All Blacks 2022
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2022:
Especially when you consider how ineffectual
Havillimost of the team was against France/SA last year.FIFY
Thanks!
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Interesting article from Gatland.
"I have never seen such low public morale towards the All Blacks – but they needed this wobble
Despite struggling for consistency, New Zealand won the Rugby Championship and can now set their sights on the World Cup"
"It was quite surreal watching the All Blacks lift the Rugby Championship trophy last weekend considering they have been in complete disarray this year.
Their fifth title in six years came after they comfortably dismantled an underpar and ill-disciplined Australian side 40-14 to bring the curtain down on a tumultuous few months.
First, there was the historic home series defeat by Ireland in the summer, before they lost their Rugby Championship opener to South Africa in Nelspruit. It was their fifth defeat in six matches and the first time this century that the All Blacks had lost three Tests in a row.
The slew of unwanted stats meant the bell was tolling for Ian Foster. Rumours were starting to swirl about a change in coaching set-up and there was widespread speculation that Crusaders coach Scott Robertson was going to be parachuted in to save a sinking ship.
But Foster’s men strung an excellent performance together in the second South African Test in Johannesburg, only to hit rock bottom a few weeks later when they were edged out by Argentina 25-18 in Christchurch.
In all the time I have been involved with rugby, I have never seen a head coach under that amount of pressure and scrutiny. In New Zealand, there was complete turmoil.
The vitriol levelled at the coach and squad on social media was completely alien and over the top for a nation that has always been regarded as the heavyweights in world rugby. Never before has public morale in our national team been so low.
I caught up with Felipe Contepomi, the Argentina assistant coach, after the Pumas’ historic win in late August. We went for coffee and he said something that really struck me. It has always been in the All Blacks’ DNA to be six months ahead of everyone else. But now, with their startling lack of consistency this year, it is New Zealand who have found themselves playing catch up.
New Zealand needed this wobble before next year’s World Cup. It shouldn’t necessarily be viewed negatively – in fact it is a huge positive for New Zealand Rugby and healthy for the wider game.
Such is the volatile nature of Test rugby that you can post 20 or 30 points on a team one week and then get hammered by them the next. It is fantastic to see international teams that are capable of beating each other if they get their strategy right on the day.
For me, it is possible to trace the All Blacks’ troubles back to before the pandemic. When I finished with Wales after the 2019 World Cup in Japan and returned to New Zealand Rugby, I sensed a slight reluctance to talk about anything new or look at what teams in the northern hemisphere were doing.
That certainly rang true when the All Blacks lost to France 40-25 last November, in what was a dress rehearsal for the opening game of the 2023 World Cup. Only recently has there been a shift – players have started to be more receptive to the new ideas and philosophies that have infiltrated the camp in the wake of recent coaching reinforcements.
You cannot underestimate the tweaks Foster made in the wake of the series defeat by Ireland, when forwards coach John Plumtree and backs coach Brad Mooar were replaced by Jason Ryan, the Crusaders and Fiji forwards coach, and Joe Schmidt respectively. Jason has been a standard-bearer for New Zealand rugby over a number of years, while Joe, after his six-year coaching stint with Ireland, has brought a wealth of experience from a northern hemisphere perspective.
They have clearly had a positive influence on the squad, although one of the All Blacks’ strengths has always been their ability to change and adapt. They have certainly done that over the past couple of months despite all the criticism that has been hurled their way, to the point where they now look reasonably settled.
But the real acid test will be their showdown against England at Twickenham in November. That will be a very good indication of where both teams are a year out from a World Cup.
I was impressed with the character Eddie Jones’ side showed during their series win in Australia. Billy Vunipola has started to hit some form again and the 10-12 combination of Marcus Smith and Owen Farrell was a considerable success.
Marcus has got something really special about him – he has already proved himself to be the star of England's next generation. I thought Courtney Lawes, too, also handled the whole occasion brilliantly. The great thing about Courtney is that he is his own man and brings a great blend of balance and calmness in his leadership role.
For England and Eddie now, I would like to see some real consistency in his squad selection building into the autumn campaign, and later, the Six Nations. Danny Care, Harry Randall and Joe Marchant have been dropped from the squad that toured Australia and Hugh Tizard received his first call-up in England’s latest training group announced earlier this week.
If I was Eddie, I would want to set out my stall early ahead of the Six Nations. I would want to come out of the autumn series knowing exactly where my team are and – just like the All Blacks – where they are going."
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What are your guys current All Black halfback power rankings?
Curious as to how Weber has dropped so far out of contention.
Not sold on Fakatava
Hotham + Roigard playing well in NPC
- Smith
- Christie
- Weber
- Fakatava / Roigard
- Perenara / Ratima / Roe
117th. TTT
@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks 2022:
What are your guys current All Black halfback power rankings?
Curious as to how Weber has dropped so far out of contention.
Not sold on Fakatava
Hotham + Roigard playing well in NPC
- Smith
- Christie
- Weber
- Fakatava / Roigard
- Perenara / Ratima / Roe
117th. TTT
I'm hoping that Roigard gets in the AB XV programme. Brings something a little different to the 'little nippy guy' Smith/Christie/Weber picture and has more of a 9/10 hybrid about him. Something we haven't had in the play chest since Weepu
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I would like to see a running HB in the ABs for the WC.
Roigard stands out,Ratima is the other one with Hotham for the future .
Those 3 HBs give me hope after Smith as well as adding another strength to our attack.The danger of a running HB is missing it holds the defence around the ruck and mauls.
Fakatava hopefully develops as well but he needs game time. -
After being shocked at Christie being named in the ABs last year he's been good. I've been pleased with what he brings off of the bench.
Fakatava simply needs game time.
Big fan of Hotham but I think he needs a season or two in Super to develop.
Agreed Roigard should be on the All Blacks XV tour.
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@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks 2022:
What are your guys current All Black halfback power rankings?
Curious as to how Weber has dropped so far out of contention.
Not sold on Fakatava
Hotham + Roigard playing well in NPC
- Smith
- Christie
- Weber
- Fakatava / Roigard
- Perenara / Ratima / Roe
117th. TTT
I'm hoping that Roigard gets in the AB XV programme. Brings something a little different to the 'little nippy guy' Smith/Christie/Weber picture and has more of a 9/10 hybrid about him. Something we haven't had in the play chest since Weepu
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks 2022:
What are your guys current All Black halfback power rankings?
Curious as to how Weber has dropped so far out of contention.
Not sold on Fakatava
Hotham + Roigard playing well in NPC
- Smith
- Christie
- Weber
- Fakatava / Roigard
- Perenara / Ratima / Roe
117th. TTT
I'm hoping that Roigard gets in the AB XV programme. Brings something a little different to the 'little nippy guy' Smith/Christie/Weber picture and has more of a 9/10 hybrid about him. Something we haven't had in the play chest since Weepu
I a bit of a fan of this boy, and still gobsmacked my Canes have got him signed, as they often seem to a bit slow picking them up. I think a trip with the AB XV will be bloody good for him, and he is maybe a point of difference 9. I hope he's not as lazy as Weepu though.:grinning_squinting_face:
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks 2022:
What are your guys current All Black halfback power rankings?
Curious as to how Weber has dropped so far out of contention.
Not sold on Fakatava
Hotham + Roigard playing well in NPC
- Smith
- Christie
- Weber
- Fakatava / Roigard
- Perenara / Ratima / Roe
117th. TTT
I'm hoping that Roigard gets in the AB XV programme. Brings something a little different to the 'little nippy guy' Smith/Christie/Weber picture and has more of a 9/10 hybrid about him. Something we haven't had in the play chest since Weepu
I a bit of a fan of this boy, and still gobsmacked my Canes have got him signed, as they often seem to a bit slow picking them up. I think a trip with the AB XV will be bloody good for him, and he is maybe a point of difference 9. I hope he's not as lazy as Weepu though.:grinning_squinting_face:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks 2022:
What are your guys current All Black halfback power rankings?
Curious as to how Weber has dropped so far out of contention.
Not sold on Fakatava
Hotham + Roigard playing well in NPC
- Smith
- Christie
- Weber
- Fakatava / Roigard
- Perenara / Ratima / Roe
117th. TTT
I'm hoping that Roigard gets in the AB XV programme. Brings something a little different to the 'little nippy guy' Smith/Christie/Weber picture and has more of a 9/10 hybrid about him. Something we haven't had in the play chest since Weepu
I a bit of a fan of this boy, and still gobsmacked my Canes have got him signed, as they often seem to a bit slow picking them up. I think a trip with the AB XV will be bloody good for him, and he is maybe a point of difference 9. I hope he's not as lazy as Weepu though.:grinning_squinting_face:
Piri's slowness stemmed from his puku.
Cant say I have noticed the same with Cam. -
I remember saying last year that Cam Roigard should be starting for the Canes on the back of some impressive performances but got shut down on here because a few Ferners felt he was quite limited. He's just always looked class to me and hope he gets more Super minutes next year. From what I've seen he provides that point of difference to alot of halfbacks in NZ atm. He's more of the Marshall, Cowan mould but looks to have a calm head on his shoulders. I hope both Cam Roigard, and Aiden Morgan get a crack in this All Black XV because I feel they will be one of the leading halves pairings in NZ Rugby for years to come.
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After being shocked at Christie being named in the ABs last year he's been good. I've been pleased with what he brings off of the bench.
Fakatava simply needs game time.
Big fan of Hotham but I think he needs a season or two in Super to develop.
Agreed Roigard should be on the All Blacks XV tour.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
After being shocked at Christie being named in the ABs last year he's been good. I've been pleased with what he brings off of the bench.
Fakatava simply needs game time.
Big fan of Hotham but I think he needs a season or two in Super to develop.
Agreed Roigard should be on the All Blacks XV tour.
this, hard to judge someone with such limited game time
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Fakatava definitely needs game time if he's to hold his spot over Weber for RWC. So far, he's had about 40 minutes of test rugby. That's not enough.
Question is - where does he get enough time?
The game against Japan will have to be something of a dress rehearsal for the Euro teams and it seems like they can't be taken too lightly. How strong was the French team that scraped past them in July?
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Yes I think he is a shoe in as well. Especially when you consider how ineffectual Havilli was against France/SA last year.
I will be massively surprised if Jordie is not at 12 against the big NH teams later this year
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2022:
Yes I think he is a shoe in as well. Especially when you consider how ineffectual Havilli was against France/SA last year.
I will be massively surprised if Jordie is not at 12 against the big NH teams later this year
He was pretty good against the Boks this year, which would probably count for more going into tests later this year….
Also, it’s only England, Wales and Scotland we are playing
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After being shocked at Christie being named in the ABs last year he's been good. I've been pleased with what he brings off of the bench.
Fakatava simply needs game time.
Big fan of Hotham but I think he needs a season or two in Super to develop.
Agreed Roigard should be on the All Blacks XV tour.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
After being shocked at Christie being named in the ABs last year he's been good. I've been pleased with what he brings off of the bench.
He really solid and reliable off the bench.
Fakatava simply needs game time.
Def. needs to be on the EOYT as 3rd 9
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@Machpants said in Bledisloe 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 2:
@Kirwan said in Bledisloe 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 2:
Jordie is a shoe in to start against Wales, Scotland and England.
So does Fozzie leave him at 2nd 5 for all or just a couple of those and have a scenario of perhaps Havili playing 12 against Japan and Wales and Jordie against Scotland and England?
Does Beaudie start at 10 against Japan and and then bench for Wales and then 15 for Scotland and England?
With ALB coming back you could give ALB 13 for Japan and partner with Havili. They played 5 times as a pairing last year against Wales, Boks, Oz and Fiji.
Surely they have to play Perofeta or Dmac at 10 against Japan? It's one of the few games were we can build depth.
What about Perofeta for the AB XV to start both matches? Bring DMac into the ABs for 10 and 15 cover.
Yeah, DMac doesn’t even need to play, just a dirt tracker getting back into the systems, there in case of emergency. RTS should go to XV, as he’s no where near at intl level, play him at 12 every match, he needs more time. Perofuture at 10, same thing every match. ALB to, with virtually no game time, play him 13 every match for XV. There’s f all game until RWC and NZ should maximise them all
Followed by headline - RTS signs 2 year deal with the Roosters
@ACT-Crusader Really can’t see RTS playing as an AB 12 unless it is against Japan. He is better suited at center and he would have to displace Reiko and reserve in ALB. Wonder who said second five is your position or was it that we will fit you in at the Blues as such because we already have our center. He should go back to league.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
After being shocked at Christie being named in the ABs last year he's been good. I've been pleased with what he brings off of the bench.
He really solid and reliable off the bench.
Fakatava simply needs game time.
Def. needs to be on the EOYT as 3rd 9
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
Def. needs to be on the EOYT as 3rd 9
He’d get more time as starting 9 for XV
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@ACT-Crusader Really can’t see RTS playing as an AB 12 unless it is against Japan. He is better suited at center and he would have to displace Reiko and reserve in ALB. Wonder who said second five is your position or was it that we will fit you in at the Blues as such because we already have our center. He should go back to league.
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Really can’t see RTS playing as an AB 12 unless it is against Japan. He is better suited at center and he would have to displace Reiko and reserve in ALB. Wonder who said second five is your position or was it that we will fit you in at the Blues as such because we already have our center. He should go back to league.
MacDonald said they had a spot free at 12 so shoved him in there. Shortsighted really and you have to wonder what the AB coaches were doing while this was happening.
I agree he should probably go back to League. His best bet to make the RWC squad is to play 14 (or at least 15) for the Blues.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
Jordie is a shoe in to start against Wales, Scotland and England.
So does Fozzie leave him at 2nd 5 for all or just a couple of those and have a scenario of perhaps Havili playing 12 against Japan and Wales and Jordie against Scotland and England?
Think Foster will be obviously impressed by Jordie at 12 against Oz but that will be tempered by how good or bad he thinks the Oz team actually were - similar to how some on here have attributed the win to a weak opposition, rather that a good AB performance. Foster/Schmidt probably still see Havilli and Reiko as the top pairing until they see more of JB at 12 so wouldn't be surprised to see him there against Japan and one of Scotland or Wales before he's a shoe-in at 12 for Twickenham.
Does Beaudie start at 10 against Japan and and then bench for Wales and then 15 for Scotland and England?
I'd like to see either Perofeta or DMac. BB is a known quantity at 10.
With ALB coming back you could give ALB 13 for Japan and partner with Havili. They played 5 times as a pairing last year against Wales, Boks, Oz and Fiji.
That's a real conundrum. I'd want a fit and firing ALB in my starting team every time, but, with the current midfield permutations, where do you put him?
If Jordie used at 12, ALB to centre and Rieko to a wing.
@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
Jordie is a shoe in to start against Wales, Scotland and England.
So does Fozzie leave him at 2nd 5 for all or just a couple of those and have a scenario of perhaps Havili playing 12 against Japan and Wales and Jordie against Scotland and England?
Think Foster will be obviously impressed by Jordie at 12 against Oz but that will be tempered by how good or bad he thinks the Oz team actually were - similar to how some on here have attributed the win to a weak opposition, rather that a good AB performance. Foster/Schmidt probably still see Havilli and Reiko as the top pairing until they see more of JB at 12 so wouldn't be surprised to see him there against Japan and one of Scotland or Wales before he's a shoe-in at 12 for Twickenham.
Does Beaudie start at 10 against Japan and and then bench for Wales and then 15 for Scotland and England?
I'd like to see either Perofeta or DMac. BB is a known quantity at 10.
With ALB coming back you could give ALB 13 for Japan and partner with Havili. They played 5 times as a pairing last year against Wales, Boks, Oz and Fiji.
That's a real conundrum. I'd want a fit and firing ALB in my starting team every time, but, with the current midfield permutations, where do you put him?
If Jordie used at 12, ALB to centre and Rieko to a wing.
That would be the worst outcome IMO. They've invested so much with Rieko at 13 and he's shown the development, maturity plus out and out lethal on attack. He's not the finished product and IMO will never be a Conrad Smith but he could be better. If they shift him to the wing now I can't imagine what that will do to his confidence.
Like the front row we are going to have amazing depth at 12/13. Jordie, Havili, RTS at 12 with Goodhue & Tupaea also options. Rieko and ALB primary options at 13.
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@ACT-Crusader Really can’t see RTS playing as an AB 12 unless it is against Japan. He is better suited at center and he would have to displace Reiko and reserve in ALB. Wonder who said second five is your position or was it that we will fit you in at the Blues as such because we already have our center. He should go back to league.
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Really can’t see RTS playing as an AB 12 unless it is against Japan. He is better suited at center and he would have to displace Reiko and reserve in ALB. Wonder who said second five is your position or was it that we will fit you in at the Blues as such because we already have our center. He should go back to league.
He'd be lost at Centre defensively. 12/11/14 as a utility would be his best bet. There are so many options he's going to have to compete.
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@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Really can’t see RTS playing as an AB 12 unless it is against Japan. He is better suited at center and he would have to displace Reiko and reserve in ALB. Wonder who said second five is your position or was it that we will fit you in at the Blues as such because we already have our center. He should go back to league.
He'd be lost at Centre defensively. 12/11/14 as a utility would be his best bet. There are so many options he's going to have to compete.
@TheMojoman possibly the point is I can’t see him being in the mix unless he does something miraculous.
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@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Really can’t see RTS playing as an AB 12 unless it is against Japan. He is better suited at center and he would have to displace Reiko and reserve in ALB. Wonder who said second five is your position or was it that we will fit you in at the Blues as such because we already have our center. He should go back to league.
MacDonald said they had a spot free at 12 so shoved him in there. Shortsighted really and you have to wonder what the AB coaches were doing while this was happening.
I agree he should probably go back to League. His best bet to make the RWC squad is to play 14 (or at least 15) for the Blues.
@Frye said in All Blacks 2022:
His best bet to make the RWC squad is to play 14 (or at least 15) for the Blues.
Just because someone is a fullback in league doesn't mean they are suited to fullback in rugby. Different requirements. Pushing Zarn and Perofeta out of 15 would have been a huge call.
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@Frye said in All Blacks 2022:
His best bet to make the RWC squad is to play 14 (or at least 15) for the Blues.
Just because someone is a fullback in league doesn't mean they are suited to fullback in rugby. Different requirements. Pushing Zarn and Perofeta out of 15 would have been a huge call.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frye said in All Blacks 2022:
His best bet to make the RWC squad is to play 14 (or at least 15) for the Blues.
Just because someone is a fullback in league doesn't mean they are suited to fullback in rugby. Different requirements. Pushing Zarn and Perofeta out of 15 would have been a huge call.
Which is why I said 14.
