Foster, Robertson etc
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@Bones Back leg straight, foot pointed towards the sky, the ole box kick stance. There ain't no subtlety in it.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bones Back leg straight, foot pointed towards the sky, the ole box kick stance. There ain't no subtlety in it.
Oh not disputing that, but I can't think how Smith is any different (unless of course you're hinting at the lack of running threat as TR mentioned).
If anything it's in a way less telegraphed as he doesn't fuck about setting a snake and rolling the ball back half a mile.
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Last week we built a similar lead to what South Africa did today but folded like a cheap suit when down a man for the final 10 minutes. South Africa went down a man for the final 20 minutes but held onto their lead for a dominant win. Despite all the improvement that Ryan and Schmidt have brought the Foster factor still hangs over the team and we are still flaky as hell.
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Last week we built a similar lead to what South Africa did today but folded like a cheap suit when down a man for the final 10 minutes. South Africa went down a man for the final 20 minutes but held onto their lead for a dominant win. Despite all the improvement that Ryan and Schmidt have brought the Foster factor still hangs over the team and we are still flaky as hell.
Sth Africa dealt with being a man down as well as the AB's did when BB was sin-binned at Ellis Park in the RC.
In the England game, we seem to have gone backwards in that aspect of play compared that Ellis Park win - particularly in the forwards where we were a bit shambolic in the last 10 minutes. Whitelock in particular looked fatigued and a little bit lost. The forwards in the last 10 minutes reminded me a bit of the Crusaders blowing that 5m scrum and gifting a win to the Blues in CH earlier this year.
Foster & his forwards coach need to sort that aspect out pronto and get back into the same groove as we had at Ellis Park.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Last week we built a similar lead to what South Africa did today but folded like a cheap suit when down a man for the final 10 minutes. South Africa went down a man for the final 20 minutes but held onto their lead for a dominant win. Despite all the improvement that Ryan and Schmidt have brought the Foster factor still hangs over the team and we are still flaky as hell.
Sth Africa dealt with being a man down as well as the AB's did when BB was sin-binned at Ellis Park in the RC.
In the England game, we seem to have gone backwards in that aspect of play compared that Ellis Park win - particularly in the forwards where we were a bit shambolic in the last 10 minutes. Whitelock in particular looked fatigued and a little bit lost. The forwards in the last 10 minutes reminded me a bit of the Crusaders blowing that 5m scrum and gifting a win to the Blues in CH earlier this year.
Foster & his forwards coach need to sort that aspect out pronto and get back into the same groove as we had at Ellis Park.
@Victor-Meldrew yep mate, I perhaps thought at end of test maybe why Sam W (much as I a fan) would be a risky captain for WC, I thought he looked fairly shot at end of test. I also thought it showed a bit how there seems to be a lack of leadership in backline without BB there?
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@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
Oh hell yeah Rieko looping around and taking the ball on the outside shoulder of the decoy runners would probably just run the try in untouched. Annoys me that we don't exploit that rule to give him more space. If we started doing that effectively with a player like him WR would probably have a look at the shepherding rules.
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so, what realisations can we expect from fozzie in 3-4 years time?
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so, what realisations can we expect from fozzie in 3-4 years time?
@Kiwiwomble Hansen admits he gets his selection wrong for the semi final in a pursuit of trying to get dual play makers to succeed.
NZR decide its best to continue by giving Foster the job because he will follow Hansen's glorious lead and maintain consistency
Fast forward 2022 and what have we learnt..? lol..this is a dark comedy indeed
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God that was so obvious at the time as well. Do we play veterans Beauden and Smith at 10/15, or do we throw an unproven rookie in at 10 and play Beauden out of position? Poor selections really cost us that cup.
@No-Quarter said in Foster, Robertson etc:
God that was so obvious at the time as well. Do we play veterans Beauden and Smith at 10/15, or do we throw an unproven rookie in at 10 and play Beauden out of position? Poor selections really cost us that cup.
I've said it before, but after spending years banging the "Experience" drum, Hansen more or less abandoned it at the final hurdle.
He could have fielded Beauden, Reiko, SBW, Crotty and Smith - but, he went with the relative rookies Richie, Sevu, ALB, Goodhue, Bridge and Beauden - as well as the SBarrett/Cane shift in the forwards.
I wonder how many of those guys he would change if he had his time again - two (Cane and Smith) he's apparently specified.
At the time it seemed like he was picking on form, but it was a bit odd that he left his drum behind.
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@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
The Maori played with much more of a rush, as they appeared to have a defense coach and system appropriate to the 21st century, and unsurprisingly caused that pattern a few more problems.
Helped by the Irish tram that was put out not being as powerful up front or crisp in their passing.
But yes, our defensive pattern actually plays in to the Irish hands as we like to isolate our wingers and rely on the centre holding in then using pace to cover. Ireland exploit that very seam.
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
The Maori played with much more of a rush, as they appeared to have a defense coach and system appropriate to the 21st century, and unsurprisingly caused that pattern a few more problems.
Helped by the Irish tram that was put out not being as powerful up front or crisp in their passing.
But yes, our defensive pattern actually plays in to the Irish hands as we like to isolate our wingers and rely on the centre holding in then using pace to cover. Ireland exploit that very seam.
I think our defence worked better when Ioane was on the wing because out there he knew how to defend using the side line. Not sure he’s got the defending the space in that sort of attacking pattern when he’s in the centre position, down pat.
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@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
The Maori played with much more of a rush, as they appeared to have a defense coach and system appropriate to the 21st century, and unsurprisingly caused that pattern a few more problems.
Helped by the Irish tram that was put out not being as powerful up front or crisp in their passing.
But yes, our defensive pattern actually plays in to the Irish hands as we like to isolate our wingers and rely on the centre holding in then using pace to cover. Ireland exploit that very seam.
I think our defence worked better when Ioane was on the wing because out there he knew how to defend using the side line. Not sure he’s got the defending the space in that sort of attacking pattern when he’s in the centre position, down pat.
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
The Maori played with much more of a rush, as they appeared to have a defense coach and system appropriate to the 21st century, and unsurprisingly caused that pattern a few more problems.
Helped by the Irish tram that was put out not being as powerful up front or crisp in their passing.
But yes, our defensive pattern actually plays in to the Irish hands as we like to isolate our wingers and rely on the centre holding in then using pace to cover. Ireland exploit that very seam.
I think our defence worked better when Ioane was on the wing because out there he knew how to defend using the side line. Not sure he’s got the defending the space in that sort of attacking pattern when he’s in the centre position, down pat.
i used to think it was Ioane until i saw ALB, a very experienced centre, defending in exactly the same way. I think our 13s are being asked to do something that looks whack to us.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ireland run the same attack religiously, it has like 2 variations.
What are those variations?
Seriously?
I was asking you because, unlike me, you seem to know something about rugby.
I'm meaning their attack patterns.
Was interested in what they actually are.Ok it's obviously way more complicated than this but
Check out videos from their tour to NZ. They compress their attack in to like half the field. And they either hit forwards running unders angles if the defence stays strung out across the field, or they use their backs running loops to outflank you if you compress.
This way they exploit where you are weakest. It works because they have great forward runners and their timing is excellent. If they had real pace at 13 they would carve teams. R Ioane at 13 for Ireland would be fucking lethal with the space they create.
The Maori actually stopped it a few times by spot tackling the looping player. But the ABs struggled with that.
The Maori played with much more of a rush, as they appeared to have a defense coach and system appropriate to the 21st century, and unsurprisingly caused that pattern a few more problems.
Helped by the Irish tram that was put out not being as powerful up front or crisp in their passing.
But yes, our defensive pattern actually plays in to the Irish hands as we like to isolate our wingers and rely on the centre holding in then using pace to cover. Ireland exploit that very seam.
I think our defence worked better when Ioane was on the wing because out there he knew how to defend using the side line. Not sure he’s got the defending the space in that sort of attacking pattern when he’s in the centre position, down pat.
i used to think it was Ioane until i saw ALB, a very experienced centre, defending in exactly the same way. I think our 13s are being asked to do something that looks whack to us.
@mariner4life it was interesting in that Melbourne Bledisloe watching Clarke and Ioane effectively change positions in the set piece defensive line with Clarke coming in closer and Ioane out wider towards the side line. Not that it made a difference because Clarke got smoked.
Post Nonu/Smith our best defensive midfield has been Crotty/ALB. Played both the drift and direct attack well.
Whether it’s personnel or pattern, something has to change quickly.
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@Machpants agreed..."alot of nations are moving early and did so in the last cycle too"...maybe, they didnt move early, you were just late?
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@Machpants Yep.
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@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Stargazer said in Foster, Robertson etc:
What a pile of waffle
No problems we still have Fozzie to reappoint after the WC,For another 4 years.
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@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Stargazer said in Foster, Robertson etc:
What a pile of waffle
No problems we still have Fozzie to reappoint after the WC,For another 4 years.
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@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Stargazer said in Foster, Robertson etc:
What a pile of waffle
Why? What do you want him to say? They are talking with Scott Robertson etc, mate if we got to appoint coaches because they may go somewhere else f*** em, I'll take a coach who wants to coach ABs. They not going to say we got Robertson lined up , as it closes doors on others, like Jamie Joseph. Everyone know that Robertson is contracted to NZR until 2024 anyway, so obviously holding him to then,!
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@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Stargazer said in Foster, Robertson etc:
What a pile of waffle
Why? What do you want him to say? They are talking with Scott Robertson etc, mate if we got to appoint coaches because they may go somewhere else f*** em, I'll take a coach who wants to coach ABs. They not going to say we got Robertson lined up , as it closes doors on others, like Jamie Joseph. Everyone know that Robertson is contracted to NZR until 2024 anyway, so obviously holding him to then,!
@Dan54 I think if he said we have started the process, would be more than sufficient, instead, he danced around like a politician.
It aint like Fozzie doesnt know he has to reapply, win or not, so putting the feelers out signalling those who think they are a shot, thier time is coming, it certainly aint gonna hurt anyones feelings...who knows, Fozzie may have already indicated he wont even reapply...
Instead, like last time, most of the applicants felt it was a closed shop and done deal (whether it was or not is irrelevant if several potential candidates think it is)
Like he said himself, other unions are already making moves, instead he's focussed on other stuff, when in reality, this next 12 months is quite important for NZR given the relative cluster fuck the last 18 months has been on the coaching front, he needs to get this right.
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@Dan54 I think if he said we have started the process, would be more than sufficient, instead, he danced around like a politician.
It aint like Fozzie doesnt know he has to reapply, win or not, so putting the feelers out signalling those who think they are a shot, thier time is coming, it certainly aint gonna hurt anyones feelings...who knows, Fozzie may have already indicated he wont even reapply...
Instead, like last time, most of the applicants felt it was a closed shop and done deal (whether it was or not is irrelevant if several potential candidates think it is)
Like he said himself, other unions are already making moves, instead he's focussed on other stuff, when in reality, this next 12 months is quite important for NZR given the relative cluster fuck the last 18 months has been on the coaching front, he needs to get this right.
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 I think if he said we have started the process, would be more than sufficient, instead, he danced around like a politician.
It aint like Fozzie doesnt know he has to reapply, win or not, so putting the feelers out signalling those who think they are a shot, thier time is coming, it certainly aint gonna hurt anyones feelings...who knows, Fozzie may have already indicated he wont even reapply...
Instead, like last time, most of the applicants felt it was a closed shop and done deal (whether it was or not is irrelevant if several potential candidates think it is)
Like he said himself, other unions are already making moves, instead he's focussed on other stuff, when in reality, this next 12 months is quite important for NZR given the relative cluster fuck the last 18 months has been on the coaching front, he needs to get this right.
Yep totally agree just more incompetence,Puss footing around and backing themselves into another corner post WC.
They are one very incompetent board that lot.The majority of the board have no rugby nous or background.
