Foster, Robertson etc
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@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
Yep it is a lot like the British league's side used to run their attacking patterns a few years ago.
Target the player looping or not letting the forward runners get to far over the advantage line while trying to slow down the phase ball nullifies it,But easier said than done if it is a well drilled team sending it your way. -
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
Gee, hope the ABs actually have an actual plan to stop it come World Cup time.
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Last week we built a similar lead to what South Africa did today but folded like a cheap suit when down a man for the final 10 minutes. South Africa went down a man for the final 20 minutes but held onto their lead for a dominant win. Despite all the improvement that Ryan and Schmidt have brought the Foster factor still hangs over the team and we are still flaky as hell.
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Last week we built a similar lead to what South Africa did today but folded like a cheap suit when down a man for the final 10 minutes. South Africa went down a man for the final 20 minutes but held onto their lead for a dominant win. Despite all the improvement that Ryan and Schmidt have brought the Foster factor still hangs over the team and we are still flaky as hell.
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Last week we built a similar lead to what South Africa did today but folded like a cheap suit when down a man for the final 10 minutes. South Africa went down a man for the final 20 minutes but held onto their lead for a dominant win. Despite all the improvement that Ryan and Schmidt have brought the Foster factor still hangs over the team and we are still flaky as hell.
Im assuming they didn't resort to attacking from deep in their own half and low percentage cross field kicks?
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
esp. A.Smith and his kicking stance
I mean I'm with you for the rest of it, but what the fuck? Oh yeah because every other halfback, we're absolutely clueless they're going to throw up a box until it's halfway down the tramlines.
That's not a thing.
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@Bones Back leg straight, foot pointed towards the sky, the ole box kick stance. There ain't no subtlety in it.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bones Back leg straight, foot pointed towards the sky, the ole box kick stance. There ain't no subtlety in it.
Oh not disputing that, but I can't think how Smith is any different (unless of course you're hinting at the lack of running threat as TR mentioned).
If anything it's in a way less telegraphed as he doesn't fuck about setting a snake and rolling the ball back half a mile.
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Last week we built a similar lead to what South Africa did today but folded like a cheap suit when down a man for the final 10 minutes. South Africa went down a man for the final 20 minutes but held onto their lead for a dominant win. Despite all the improvement that Ryan and Schmidt have brought the Foster factor still hangs over the team and we are still flaky as hell.
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Last week we built a similar lead to what South Africa did today but folded like a cheap suit when down a man for the final 10 minutes. South Africa went down a man for the final 20 minutes but held onto their lead for a dominant win. Despite all the improvement that Ryan and Schmidt have brought the Foster factor still hangs over the team and we are still flaky as hell.
Sth Africa dealt with being a man down as well as the AB's did when BB was sin-binned at Ellis Park in the RC.
In the England game, we seem to have gone backwards in that aspect of play compared that Ellis Park win - particularly in the forwards where we were a bit shambolic in the last 10 minutes. Whitelock in particular looked fatigued and a little bit lost. The forwards in the last 10 minutes reminded me a bit of the Crusaders blowing that 5m scrum and gifting a win to the Blues in CH earlier this year.
Foster & his forwards coach need to sort that aspect out pronto and get back into the same groove as we had at Ellis Park.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Last week we built a similar lead to what South Africa did today but folded like a cheap suit when down a man for the final 10 minutes. South Africa went down a man for the final 20 minutes but held onto their lead for a dominant win. Despite all the improvement that Ryan and Schmidt have brought the Foster factor still hangs over the team and we are still flaky as hell.
Sth Africa dealt with being a man down as well as the AB's did when BB was sin-binned at Ellis Park in the RC.
In the England game, we seem to have gone backwards in that aspect of play compared that Ellis Park win - particularly in the forwards where we were a bit shambolic in the last 10 minutes. Whitelock in particular looked fatigued and a little bit lost. The forwards in the last 10 minutes reminded me a bit of the Crusaders blowing that 5m scrum and gifting a win to the Blues in CH earlier this year.
Foster & his forwards coach need to sort that aspect out pronto and get back into the same groove as we had at Ellis Park.
@Victor-Meldrew yep mate, I perhaps thought at end of test maybe why Sam W (much as I a fan) would be a risky captain for WC, I thought he looked fairly shot at end of test. I also thought it showed a bit how there seems to be a lack of leadership in backline without BB there?
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@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
Oh hell yeah Rieko looping around and taking the ball on the outside shoulder of the decoy runners would probably just run the try in untouched. Annoys me that we don't exploit that rule to give him more space. If we started doing that effectively with a player like him WR would probably have a look at the shepherding rules.
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so, what realisations can we expect from fozzie in 3-4 years time?
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so, what realisations can we expect from fozzie in 3-4 years time?
@Kiwiwomble Hansen admits he gets his selection wrong for the semi final in a pursuit of trying to get dual play makers to succeed.
NZR decide its best to continue by giving Foster the job because he will follow Hansen's glorious lead and maintain consistency
Fast forward 2022 and what have we learnt..? lol..this is a dark comedy indeed
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God that was so obvious at the time as well. Do we play veterans Beauden and Smith at 10/15, or do we throw an unproven rookie in at 10 and play Beauden out of position? Poor selections really cost us that cup.
@No-Quarter said in Foster, Robertson etc:
God that was so obvious at the time as well. Do we play veterans Beauden and Smith at 10/15, or do we throw an unproven rookie in at 10 and play Beauden out of position? Poor selections really cost us that cup.
I've said it before, but after spending years banging the "Experience" drum, Hansen more or less abandoned it at the final hurdle.
He could have fielded Beauden, Reiko, SBW, Crotty and Smith - but, he went with the relative rookies Richie, Sevu, ALB, Goodhue, Bridge and Beauden - as well as the SBarrett/Cane shift in the forwards.
I wonder how many of those guys he would change if he had his time again - two (Cane and Smith) he's apparently specified.
At the time it seemed like he was picking on form, but it was a bit odd that he left his drum behind.
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@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
The Maori played with much more of a rush, as they appeared to have a defense coach and system appropriate to the 21st century, and unsurprisingly caused that pattern a few more problems.
Helped by the Irish tram that was put out not being as powerful up front or crisp in their passing.
But yes, our defensive pattern actually plays in to the Irish hands as we like to isolate our wingers and rely on the centre holding in then using pace to cover. Ireland exploit that very seam.
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
The Maori played with much more of a rush, as they appeared to have a defense coach and system appropriate to the 21st century, and unsurprisingly caused that pattern a few more problems.
Helped by the Irish tram that was put out not being as powerful up front or crisp in their passing.
But yes, our defensive pattern actually plays in to the Irish hands as we like to isolate our wingers and rely on the centre holding in then using pace to cover. Ireland exploit that very seam.
I think our defence worked better when Ioane was on the wing because out there he knew how to defend using the side line. Not sure he’s got the defending the space in that sort of attacking pattern when he’s in the centre position, down pat.
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@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
The Maori played with much more of a rush, as they appeared to have a defense coach and system appropriate to the 21st century, and unsurprisingly caused that pattern a few more problems.
Helped by the Irish tram that was put out not being as powerful up front or crisp in their passing.
But yes, our defensive pattern actually plays in to the Irish hands as we like to isolate our wingers and rely on the centre holding in then using pace to cover. Ireland exploit that very seam.
I think our defence worked better when Ioane was on the wing because out there he knew how to defend using the side line. Not sure he’s got the defending the space in that sort of attacking pattern when he’s in the centre position, down pat.
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
The Maori played with much more of a rush, as they appeared to have a defense coach and system appropriate to the 21st century, and unsurprisingly caused that pattern a few more problems.
Helped by the Irish tram that was put out not being as powerful up front or crisp in their passing.
But yes, our defensive pattern actually plays in to the Irish hands as we like to isolate our wingers and rely on the centre holding in then using pace to cover. Ireland exploit that very seam.
I think our defence worked better when Ioane was on the wing because out there he knew how to defend using the side line. Not sure he’s got the defending the space in that sort of attacking pattern when he’s in the centre position, down pat.
i used to think it was Ioane until i saw ALB, a very experienced centre, defending in exactly the same way. I think our 13s are being asked to do something that looks whack to us.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
The Maori played with much more of a rush, as they appeared to have a defense coach and system appropriate to the 21st century, and unsurprisingly caused that pattern a few more problems.
Helped by the Irish tram that was put out not being as powerful up front or crisp in their passing.
But yes, our defensive pattern actually plays in to the Irish hands as we like to isolate our wingers and rely on the centre holding in then using pace to cover. Ireland exploit that very seam.
I think our defence worked better when Ioane was on the wing because out there he knew how to defend using the side line. Not sure he’s got the defending the space in that sort of attacking pattern when he’s in the centre position, down pat.
i used to think it was Ioane until i saw ALB, a very experienced centre, defending in exactly the same way. I think our 13s are being asked to do something that looks whack to us.
@mariner4life it was interesting in that Melbourne Bledisloe watching Clarke and Ioane effectively change positions in the set piece defensive line with Clarke coming in closer and Ioane out wider towards the side line. Not that it made a difference because Clarke got smoked.
Post Nonu/Smith our best defensive midfield has been Crotty/ALB. Played both the drift and direct attack well.
Whether it’s personnel or pattern, something has to change quickly.
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@Machpants agreed..."alot of nations are moving early and did so in the last cycle too"...maybe, they didnt move early, you were just late?
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@Machpants Yep.
