Foster, Robertson etc
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@mariner4life said in Foster:
@Donsteppa said in Foster:
I wonder what Gatland might be quietly doing ...
Please don't.
There's one coach with a worse record at the Chiefs than Fosterand that's our mate Wazza.Gats at the Chiefs may not have been a success, but I'd take him in a heartbeat over Foster. He knows how to win games at the top level, and gets teams up. You dno't get picked as a multi-Lions coach for nothing.
Given both his approach to the Chiefs role and his results, I'd like to see more of him back in the NZ environment first. Not a stance I'd normally take, but his Chiefs tenure left questions. While I'd also have Gatland as coach instead of Foster, thankfully it isn't a two-choice decision
i think maybe we just need to never hire a chiefs coach for the ABs ever again.
No Rennie (or Wayne Smith)??
Rennie coaches the Wallabies he is dead to me
Wayne Smith was a shit head coach. He's a Robin not a batman
@mariner4life did he really have a chance? He is the best thing that coached anything Waikato.
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@MiketheSnow said in Foster:
I wonder what Gatland might be quietly doing ...
Please don't.
There's one coach with a worse record at the Chiefs than Fosterand that's our mate Wazza.He does know how to get limited teams to RWC SFs though
Sorry @MiketheSnowNone taken
With all the talk of Robertson surely Gatland and Schmidt should be the next cabs off the rank?
Especially going in to a WC
Have you noticed how poorly the Chiefs have played under Gatland?
He seems to have had trouble adapting back into NZ rugby. -
@Crucial if the July tests were against Scotland, instead of a first series loss to Ireland, we'd have had another first, first ever loss to the Haggis munchers!
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@BartMan we have them on the EOYT, so somehow, Fozzie or someone else needs to arrest this slide...
@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@BartMan we have them on the EOYT, so somehow, Fozzie or someone else needs to arrest this slide...
Slides are journeys. Roundabouts are learnings.
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@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@BartMan we have them on the EOYT, so somehow, Fozzie or someone else needs to arrest this slide...
Slides are journeys. Roundabouts are learnings.
From surfer to super coach: Scott Robertson's rise to rugby stardom
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300660277/from-surfer-to-super-coach-scott-robertsons-rise-to-rugby-stardomIt is a bit early to trod on someone's well-padded bones isn't it?
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While this analogy is useful, you have to also consider other possibilities.
What if our troops are OK, but the general put in charge has been placed there because he has good connections, and his generalship is the actual problem?
The Romans didn't get wiped out at Carrhae because they had poor culture. Instead they had an idiot at the helm (Crassus) and inappropriate methods.
Another general, some different tactics and the Romans were good to go.
This post is deleted! -
While this analogy is useful, you have to also consider other possibilities.
What if our troops are OK, but the general put in charge has been placed there because he has good connections, and his generalship is the actual problem?
The Romans didn't get wiped out at Carrhae because they had poor culture. Instead they had an idiot at the helm (Crassus) and inappropriate methods.
Another general, some different tactics and the Romans were good to go.
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
While this analogy is useful, you have to also consider other possibilities.
What if our troops are OK, but the general put in charge has been placed there because he has good connections, and his generalship is the actual problem?
The Romans didn't get wiped out at Carrhae because they had poor culture. Instead they had an idiot at the helm (Crassus) and inappropriate methods.
Another general, some different tactics and the Romans were good to go.
I think that is a bit simplistic. You have to ask, if it was all down to one general (Philip), why the French didn't regain their military supremacy when he departed the scene.
Google tells me Carrhea precipitated a civil war in Rome (a big cultural upheaval) and it took them 16-ish years to eventually win a major battle against the Parthians so a few more changes other than tactics and leaders.
Same with Foster. There's a risk thinking he is the root cause of the problems when what needs to be fixed is maybe much deeper
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew I'm pretty sure gets this.
Sure do. Haven't done this sort of stuff for nearly a decade and didn't want to bore people on a Rugby forum - but thanks to @booboo I now will...
One of the biggest red flags in business for me was hearing: "We changed the manager/director as things were getting bad, the new bloke got off to a good start, but now seems to have lost momentum". Big indicator it was culture not process.
There's a number of ways to survey & measure culture and It'd be fascinating to see what the AB culture looked like in 2015, 2019 and now. My wild guess would be a fall off around internal focus, accepting change and developing adaptability. If there's a trend, I wouldn't be surprised if it had it's roots around 2016 with the departure of much of the leadership group
If that's the case, it could take some time to change and will need a lot more than just changing coaching staff to put right. Being an optimist, it's possible the process has already started.
I see parallels deeper than just within the team.
At the moment we're the French repeatedly charging up the hill (sticking with our style) because it's always worked, and Foster is Phillip bereft of ideas and not in control.
We've even taken a few swipes at our allies the Genovese (Aussies) on the way through.
It's our culture which has made us the most powerful force in eastern Europe (rugby) for 400 (120) years that's convinced us we just have to do what we've always done, only harder.
I think we have rebuild the culture right through the sport to rebuild our understanding of how we create the All Blacks.
The All Blacks have always organically been the best in the world because our system has always been the best in the world.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew I'm pretty sure gets this.
Sure do. Haven't done this sort of stuff for nearly a decade and didn't want to bore people on a Rugby forum - but thanks to @booboo I now will...
One of the biggest red flags in business for me was hearing: "We changed the manager/director as things were getting bad, the new bloke got off to a good start, but now seems to have lost momentum". Big indicator it was culture not process.
There's a number of ways to survey & measure culture and It'd be fascinating to see what the AB culture looked like in 2015, 2019 and now. My wild guess would be a fall off around internal focus, accepting change and developing adaptability. If there's a trend, I wouldn't be surprised if it had it's roots around 2016 with the departure of much of the leadership group
If that's the case, it could take some time to change and will need a lot more than just changing coaching staff to put right. Being an optimist, it's possible the process has already started.
I see parallels deeper than just within the team.
At the moment we're the French repeatedly charging up the hill (sticking with our style) because it's always worked, and Foster is Phillip bereft of ideas and not in control.
Yep. I was thinking more of why that was happening behind teh scnenes to let that happen.
We've even taken a few swipes at our allies the Genovese (Aussies) on the way through.
It's our culture which has made us the most powerful force in eastern Europe (rugby) for 400 (120) years that's convinced us we just have to do what we've always done, only harder.
I think we have rebuild the culture right through the sport to rebuild our understanding of how we create the All Blacks.
The All Blacks have always organically been the best in the world because our system has always been the best in the world.
100%. Something seems seriously wrong and a new Head Coach may help identify the issues either by elimination or a fresh set of eyes.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew I'm pretty sure gets this.
Sure do. Haven't done this sort of stuff for nearly a decade and didn't want to bore people on a Rugby forum - but thanks to @booboo I now will...
One of the biggest red flags in business for me was hearing: "We changed the manager/director as things were getting bad, the new bloke got off to a good start, but now seems to have lost momentum". Big indicator it was culture not process.
There's a number of ways to survey & measure culture and It'd be fascinating to see what the AB culture looked like in 2015, 2019 and now. My wild guess would be a fall off around internal focus, accepting change and developing adaptability. If there's a trend, I wouldn't be surprised if it had it's roots around 2016 with the departure of much of the leadership group
If that's the case, it could take some time to change and will need a lot more than just changing coaching staff to put right. Being an optimist, it's possible the process has already started.
I see parallels deeper than just within the team.
At the moment we're the French repeatedly charging up the hill (sticking with our style) because it's always worked, and Foster is Phillip bereft of ideas and not in control.
Yep. I was thinking more of why that was happening behind teh scnenes to let that happen.
We've even taken a few swipes at our allies the Genovese (Aussies) on the way through.
It's our culture which has made us the most powerful force in eastern Europe (rugby) for 400 (120) years that's convinced us we just have to do what we've always done, only harder.
I think we have rebuild the culture right through the sport to rebuild our understanding of how we create the All Blacks.
The All Blacks have always organically been the best in the world because our system has always been the best in the world.
100%. Something seems seriously wrong and a new Head Coach may help identify the issues either by elimination or a fresh set of eyes.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew I'm pretty sure gets this.
Sure do. Haven't done this sort of stuff for nearly a decade and didn't want to bore people on a Rugby forum - but thanks to @booboo I now will...
One of the biggest red flags in business for me was hearing: "We changed the manager/director as things were getting bad, the new bloke got off to a good start, but now seems to have lost momentum". Big indicator it was culture not process.
There's a number of ways to survey & measure culture and It'd be fascinating to see what the AB culture looked like in 2015, 2019 and now. My wild guess would be a fall off around internal focus, accepting change and developing adaptability. If there's a trend, I wouldn't be surprised if it had it's roots around 2016 with the departure of much of the leadership group
If that's the case, it could take some time to change and will need a lot more than just changing coaching staff to put right. Being an optimist, it's possible the process has already started.
I see parallels deeper than just within the team.
At the moment we're the French repeatedly charging up the hill (sticking with our style) because it's always worked, and Foster is Phillip bereft of ideas and not in control.
Yep. I was thinking more of why that was happening behind teh scnenes to let that happen.
We've even taken a few swipes at our allies the Genovese (Aussies) on the way through.
It's our culture which has made us the most powerful force in eastern Europe (rugby) for 400 (120) years that's convinced us we just have to do what we've always done, only harder.
I think we have rebuild the culture right through the sport to rebuild our understanding of how we create the All Blacks.
The All Blacks have always organically been the best in the world because our system has always been the best in the world.
100%. Something seems seriously wrong and a new Head Coach may help identify the issues either by elimination or a fresh set of eyes.
A head coach from outside the current setup
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew I'm pretty sure gets this.
Sure do. Haven't done this sort of stuff for nearly a decade and didn't want to bore people on a Rugby forum - but thanks to @booboo I now will...
One of the biggest red flags in business for me was hearing: "We changed the manager/director as things were getting bad, the new bloke got off to a good start, but now seems to have lost momentum". Big indicator it was culture not process.
There's a number of ways to survey & measure culture and It'd be fascinating to see what the AB culture looked like in 2015, 2019 and now. My wild guess would be a fall off around internal focus, accepting change and developing adaptability. If there's a trend, I wouldn't be surprised if it had it's roots around 2016 with the departure of much of the leadership group
If that's the case, it could take some time to change and will need a lot more than just changing coaching staff to put right. Being an optimist, it's possible the process has already started.
I see parallels deeper than just within the team.
At the moment we're the French repeatedly charging up the hill (sticking with our style) because it's always worked, and Foster is Phillip bereft of ideas and not in control.
We've even taken a few swipes at our allies the Genovese (Aussies) on the way through.
It's our culture which has made us the most powerful force in eastern Europe (rugby) for 400 (120) years that's convinced us we just have to do what we've always done, only harder.
I think we have rebuild the culture right through the sport to rebuild our understanding of how we create the All Blacks.
The All Blacks have always organically been the best in the world because our system has always been the best in the world.
Another analogy might be the Swiss mercenaries. Absolutely fùcking ruthless and the benchmark for an elite force back in the day. Then firearms and artillery come along and despite them bravely doing everything that made them so great they were simply overwhelmed by the world moving forward. They at least got the hint. How long until we do? I'd hate to think it would take an absolute bloody massacre, but I'm afraid it might.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster:
Then firearms and artillery come along and despite them bravely doing everything that made them so great they were simply overwhelmed by the world moving forward.
Their military culture stopped them innovating perhaps? A parallel with NZ Rugby or just the AB's?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew I'm pretty sure gets this.
Sure do. Haven't done this sort of stuff for nearly a decade and didn't want to bore people on a Rugby forum - but thanks to @booboo I now will...
One of the biggest red flags in business for me was hearing: "We changed the manager/director as things were getting bad, the new bloke got off to a good start, but now seems to have lost momentum". Big indicator it was culture not process.
There's a number of ways to survey & measure culture and It'd be fascinating to see what the AB culture looked like in 2015, 2019 and now. My wild guess would be a fall off around internal focus, accepting change and developing adaptability. If there's a trend, I wouldn't be surprised if it had it's roots around 2016 with the departure of much of the leadership group
If that's the case, it could take some time to change and will need a lot more than just changing coaching staff to put right. Being an optimist, it's possible the process has already started.
I see parallels deeper than just within the team.
At the moment we're the French repeatedly charging up the hill (sticking with our style) because it's always worked, and Foster is Phillip bereft of ideas and not in control.
Yep. I was thinking more of why that was happening behind teh scnenes to let that happen.
We've even taken a few swipes at our allies the Genovese (Aussies) on the way through.
It's our culture which has made us the most powerful force in eastern Europe (rugby) for 400 (120) years that's convinced us we just have to do what we've always done, only harder.
I think we have rebuild the culture right through the sport to rebuild our understanding of how we create the All Blacks.
The All Blacks have always organically been the best in the world because our system has always been the best in the world.
100%. Something seems seriously wrong and a new Head Coach may help identify the issues either by elimination or a fresh set of eyes.
A head coach from outside the current setup
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew I'm pretty sure gets this.
Sure do. Haven't done this sort of stuff for nearly a decade and didn't want to bore people on a Rugby forum - but thanks to @booboo I now will...
One of the biggest red flags in business for me was hearing: "We changed the manager/director as things were getting bad, the new bloke got off to a good start, but now seems to have lost momentum". Big indicator it was culture not process.
There's a number of ways to survey & measure culture and It'd be fascinating to see what the AB culture looked like in 2015, 2019 and now. My wild guess would be a fall off around internal focus, accepting change and developing adaptability. If there's a trend, I wouldn't be surprised if it had it's roots around 2016 with the departure of much of the leadership group
If that's the case, it could take some time to change and will need a lot more than just changing coaching staff to put right. Being an optimist, it's possible the process has already started.
I see parallels deeper than just within the team.
At the moment we're the French repeatedly charging up the hill (sticking with our style) because it's always worked, and Foster is Phillip bereft of ideas and not in control.
Yep. I was thinking more of why that was happening behind teh scnenes to let that happen.
We've even taken a few swipes at our allies the Genovese (Aussies) on the way through.
It's our culture which has made us the most powerful force in eastern Europe (rugby) for 400 (120) years that's convinced us we just have to do what we've always done, only harder.
I think we have rebuild the culture right through the sport to rebuild our understanding of how we create the All Blacks.
The All Blacks have always organically been the best in the world because our system has always been the best in the world.
100%. Something seems seriously wrong and a new Head Coach may help identify the issues either by elimination or a fresh set of eyes.
A head coach from outside the current setup
Or someone from outside rugby. Didn't NZ Cricket do something similar with John Graham?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew I'm pretty sure gets this.
Sure do. Haven't done this sort of stuff for nearly a decade and didn't want to bore people on a Rugby forum - but thanks to @booboo I now will...
One of the biggest red flags in business for me was hearing: "We changed the manager/director as things were getting bad, the new bloke got off to a good start, but now seems to have lost momentum". Big indicator it was culture not process.
There's a number of ways to survey & measure culture and It'd be fascinating to see what the AB culture looked like in 2015, 2019 and now. My wild guess would be a fall off around internal focus, accepting change and developing adaptability. If there's a trend, I wouldn't be surprised if it had it's roots around 2016 with the departure of much of the leadership group
If that's the case, it could take some time to change and will need a lot more than just changing coaching staff to put right. Being an optimist, it's possible the process has already started.
I see parallels deeper than just within the team.
At the moment we're the French repeatedly charging up the hill (sticking with our style) because it's always worked, and Foster is Phillip bereft of ideas and not in control.
Yep. I was thinking more of why that was happening behind teh scnenes to let that happen.
We've even taken a few swipes at our allies the Genovese (Aussies) on the way through.
It's our culture which has made us the most powerful force in eastern Europe (rugby) for 400 (120) years that's convinced us we just have to do what we've always done, only harder.
I think we have rebuild the culture right through the sport to rebuild our understanding of how we create the All Blacks.
The All Blacks have always organically been the best in the world because our system has always been the best in the world.
100%. Something seems seriously wrong and a new Head Coach may help identify the issues either by elimination or a fresh set of eyes.
A head coach from outside the current setup
Or someone from outside rugby. Didn't NZ Cricket do something similar with John Graham?
@Victor-Meldrew I think most people from outside the current set up can see alot of what is wrong, and has been for several years, but have done nothing to try to rectify it.
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@Victor-Meldrew I think most people from outside the current set up can see alot of what is wrong, and has been for several years, but have done nothing to try to rectify it.
@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew I think most people from outside the current set up can see alot of what is wrong,
Are they seeing the symptoms or the root causes? Often what seems an obvious problem cause is actually something way different.
and has been for several years, but have done nothing to try to rectify it.
Reminds of something I read recently: "The best time to plant a tree was ten years ago. The second-best time is now"
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@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew I think most people from outside the current set up can see alot of what is wrong,
Are they seeing the symptoms or the root causes? Often what seems an obvious problem cause is actually something way different.
and has been for several years, but have done nothing to try to rectify it.
Reminds of something I read recently: "The best time to plant a tree was ten years ago. The second-best time is now"
@Victor-Meldrew what we are seeing now is the symptom of years of neglect.
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If Foster is replaced - will the new coach(es) get to make new selections/droppings of the current squad for this tournament? Or are they stuck with what Foster and co. selected?
If Foster is replaced - will the new coach(es) get to make new selections/droppings of the current squad for this tournament? Or are they stuck with what Foster and co. selected?
I imagine that'd be a shit show player contract wise to try and drop existing members and select new players.
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If Foster is replaced - will the new coach(es) get to make new selections/droppings of the current squad for this tournament? Or are they stuck with what Foster and co. selected?
@Frank Zero problem.
The reality is that Foster's got 95% of the best players in NZ in his squad - the problem is to get them playing like world beaters. (E.g. Cullen Grace is a complete red herring, given that he'd have to supplant Hoskins Sotutu to actually get on the field).
Watching a bit of NPC today, seems like we're still predominantly stuck in the midfield bomb set, while much of the rest of the world has progressed ahead with attacking lines.
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@Frank Zero problem.
The reality is that Foster's got 95% of the best players in NZ in his squad - the problem is to get them playing like world beaters. (E.g. Cullen Grace is a complete red herring, given that he'd have to supplant Hoskins Sotutu to actually get on the field).
Watching a bit of NPC today, seems like we're still predominantly stuck in the midfield bomb set, while much of the rest of the world has progressed ahead with attacking lines.
@Chris-B said in Foster:
@Frank Zero problem.
The reality is that Foster's got 95% of the best players in NZ in his squad - the problem is to get them playing like world beaters.
That assumes they are world-beaters simply awaiting a metamorphosis. Not 100% sold on that argument.
Watching a bit of NPC today, seems like we're still predominantly stuck in the midfield bomb set, while much of the rest of the world has progressed ahead with attacking lines.
Interesting comment. Makes you wonder how deep our current midfield problems are. Or is an explanation?
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@Chris-B said in Foster:
@Frank Zero problem.
The reality is that Foster's got 95% of the best players in NZ in his squad - the problem is to get them playing like world beaters.
That assumes they are world-beaters simply awaiting a metamorphosis. Not 100% sold on that argument.
Watching a bit of NPC today, seems like we're still predominantly stuck in the midfield bomb set, while much of the rest of the world has progressed ahead with attacking lines.
Interesting comment. Makes you wonder how deep our current midfield problems are. Or is an explanation?
@Victor-Meldrew For certain, they may not be.
But, under Foster they are clearly a long way short of the mark. I've got zero doubt now that a coaching change has to happen and with a better coach we will do better.
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@Victor-Meldrew For certain, they may not be.
But, under Foster they are clearly a long way short of the mark. I've got zero doubt now that a coaching change has to happen and with a better coach we will do better.
