Foster, Robertson etc
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Crucial I get your point about fair process and fair enough. By what process was the incumbent AB coach chosen?
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I think that no matter how things got to this point it is where it is.
If you announce Razor as taking over after RWC you will undermine Foster. Forget distractions as the reason. Foster would be undermined.
There's a good reason for don't come Monday coach replacements. If you dont do them you leave the incumbent as a dead duck.
NZR either have to grow some huge cahones and sack Foster (pay him out) now or wait and do the process after the RWC. Simple as that.
If they say 'we aren't going to reconsider Foster when his contract expires' they are saying to all the players that they don't think he is up to the job. Why would the players then listen to what he says or believe in the gameplans etc?
NZR do have to tell players and coaches a clear appointment process soon. This is a mess.
They think they did so by confirming him but by Razor making press comments and them keeping quiet they have to confirm all over again. If they are second guessing their previous decision then they have to act decisively, they can't sit on the fence.
To me that is what Foster is saying. "For the good of the team you need to back me fully by declaring I am still a future option (ie process after RWC) or make a change now''.
I think that is fair enough. -
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I never did. You twist and twist like a twisty thing.
Never said you did. I simply asked you a question to clarify your thinking around your comment that "Appointing the next coach, I'd say, has a lot to do with Foster's job."
If it is not his job don't talk about it.
He wasn't talking about the process (which he made very clear wasn't his job) - he was talking about the impact on coaching the ABs which is his job. (You argued, remember, that it has a lot to do with Foster's job)
I'm saying he is telling them he'd like them to choose after the cup and he'd like yet another chance if he/they win this one.
He isn't "telling" them to do anything - he's made it clear it's their choice. He's offering an opinion that, in his view, the downsides of choosing a new coach pre-RWC2023 outweigh the upsides. Should he have done so publicly? Dunno.
And of course he'd want another crack at the job if he won - who wouldn't?
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I never did. You twist and twist like a twisty thing.
Never said you did. I simply asked you a question to clarify your thinking around your comment that "Appointing the next coach, I'd say, has a lot to do with Foster's job."
If it is not his job don't talk about it.
He wasn't talking about the process (which he made very clear wasn't his job) - he was talking about the impact on coaching the ABs which is his job. (You argued, remember, that it has a lot to do with Foster's job)
I'm saying he is telling them he'd like them to choose after the cup and he'd like yet another chance if he/they win this one.
He isn't "telling" them to do anything - he's made it clear it's their choice. He's offering an opinion that, in his view, the downsides of choosing a new coach pre-RWC2023 outweigh the upsides. Should he have done so publicly? Dunno.
And of course he'd want another crack at the job if he won - who wouldn't?
Let us agree to disagree. In my opinion, you extrapolate wildly from what I say and then try to persuade me to accept or deny these extrapolations.
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New Zealand Rugby wants to have contracted the next coaching team – **which won’t include Foster** – by April, a timing that Foster says could be a distraction for the All Blacks’ playing and coaching teams during World Cup year."won't include Foster"?? Where was this said or reported? Or is the senior reporter (Neil Reid?) drinking from a hidden sauce bottle?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I don't care if Foster's ABs go on to win the RWC with the kind of dominance that would make the 87 lot jealous.
Bookmarked for reference and use in the forthcoming RWC2023 thread later this year.....
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I don't care if Foster's ABs go on to win the RWC with the kind of dominance that would make the 87 lot jealous.
Bookmarked for reference and use in the forthcoming RWC2023 thread later this year.....
Yeah you do that. I stand by that 100% and I bet I'm not the only one. I've been vocal here for years about how the RWC is secondary to the ABs overall history and record.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I don't care if Foster's ABs go on to win the RWC with the kind of dominance that would make the 87 lot jealous.
Bookmarked for reference and use in the forthcoming RWC2023 thread later this year.....
Yeah you do that. I stand by that 100% and I bet I'm not the only one. I've been vocal here for years about how the RWC is secondary to the ABs overall history and record.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I don't care if Foster's ABs go on to win the RWC with the kind of dominance that would make the 87 lot jealous.
Bookmarked for reference and use in the forthcoming RWC2023 thread later this year.....
Yeah you do that. I stand by that 100% and I bet I'm not the only one. I've been vocal here for years about how the RWC is secondary to the ABs overall history and record.
RS blocks my posts so won't see this but how can you separate the two?
Don't RWCs form part of the ABs overall history and record? -
A strong coaching record should be the basis of selecting an AB coach. So how did we get to where we are at
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A strong coaching record should be the basis of selecting an AB coach. So how did we get to where we are at
@BerniesCorner said in Foster, Robertson etc:
A strong coaching record should be the basis of selecting an AB coach. So how did we get to where we are at
Because Foster had a strong (Assistant) Coaching record, had good references, had international experience (knew how prep for travel/ tours, last minute contingencies etc worked) and was, originally, the prime candidate. To the point that the other other two viable contenders took the offers they had elsewhere rather than end up a dog with two bones.
The next phase was (by accounts) due to Razor not presenting well at interview.
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@BerniesCorner said in Foster, Robertson etc:
A strong coaching record should be the basis of selecting an AB coach. So how did we get to where we are at
Because Foster had a strong (Assistant) Coaching record, had good references, had international experience (knew how prep for travel/ tours, last minute contingencies etc worked) and was, originally, the prime candidate. To the point that the other other two viable contenders took the offers they had elsewhere rather than end up a dog with two bones.
The next phase was (by accounts) due to Razor not presenting well at interview.
@Crucial was the "not presenting well" just the confidence we've heard mentioned as a negative?
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@Crucial was the "not presenting well" just the confidence we've heard mentioned as a negative?
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial was the "not presenting well" just the confidence we've heard mentioned as a negative?
It's a rumour. Like much in this thread. Gossip that went around saying he flunked the interview/ didn't read the room etc
Has happened to others as well. Deans, Smith.... -
@BerniesCorner said in Foster, Robertson etc:
A strong coaching record should be the basis of selecting an AB coach. So how did we get to where we are at
Because Foster had a strong (Assistant) Coaching record, had good references, had international experience (knew how prep for travel/ tours, last minute contingencies etc worked) and was, originally, the prime candidate. To the point that the other other two viable contenders took the offers they had elsewhere rather than end up a dog with two bones.
The next phase was (by accounts) due to Razor not presenting well at interview.
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
The next phase was (by accounts) due to Razor not presenting well at interview.
Obviously they must have different levels in force at the Crusaders where he clearly must have "presented well at interview".
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@Crucial was the "not presenting well" just the confidence we've heard mentioned as a negative?
@Kiwiwomble might have been the breakdancing, not up to prop standard, apparently!
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/im-smashing-my-tv-former-all-black-unhappy-with-crusaders-coach-robertson/ -
@BerniesCorner said in Foster, Robertson etc:
A strong coaching record should be the basis of selecting an AB coach. So how did we get to where we are at
Because Foster had a strong (Assistant) Coaching record, had good references, had international experience (knew how prep for travel/ tours, last minute contingencies etc worked) and was, originally, the prime candidate. To the point that the other other two viable contenders took the offers they had elsewhere rather than end up a dog with two bones.
The next phase was (by accounts) due to Razor not presenting well at interview.
@Crucial his International experience was limited to his time as Assistant in the ABs wasnt it?
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@Crucial his International experience was limited to his time as Assistant in the ABs wasnt it?
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial his International experience was limited to his time as Assistant in the ABs wasnt it?
Co-coach of the JABs who played other international teams.
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@Crucial his International experience was limited to his time as Assistant in the ABs wasnt it?
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial his International experience was limited to his time as Assistant in the ABs wasnt it?
Yes but it wasn't just as an underling. Hansen promoted him heavily as part of a coaching/management team. Although he didn't carry head coach responsibilities he was doing a fair bit of head coach like duties.
For me the 'international' part is simply that the picture is very different planning wise.
Razor is excellent at planning SR campaigns but a test programme/ RWC is entirely different. You don't have the same rotation luxuries, you don't get to try things out as much, the season can be very different year to year (eg facing Ireland cold last year), the pool of international quality players is smaller than SR level for selction...I'm not saying that Razor couldn't deal with all of that just that he hasn't experienced it yet.
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@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial his International experience was limited to his time as Assistant in the ABs wasnt it?
Yes but it wasn't just as an underling. Hansen promoted him heavily as part of a coaching/management team. Although he didn't carry head coach responsibilities he was doing a fair bit of head coach like duties.
For me the 'international' part is simply that the picture is very different planning wise.
Razor is excellent at planning SR campaigns but a test programme/ RWC is entirely different. You don't have the same rotation luxuries, you don't get to try things out as much, the season can be very different year to year (eg facing Ireland cold last year), the pool of international quality players is smaller than SR level for selction...I'm not saying that Razor couldn't deal with all of that just that he hasn't experienced it yet.
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Razor is excellent at planning SR campaigns but a test programme/ RWC is entirely different. You don't have the same rotation luxuries, you don't get to try things out as much, the season can be very different year to year (eg facing Ireland cold last year), the pool of international quality players is smaller than SR level for selction...
Woah!!! Sounds like it might be to hard for him.
Needs a few more years at Super level for the massive change. -
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Razor is excellent at planning SR campaigns but a test programme/ RWC is entirely different. You don't have the same rotation luxuries, you don't get to try things out as much, the season can be very different year to year (eg facing Ireland cold last year), the pool of international quality players is smaller than SR level for selction...
Woah!!! Sounds like it might be to hard for him.
Needs a few more years at Super level for the massive change.@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Razor is excellent at planning SR campaigns but a test programme/ RWC is entirely different. You don't have the same rotation luxuries, you don't get to try things out as much, the season can be very different year to year (eg facing Ireland cold last year), the pool of international quality players is smaller than SR level for selction...
Woah!!! Sounds like it might be to hard for him.
Needs a few more years at Super level for the massive change.Nice of you not to quote the full post just so you could make a pithy remark.
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@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Razor is excellent at planning SR campaigns but a test programme/ RWC is entirely different. You don't have the same rotation luxuries, you don't get to try things out as much, the season can be very different year to year (eg facing Ireland cold last year), the pool of international quality players is smaller than SR level for selction...
Woah!!! Sounds like it might be to hard for him.
Needs a few more years at Super level for the massive change.@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Razor is excellent at planning SR campaigns but a test programme/ RWC is entirely different. You don't have the same rotation luxuries, you don't get to try things out as much, the season can be very different year to year (eg facing Ireland cold last year), the pool of international quality players is smaller than SR level for selction...
Woah!!! Sounds like it might be to hard for him.
Needs a few more years at Super level for the massive change.Yes I'm sure a full-time professional coach with international ambitions would be completely unaware of those insurmountable obstacles.
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@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Razor is excellent at planning SR campaigns but a test programme/ RWC is entirely different. You don't have the same rotation luxuries, you don't get to try things out as much, the season can be very different year to year (eg facing Ireland cold last year), the pool of international quality players is smaller than SR level for selction...
Woah!!! Sounds like it might be to hard for him.
Needs a few more years at Super level for the massive change.Yes I'm sure a full-time professional coach with international ambitions would be completely unaware of those insurmountable obstacles.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Razor is excellent at planning SR campaigns but a test programme/ RWC is entirely different. You don't have the same rotation luxuries, you don't get to try things out as much, the season can be very different year to year (eg facing Ireland cold last year), the pool of international quality players is smaller than SR level for selction...
Woah!!! Sounds like it might be to hard for him.
Needs a few more years at Super level for the massive change.Yes I'm sure a full-time professional coach with international ambitions would be completely unaware of those insurmountable obstacles.
See the problem when you block a person then comment on their misquoted posts?
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to me it feels like he is the one creating the 'distraction', creating an issue for his players to grab hold of.
Maybe if he told his team, win, lose or draw, I'm done post RWC (assuming this was his plan, but by the sounds of it, it isn't...) it would remove any 'distractions' but at the same time, he should have told all his main squad not to annouce thier intentions post-RWC as well, cos 'distractions'
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
to me it feels like he is the one creating the 'distraction', creating an issue for his players to grab hold of.
Maybe if he told his team, win, lose or draw, I'm done post RWC (assuming this was his plan, but by the sounds of it, it isn't...) it would remove any 'distractions' but at the same time, he should have told all his main squad not to annouce thier intentions post-RWC as well, cos 'distractions'
yep, well said.
