All Blacks 2023
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Old-Samurai-Jack
Ireland did the opposite.From my limited understanding, I believe Schmitt was hugely influential in administering change at both club level and higher.
The thinking and changes took place well before Schmidt joined. Cheika at Leinster was also hugely influential according to O'Driscoll
I understand your argument and I agree about the systemic problems in NZ rugby, but are you arguing to keep the current AB coach because there are problems elsewhere?
That seems to counter your argument and the part I don't understand.Nothing to do with Foster or whoever is Head Coach (did I even mention him?). I'm talking about the need for some thinking around player development at senior levels and putting some better structure in place.
Part of the changes surely would be to put someone in the AB coaching role with some new innovation to head the needed changes.
Well, we could think about putting put someone close to the coaching staff (maybe call him a National Performance director...) and use him to co-ordinate player development up and down the tree. This might work better than one relying on one bloke (the AB Head Coach) to drive skills, player development and performance across lower levels by proxy or osmosis.
Foster, for all his experience, is not an innovator. Change is not in his DNA.
What has Foster got to do with it?
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Old-Samurai-Jack
Ireland did the opposite.From my limited understanding, I believe Schmitt was hugely influential in administering change at both club level and higher.
The thinking and changes took place well before Schmidt joined. Cheika at Leinster was also hugely influential according to O'Driscoll
I understand your argument and I agree about the systemic problems in NZ rugby, but are you arguing to keep the current AB coach because there are problems elsewhere?
That seems to counter your argument and the part I don't understand.Nothing to do with Foster or whoever is Head Coach (did I even mention him?). I'm talking about the need for some thinking around player development at senior levels and putting some better structure in place.
Part of the changes surely would be to put someone in the AB coaching role with some new innovation to head the needed changes.
Well, we could think about putting put someone close to the coaching staff (maybe call him a National Performance director...) and use him to co-ordinate player development up and down the tree. This might work better than one relying on one bloke (the AB Head Coach) to drive skills, player development and performance across lower levels by proxy or osmosis.
Foster, for all his experience, is not an innovator. Change is not in his DNA.
What has Foster got to do with it?
Cheers. Totally agree except I think having an AB head coach with a different direction will be hugely influential in the changes that are needed. Top-down as well as bottom-up changes are needed. I mention Foster because I think you are stating changing the AB head coach would have little effect. I tend to disagree on that part.
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Every time. Every... fucking... time.
@Victor-Meldrew states something as simple as "I don't think just replacing the Head Coach of the All Blacks is going to fix everything... a more fundamental look at the entire structure is more likely to be of benefit"
Somebody interprets at as "Defending Foster". Just... how the fuck do we teach comprehension?
1 - There is ZERO fucking defence of Ian Foster in Meldrew's theory.
2 - Meldrew is NOT defending Ian Foster.
3 - Fucking FORGET Foster... nobody cares, not a single fucking bit, about yet another "Ugh... Foster is useless, because... blah blah"
4 - Read. Think. Comprehend. Then respond. (I know, I know... Cue: "un-fern-like", "ban him", etc)@Kruse said in All Blacks 2023:
Every time. Every... fucking... time.
@Victor-Meldrew states something as simple as "I don't think just replacing the Head Coach of the All Blacks is going to fix everything... a more fundamental look at the entire structure is more likely to be of benefit"
Somebody interprets at as "Defending Foster". Just... how the fuck do we teach comprehension?
1 - There is ZERO fucking defence of Ian Foster in Meldrew's theory.
2 - Meldrew is NOT defending Ian Foster.
3 - Fucking FORGET Foster... nobody cares, not a single fucking bit, about yet another "Ugh... Foster is useless, because... blah blah"
4 - Read. Think. Comprehend. Then respond. (I know, I know... Cue: "un-fern-like", "ban him", etc)WTF! Did you actually read what I posted? Comprehend and all that? You sound like my frustrated 5th-form English teacher (Frustrated for good reason I must admit).
I will put it simply so you can comprehend. I think we need a new direction at the top and that will influence the changes needed in NZ rugby. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Old-Samurai-Jack
Ireland did the opposite.From my limited understanding, I believe Schmitt was hugely influential in administering change at both club level and higher.
The thinking and changes took place well before Schmidt joined. Cheika at Leinster was also hugely influential according to O'Driscoll
I understand your argument and I agree about the systemic problems in NZ rugby, but are you arguing to keep the current AB coach because there are problems elsewhere?
That seems to counter your argument and the part I don't understand.Nothing to do with Foster or whoever is Head Coach (did I even mention him?). I'm talking about the need for some thinking around player development at senior levels and putting some better structure in place.
Part of the changes surely would be to put someone in the AB coaching role with some new innovation to head the needed changes.
Well, we could think about putting put someone close to the coaching staff (maybe call him a National Performance director...) and use him to co-ordinate player development up and down the tree. This might work better than one relying on one bloke (the AB Head Coach) to drive skills, player development and performance across lower levels by proxy or osmosis.
Foster, for all his experience, is not an innovator. Change is not in his DNA.
What has Foster got to do with it?
Cheers. Totally agree except I think having an AB head coach with a different direction will be hugely influential in the changes that are needed. Top-down as well as bottom-up changes are needed. I mention Foster because I think you are stating changing the AB head coach would have little effect. I tend to disagree on that part.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Old-Samurai-Jack
Ireland did the opposite.From my limited understanding, I believe Schmitt was hugely influential in administering change at both club level and higher.
The thinking and changes took place well before Schmidt joined. Cheika at Leinster was also hugely influential according to O'Driscoll
I understand your argument and I agree about the systemic problems in NZ rugby, but are you arguing to keep the current AB coach because there are problems elsewhere?
That seems to counter your argument and the part I don't understand.Nothing to do with Foster or whoever is Head Coach (did I even mention him?). I'm talking about the need for some thinking around player development at senior levels and putting some better structure in place.
Part of the changes surely would be to put someone in the AB coaching role with some new innovation to head the needed changes.
Well, we could think about putting put someone close to the coaching staff (maybe call him a National Performance director...) and use him to co-ordinate player development up and down the tree. This might work better than one relying on one bloke (the AB Head Coach) to drive skills, player development and performance across lower levels by proxy or osmosis.
Foster, for all his experience, is not an innovator. Change is not in his DNA.
What has Foster got to do with it?
Cheers. Totally agree except I think having an AB head coach with a different direction will be hugely influential in the changes that are needed. Top-down as well as bottom-up changes are needed. I mention Foster because I think you are stating changing the AB head coach would have little effect. I tend to disagree on that part.
With all due repect mate, whoever is AB coach should have nothing to do with the changes suggested, good as they are! The AB coach should be just that and all development should be done through a national development team (we actually have something like it already) as when the AB coach is used for in this role, I tend to think whoever he is will develop players in his style? I think what is required is a team of skills coaches both in playing and lifestyle, and go from there.
Just how I see it, and not saying anyone is out of line etc. -
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Old-Samurai-Jack
Ireland did the opposite.From my limited understanding, I believe Schmitt was hugely influential in administering change at both club level and higher.
The thinking and changes took place well before Schmidt joined. Cheika at Leinster was also hugely influential according to O'Driscoll
I understand your argument and I agree about the systemic problems in NZ rugby, but are you arguing to keep the current AB coach because there are problems elsewhere?
That seems to counter your argument and the part I don't understand.Nothing to do with Foster or whoever is Head Coach (did I even mention him?). I'm talking about the need for some thinking around player development at senior levels and putting some better structure in place.
Part of the changes surely would be to put someone in the AB coaching role with some new innovation to head the needed changes.
Well, we could think about putting put someone close to the coaching staff (maybe call him a National Performance director...) and use him to co-ordinate player development up and down the tree. This might work better than one relying on one bloke (the AB Head Coach) to drive skills, player development and performance across lower levels by proxy or osmosis.
Foster, for all his experience, is not an innovator. Change is not in his DNA.
What has Foster got to do with it?
Cheers. Totally agree except I think having an AB head coach with a different direction will be hugely influential in the changes that are needed. Top-down as well as bottom-up changes are needed. I mention Foster because I think you are stating changing the AB head coach would have little effect. I tend to disagree on that part.
With all due repect mate, whoever is AB coach should have nothing to do with the changes suggested, good as they are! The AB coach should be just that and all development should be done through a national development team (we actually have something like it already) as when the AB coach is used for in this role, I tend to think whoever he is will develop players in his style? I think what is required is a team of skills coaches both in playing and lifestyle, and go from there.
Just how I see it, and not saying anyone is out of line etc.@Dan54 Ideally, but there is no doubt the roles Henry, Hansen, Cron et al, played in leading the style of play in NZ rugby (Schmitt in Ireland, Rassie in SA, France). We have people on here saying grassroots teams all play similarly, a lack of variety in how Super rugby teams play, etc. Even the media now saying the same thing. I think the way the AB team goes about it has a huge influence and the lack of innovation at the top has very negative implications on all rugby in NZ.
What both you and Victor say makes complete sense to me but with the added dimension of saying the way the top team plays is hugely influential. -
You would be unlucky to miss the RWC squad if you are currently part of this group .
Who is in danger or missing the cut from this current squad ?
Can only think of Stephenson unfortunately -
You would be unlucky to miss the RWC squad if you are currently part of this group .
Who is in danger or missing the cut from this current squad ?
Can only think of Stephenson unfortunately@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
You would be unlucky to miss the RWC squad if you are currently part of this group .
Who is in danger or missing the cut from this current squad ?
Can only think of Stephenson unfortunatelyThe RWC squad is smaller than this squad isn't it?
33 for RWC vs 36 + Stevenson in this squad?
Still 2 games to go - Clarke is in trouble if Leicester has a big game.
Still a few players who have yet to play too.
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You would be unlucky to miss the RWC squad if you are currently part of this group .
Who is in danger or missing the cut from this current squad ?
Can only think of Stephenson unfortunately@Steven-Harris Assuming everyone is fit, I think this will be a very easy World Cup squad to call, maybe only two or three places still up for grabs, if that.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Halfback, the midfield and, maybe a bit strangely, fullback are the positions that concern me re. depth.
I'm a lot more comfortable about midfield than last year. Reiko now looks like a complete 13 rather than a wing transitioning to centre, Jordie is solid as and we have ALB. Injuries are the curse though.
Plenty of talent at 15, just need to sort out where WJ is best placed, try DMac and work on the combinations/game-plan.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Halfback, the midfield and, maybe a bit strangely, fullback are the positions that concern me re. depth.
I'm a lot more comfortable about midfield than last year. Reiko now looks like a complete 13 rather than a wing transitioning to centre, Jordie is solid as and we have ALB. Injuries are the curse though.
Plenty of talent at 15, just need to sort out where WJ is best placed, try DMac and work on the combinations/game-plan.
I don't think they should shift Will now (and I'm pretty sure it won't happen) - we'd end up with a pretty much untried combo (and rookies) at 11, 14, 15.
I think Beaudy is their 15, but if he gets injured, then in my mind it probably has to be DMac and it feels like a long time since he started a test at fullbck.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Halfback, the midfield and, maybe a bit strangely, fullback are the positions that concern me re. depth.
I'm a lot more comfortable about midfield than last year. Reiko now looks like a complete 13 rather than a wing transitioning to centre, Jordie is solid as and we have ALB. Injuries are the curse though.
Plenty of talent at 15, just need to sort out where WJ is best placed, try DMac and work on the combinations/game-plan.
I don't think they should shift Will now (and I'm pretty sure it won't happen) - we'd end up with a pretty much untried combo (and rookies) at 11, 14, 15.
I think Beaudy is their 15, but if he gets injured, then in my mind it probably has to be DMac and it feels like a long time since he started a test at fullbck.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Halfback, the midfield and, maybe a bit strangely, fullback are the positions that concern me re. depth.
I'm a lot more comfortable about midfield than last year. Reiko now looks like a complete 13 rather than a wing transitioning to centre, Jordie is solid as and we have ALB. Injuries are the curse though.
Plenty of talent at 15, just need to sort out where WJ is best placed, try DMac and work on the combinations/game-plan.
I don't think they should shift Will now (and I'm pretty sure it won't happen) - we'd end up with a pretty much untried combo (and rookies) at 11, 14, 15.
I think Beaudy is their 15, but if he gets injured, then in my mind it probably has to be DMac and it feels like a long time since he started a test at fullbck.
If they don't try Will J at 15, how can we be ready if BB goes down? We know what BB brings to the table, how about playing him at 15 against the Aussies next?
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You would be unlucky to miss the RWC squad if you are currently part of this group .
Who is in danger or missing the cut from this current squad ?
Can only think of Stephenson unfortunately@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
You would be unlucky to miss the RWC squad if you are currently part of this group .
Who is in danger or missing the cut from this current squad ?
Can only think of Stephenson unfortunatelyJason Ryan was on the Breakdown just before and said they've had Joe Moody and David Havili in camp with them last week. Kirsty Stanaway added Ethan Blackadder's name to that mix, but I don't think Ryan name checked him. Assuming he is, that would be 40 names - seven to be cut.
Stevenson probably unlikely, as you say.
I reckon Havili will go and Ennor and McLeod won't.
A lock won't - probably Josh Lord.
A loosehead prop. At least one wing. One loose forward if Blackadder is actually in that mix.
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
You would be unlucky to miss the RWC squad if you are currently part of this group .
Who is in danger or missing the cut from this current squad ?
Can only think of Stephenson unfortunatelyJason Ryan was on the Breakdown just before and said they've had Joe Moody and David Havili in camp with them last week. Kirsty Stanaway added Ethan Blackadder's name to that mix, but I don't think Ryan name checked him. Assuming he is, that would be 40 names - seven to be cut.
Stevenson probably unlikely, as you say.
I reckon Havili will go and Ennor and McLeod won't.
A lock won't - probably Josh Lord.
A loosehead prop. At least one wing. One loose forward if Blackadder is actually in that mix.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
A lock won't - probably Josh Lord.
Been a fanboi, or at least hopeful about, Tupou Vaa'i but Lord is better. Way better.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Halfback, the midfield and, maybe a bit strangely, fullback are the positions that concern me re. depth.
I'm a lot more comfortable about midfield than last year. Reiko now looks like a complete 13 rather than a wing transitioning to centre, Jordie is solid as and we have ALB. Injuries are the curse though.
Plenty of talent at 15, just need to sort out where WJ is best placed, try DMac and work on the combinations/game-plan.
I don't think they should shift Will now (and I'm pretty sure it won't happen) - we'd end up with a pretty much untried combo (and rookies) at 11, 14, 15.
I think Beaudy is their 15, but if he gets injured, then in my mind it probably has to be DMac and it feels like a long time since he started a test at fullbck.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
I think Beaudy is their 15, but if he gets injured, then in my mind it probably has to be DMac and it feels like a long time since he started a test at fullbck.
If Beaudy gets his decision-making radar improved, I'd be happy as you get the feeling he could do something dumb at any time... Thought DMac was great at 15 when he last played there but he's focussed on 10 in the recent past.
Be interesting to see what the Melbourne teamsheet looks like.
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BBBR said Lord was the tallest lock at the chiefs, I was thinking, isn't BBBR himself about 2.05m?!? Edit: 2.04. Ok, but that is tall.
It would be interesting to see if / why they would prefer Va'ai, has not seemed to kick on as far as I can tell.
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World Cup squads of 33 apparently this time.
This is my guess as where we are at. Please let me know if I’ve missed anyone.
Props: (6) Ethan De Groot, Ofa T, Tyrell Lomax, Nepo Laulala, 2 of Joe Moody, Fletcher Newell or Tamaiti Williams.
I think Joe Moody and Fletcher Newell will be picked if fit.
Hookers: (3) Codie Taylor, Dane Coles, Samisoni T.
Big gap to the next Hooker which is probably Aumua.
Locks (4) Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Scott Barrett. One of Josh Lord, Tipou Vaa’i or Patrick Tuipolutu.
I think Josh Lord will make it. I don’t think it’s impossible that they will find room for a 5th lock.
Back row (6) Sam Cane, Ardie Savea, Shannon Frizell, Dalton Papali’i, 2 of Ethan Blackadder, Luke Jacobson, Cullen Grace or Finau.
Finau will get a chance in one of the Bledisloe Tests but I think Ethan Blackadder and Luke Jacobson are most likely to be picked.
Half Backs (3) Aaron Smith, Christie. One of Brad Weber, Cam Roigard, TJP or Fakatava.
I think Brad Weber will get the nod for leadership.
First Fives (3) Mo’unga, McKenzie, Beauden Barrett.
Perofeta as backup. DMac and BB will get game time in the Back Three.
Midfield (4) Jordie Barrett, Reiko Ioane, Anton Leinert-Brown. David Havili or Brendon Ennor or Dallas McLeod or Jack Goodhue or Billy Proctor.
I’d go with Billy Proctor but I think they will go with Havili if he’s fit or Ennor if he’s not.
Back Three (4) Will Jordan, Mark Telea, Caleb Clarke. Either Leicester F or Emoni Narawa.
I think this one is up for grabs. Caleb Clarke might need to do a bit more to be 100% certain of being on the plane to France. Shaun Stevenson probably not entirely out of the running either.
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watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.
Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.
I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.
Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.
I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?
The above is a brilliant post and remains my biggest fear for the ABs in World Cup year. Getting reamed at the breakdown in a big game.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.
Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.
I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?
The above is a brilliant post and remains my biggest fear for the ABs in World Cup year. Getting reamed at the breakdown in a big game.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.
Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.
I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?
The above is a brilliant post and remains my biggest fear for the ABs in World Cup year. Getting reamed at the breakdown in a big game.
Ardie played that disrupting role versus the boks, he was an utter pest. And almost got his head ripped off on several occasions for it. He wasn't his normal energiser bunny role, if you do a watch you'll see he made a big difference to how slow their ball was
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.
Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.
I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?
The above is a brilliant post and remains my biggest fear for the ABs in World Cup year. Getting reamed at the breakdown in a big game.
@sparky Had one in Boshier, he got nothing from the selectors and left. There's a danger in selectors deciding the ABs are going to play one way and that's it for those who don't fit that style.
Also a weird contrast vs how they e.g. pick Christie on the bench for Smith, which changes the whole way the team can play - but they don't seem to think that's a big deal.
