Tuipulotu doesn't suggest to me they were taking it seriously. Neither did the amount of social media work in the lead up. Very different a fortnight later.

[Stargazer]

@antipodean You seem to have forgotten why Kaino was paired with Tuipulotu. It had absolutely nothing to do with taking it lightly. Sam Whitelock was out with a high ankle sprain, Brodie Retallick with concussion and Luke Romano had gone home because of a family bereavement. The only remaining lock was Scott Barrett, who was named on the bench for his test debut.

I agree that the lead-up to the test seemed a bit casual, but that's more an impression from social media posts, than actually knowing what went on.

[antipodean]

@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:

@antipodean You seem to have forgotten why Kaino was paired with Tuipulotu. It had absolutely nothing to do with taking it lightly. Sam Whitelock was out with a high ankle sprain, Brodie Retallick with concussion and Luke Romano had gone home because of a family bereavement. The only remaining lock was Scott Barrett, who was named on the bench for his test debut.

I agree that the lead-up to the test seemed a bit casual, but that's more an impression from social media posts, than actually knowing what went on.

[Dan54]

@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:

@Dan54 i'd love to see more variety, close-close-close-wide-wide

attack close to try and draw in some of their defenders...currently we fire it 10m out to a pod...that has 3 tacklers waiting for it because EVERYONE knows that thats what we're going to do

Amen Kiwi, I have said before last test against Irish most of AB warm up I watched, they were going through 3 lots of pods and all 3 halfbacks were passing to player 2 or 3 wide, not once to a close runner.

[taniwharugby]

@Dan54 not to mention the 2 right, then back left too...which is always good running back into the traffic form the last breakdown.

[mikedogz]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/129367597/jason-ryans-path-from-club-footys-front-row-factory-to-all-blacks-forwards-coach?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

[Victor Meldrew]

@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:

Interesting in the same way that cancer is interesting.

If Robertson wanted him, he must have rated him - which makes you wonder if the step up to Test level is a bit too much.

you have to stop wondering if it's just the players who can't make tackles as opposed to the system

There's a system?. To be fair, the D in the 22 is pretty good - but then they've had plenty of on-field opportunities to get that right I guess....

[canefan]

@Victor-Meldrew said in [Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes]

To be fair, the D in the 22 is pretty good - but then they've had plenty of on-field opportunities to get that right I guess....

I'd rather they stop teams before they get to the red zone....

[taniwharugby]

@canefan yep, when on the line in a shallower set up we seem fine, were patches of excellent goal line defence, however, it was the ease with which they got there in the first place is of concern.

[Rapido]

@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:

@Victor-Meldrew said in [Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes]

To be fair, the D in the 22 is pretty good - but then they've had plenty of on-field opportunities to get that right I guess....

I'd rather they stop teams before they get to the red zone....

And also actually try to win the ball back occasionally, so it occasionally doesn't reach the red yellowcard zone.

[canefan]

@Rapido said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:

@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:

@Victor-Meldrew said in [Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes]

To be fair, the D in the 22 is pretty good - but then they've had plenty of on-field opportunities to get that right I guess....

I'd rather they stop teams before they get to the red zone....

And also actually try to win the ball back occasionally, so it occasionally doesn't reach the red yellowcard zone.

Turnovers? Now there's an idea

[Bones]

@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:

@antipodean first loss to Ireland was 2016 so think the rot had already started

Fucking hell, almost 8 years ago! It still feels like only a couple. That wound just won't heal...

[ARHS]

@Bones geez doesn't feel more than 6 to me

[Bones]

@ARHS said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:

@Bones geez doesn't feel more than 6 to me

What's a math

[stodders]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/new-zealand-captain-sam-cane-isn-t-even-good-enough-to-get-in-the-italy-side-let-alone-lead-the-all-blacks-to-a-world-cup-f9ck9tvbd

Barnes is one of the few NH scribes who doesn't hide his love for NZ rugby and the ABs. Even he is getting in on the bandwagon...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/new-zealand-captain-sam-cane-isn-t-even-good-enough-to-get-in-the-italy-side-let-alone-lead-the-all-blacks-to-a-world-cup-f9ck9tvbd

[antipodean]

@stodders Barnes has a distinguished career in making laughably idiotic pronouncements.

[Stargazer]

@stodders pay-walled

[gt12]

I hope Barnes is lighting a fire in the players. We need Cane to either find form or be dropped.

These aren’t all of the changes I wanted, but with Ryan there I think we have the forwards coach we should have.

With Schmidt there, we have the analyst we should have.

I’d still prefer Brown there for attack, but I’m prepared to see what they can do until we get a new person.

Our skills coach sucks - Strawbridge should be the second to next to get fired (McLeod should be first, but the players sound happy).

I’m excited to see whether we improve - or don’t - in which case I’ll be calling for more heads.

[Victor Meldrew]

@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:

@stodders pay-walled

New Zealand captain Sam Cane isn’t even good enough to get in the Italy side, let alone lead the All Blacks to a World Cup
new
Stuart Barnes
Saturday July 23 2022, 6.00pm BST, The Sunday Times
The odds against New Zealand regaining the World Cup are growing. Ireland’s first series win on Kiwi soil was an opportunity for this legendary rugby land to reboot their chances — an opportunity to freshen up their leadership both on and off the field. They did neither. Ian Foster remains in charge off the field, Sam Cane on it.
Cane’s captaincy is an continuing debate down under. Foster’s comments on the subject were a convincing case for removing the New Zealand manager.
“The easiest thing to do when a series doesn’t go your way is to point the finger,” he said. Foster’s problem is quite the opposite. Even as the hosts were winning the first Test
42-19, there were clear indications the team and back row would be better balanced with Ardie Savea at open-side and Cane left out of the squad.
Cane was dominated by Van der Flier in the home series defeat by Ireland
Cane was dominated by Van der Flier in the home series defeat by Ireland
GETTY IMAGES
Josh van der Flier had eclipsed the open-side. Here was the moment, with a 1-0 lead, for Foster to make the hard choice and drop his fellow Waikato man. Management is about making hard choices as much as avoiding the easy ones.
New Zealand fans, according to their manager, “have a promise that we are looking forward to getting stuck into our work”. As if they have been guilty of indolence. It’s one of the best definitions of madness. Something fails repeatedly so you work harder at doing the same thing. The blinkers are well and truly on.
Roll back the years to 2015 and the World Cup in England. Chris Robshaw was captain without being anything like good enough to retain his place in the team on ability — or decision-making as Stuart Lancaster would find out at the pool stage.
Lancaster had closed his mind, and England, with their captain struggling against the likes of Michael Hooper, David Pocock and Sam Warburton, crashed out. Steffon Armitage was dominating club rugby at Toulon. He was one of the best jackals in the world and only the best survive at elite level. But Lancaster didn’t utilise the “exceptional circumstances” clause for France-based players and recall the one bloke who could have galvanised the back row.
What did Eddie Jones call the Harlequins skipper? A “six and a half”. Stripped of the captaincy by Jones after the World Cup and turned into a blind-side, he played some heroic stuff in the early Eddie era.
Foster’s blind faith in Cane is reminiscent of Lancaster’s decision to stick with Robshaw in the 2015 World Cup
Foster’s blind faith in Cane is reminiscent of Lancaster’s decision to stick with Robshaw in the 2015 World Cup
GETTY IMAGES
Australia, with two of the best open-sides in tandem — made the final but New Zealand prevailed with just the one seven. They wouldn’t have swapped Richie McCaw for the pair of outstanding Australians. The men in black have won three World Cups; Michael Jones was regal in 1987 and McCaw central in the successive 2011 and 2015 triumphs.
If ten has a history of being the magical number in Welsh rugby, New Zealand have their equivalent seven. Aardie Savea is among the contenders for being the best open-side on earth but Foster plays him at No 8. It keeps Cane in place.
Cane is a captain whose position in the global pecking order of international open-sides is a long way from the lofty dominance of Jones and McCaw. Even Foster, I presume, would accept that his skipper was played off the park by Van der Flier.
When Ireland were roaring away on the front foot, he couldn’t slow them down with either the weight of tackle or cunning at the breakdown. When New Zealand claimed the front foot, he was anonymous compared with skilful ball-carriers and offloaders like Savea. Yet he has been appointed captain for the forthcoming Rugby Championship between his country, South Africa, Australia and Argentina.
New Zealand’s traditional rivals are both led by their open-sides. Seven is a significant position. Hooper has been one of the outstanding open-sides for many years. He leads by the example he sets and by what he achieves. Foster has “got a lot of faith in Sam”. Judged by the recent tour, it is faith of a religious disposition. There’s little in the way of evidence. Here is New Zealand’s very own “six and a half”.
The South African world champions have a lot of faith in the leadership powers — not to mention raw power — of their open-side skipper, Siya Kolisi. The Springboks wouldn’t think of swapping their captain for anyone, let alone New Zealand’s skipper.
Tommy Reffell arrived on the Test stage in South Africa with some superb performances for Wales. His capacity to stop the Springboks in their tracks is critical in the task of depriving these giant forwards of their much needed momentum. Would Wales swap their seven for Cane? Gregor Townsend made Hamish Watson Scotland’s captain in the absence of Stuart Hogg and the open-side was one of the outstanding players in the series. Thanks, Sam, but you’re not for Scotland either.
England suffered from open-side injuries but Tom Curry and Sam Underhill are ahead of Cane, while Lewis Ludlam is progressing so quickly New Zealand’s skipper would struggle to make the England squad. Where is the aura that went with the gnarled majesty of McCaw?
France have a big, powerful seven in the imposing shape of Toulouse’s Anthony Jelonch. A lineout option and fearsomely strong in the way French packs are and New Zealand’s are not. And while we are on mainland Europe, let’s be brutally honest. His fellow New Zealander, Kieran Crowley, now in charge of Italy, wouldn’t swap his inspiring Michale Lamero for the brave, battered but decidedly second-hand looking Cane. Good enough for New Zealand, not for Italy.

[Stargazer]

@Victor-Meldrew Thanks!