All Blacks 2023
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You would be unlucky to miss the RWC squad if you are currently part of this group .
Who is in danger or missing the cut from this current squad ?
Can only think of Stephenson unfortunately@Steven-Harris Assuming everyone is fit, I think this will be a very easy World Cup squad to call, maybe only two or three places still up for grabs, if that.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Halfback, the midfield and, maybe a bit strangely, fullback are the positions that concern me re. depth.
I'm a lot more comfortable about midfield than last year. Reiko now looks like a complete 13 rather than a wing transitioning to centre, Jordie is solid as and we have ALB. Injuries are the curse though.
Plenty of talent at 15, just need to sort out where WJ is best placed, try DMac and work on the combinations/game-plan.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Halfback, the midfield and, maybe a bit strangely, fullback are the positions that concern me re. depth.
I'm a lot more comfortable about midfield than last year. Reiko now looks like a complete 13 rather than a wing transitioning to centre, Jordie is solid as and we have ALB. Injuries are the curse though.
Plenty of talent at 15, just need to sort out where WJ is best placed, try DMac and work on the combinations/game-plan.
I don't think they should shift Will now (and I'm pretty sure it won't happen) - we'd end up with a pretty much untried combo (and rookies) at 11, 14, 15.
I think Beaudy is their 15, but if he gets injured, then in my mind it probably has to be DMac and it feels like a long time since he started a test at fullbck.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Halfback, the midfield and, maybe a bit strangely, fullback are the positions that concern me re. depth.
I'm a lot more comfortable about midfield than last year. Reiko now looks like a complete 13 rather than a wing transitioning to centre, Jordie is solid as and we have ALB. Injuries are the curse though.
Plenty of talent at 15, just need to sort out where WJ is best placed, try DMac and work on the combinations/game-plan.
I don't think they should shift Will now (and I'm pretty sure it won't happen) - we'd end up with a pretty much untried combo (and rookies) at 11, 14, 15.
I think Beaudy is their 15, but if he gets injured, then in my mind it probably has to be DMac and it feels like a long time since he started a test at fullbck.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Halfback, the midfield and, maybe a bit strangely, fullback are the positions that concern me re. depth.
I'm a lot more comfortable about midfield than last year. Reiko now looks like a complete 13 rather than a wing transitioning to centre, Jordie is solid as and we have ALB. Injuries are the curse though.
Plenty of talent at 15, just need to sort out where WJ is best placed, try DMac and work on the combinations/game-plan.
I don't think they should shift Will now (and I'm pretty sure it won't happen) - we'd end up with a pretty much untried combo (and rookies) at 11, 14, 15.
I think Beaudy is their 15, but if he gets injured, then in my mind it probably has to be DMac and it feels like a long time since he started a test at fullbck.
If they don't try Will J at 15, how can we be ready if BB goes down? We know what BB brings to the table, how about playing him at 15 against the Aussies next?
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You would be unlucky to miss the RWC squad if you are currently part of this group .
Who is in danger or missing the cut from this current squad ?
Can only think of Stephenson unfortunately@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
You would be unlucky to miss the RWC squad if you are currently part of this group .
Who is in danger or missing the cut from this current squad ?
Can only think of Stephenson unfortunatelyJason Ryan was on the Breakdown just before and said they've had Joe Moody and David Havili in camp with them last week. Kirsty Stanaway added Ethan Blackadder's name to that mix, but I don't think Ryan name checked him. Assuming he is, that would be 40 names - seven to be cut.
Stevenson probably unlikely, as you say.
I reckon Havili will go and Ennor and McLeod won't.
A lock won't - probably Josh Lord.
A loosehead prop. At least one wing. One loose forward if Blackadder is actually in that mix.
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
You would be unlucky to miss the RWC squad if you are currently part of this group .
Who is in danger or missing the cut from this current squad ?
Can only think of Stephenson unfortunatelyJason Ryan was on the Breakdown just before and said they've had Joe Moody and David Havili in camp with them last week. Kirsty Stanaway added Ethan Blackadder's name to that mix, but I don't think Ryan name checked him. Assuming he is, that would be 40 names - seven to be cut.
Stevenson probably unlikely, as you say.
I reckon Havili will go and Ennor and McLeod won't.
A lock won't - probably Josh Lord.
A loosehead prop. At least one wing. One loose forward if Blackadder is actually in that mix.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
A lock won't - probably Josh Lord.
Been a fanboi, or at least hopeful about, Tupou Vaa'i but Lord is better. Way better.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Halfback, the midfield and, maybe a bit strangely, fullback are the positions that concern me re. depth.
I'm a lot more comfortable about midfield than last year. Reiko now looks like a complete 13 rather than a wing transitioning to centre, Jordie is solid as and we have ALB. Injuries are the curse though.
Plenty of talent at 15, just need to sort out where WJ is best placed, try DMac and work on the combinations/game-plan.
I don't think they should shift Will now (and I'm pretty sure it won't happen) - we'd end up with a pretty much untried combo (and rookies) at 11, 14, 15.
I think Beaudy is their 15, but if he gets injured, then in my mind it probably has to be DMac and it feels like a long time since he started a test at fullbck.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
I think Beaudy is their 15, but if he gets injured, then in my mind it probably has to be DMac and it feels like a long time since he started a test at fullbck.
If Beaudy gets his decision-making radar improved, I'd be happy as you get the feeling he could do something dumb at any time... Thought DMac was great at 15 when he last played there but he's focussed on 10 in the recent past.
Be interesting to see what the Melbourne teamsheet looks like.
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BBBR said Lord was the tallest lock at the chiefs, I was thinking, isn't BBBR himself about 2.05m?!? Edit: 2.04. Ok, but that is tall.
It would be interesting to see if / why they would prefer Va'ai, has not seemed to kick on as far as I can tell.
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World Cup squads of 33 apparently this time.
This is my guess as where we are at. Please let me know if I’ve missed anyone.
Props: (6) Ethan De Groot, Ofa T, Tyrell Lomax, Nepo Laulala, 2 of Joe Moody, Fletcher Newell or Tamaiti Williams.
I think Joe Moody and Fletcher Newell will be picked if fit.
Hookers: (3) Codie Taylor, Dane Coles, Samisoni T.
Big gap to the next Hooker which is probably Aumua.
Locks (4) Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Scott Barrett. One of Josh Lord, Tipou Vaa’i or Patrick Tuipolutu.
I think Josh Lord will make it. I don’t think it’s impossible that they will find room for a 5th lock.
Back row (6) Sam Cane, Ardie Savea, Shannon Frizell, Dalton Papali’i, 2 of Ethan Blackadder, Luke Jacobson, Cullen Grace or Finau.
Finau will get a chance in one of the Bledisloe Tests but I think Ethan Blackadder and Luke Jacobson are most likely to be picked.
Half Backs (3) Aaron Smith, Christie. One of Brad Weber, Cam Roigard, TJP or Fakatava.
I think Brad Weber will get the nod for leadership.
First Fives (3) Mo’unga, McKenzie, Beauden Barrett.
Perofeta as backup. DMac and BB will get game time in the Back Three.
Midfield (4) Jordie Barrett, Reiko Ioane, Anton Leinert-Brown. David Havili or Brendon Ennor or Dallas McLeod or Jack Goodhue or Billy Proctor.
I’d go with Billy Proctor but I think they will go with Havili if he’s fit or Ennor if he’s not.
Back Three (4) Will Jordan, Mark Telea, Caleb Clarke. Either Leicester F or Emoni Narawa.
I think this one is up for grabs. Caleb Clarke might need to do a bit more to be 100% certain of being on the plane to France. Shaun Stevenson probably not entirely out of the running either.
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watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.
Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.
I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.
Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.
I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?
The above is a brilliant post and remains my biggest fear for the ABs in World Cup year. Getting reamed at the breakdown in a big game.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.
Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.
I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?
The above is a brilliant post and remains my biggest fear for the ABs in World Cup year. Getting reamed at the breakdown in a big game.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.
Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.
I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?
The above is a brilliant post and remains my biggest fear for the ABs in World Cup year. Getting reamed at the breakdown in a big game.
Ardie played that disrupting role versus the boks, he was an utter pest. And almost got his head ripped off on several occasions for it. He wasn't his normal energiser bunny role, if you do a watch you'll see he made a big difference to how slow their ball was
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.
Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.
I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?
The above is a brilliant post and remains my biggest fear for the ABs in World Cup year. Getting reamed at the breakdown in a big game.
@sparky Had one in Boshier, he got nothing from the selectors and left. There's a danger in selectors deciding the ABs are going to play one way and that's it for those who don't fit that style.
Also a weird contrast vs how they e.g. pick Christie on the bench for Smith, which changes the whole way the team can play - but they don't seem to think that's a big deal. -
@sparky Had one in Boshier, he got nothing from the selectors and left. There's a danger in selectors deciding the ABs are going to play one way and that's it for those who don't fit that style.
Also a weird contrast vs how they e.g. pick Christie on the bench for Smith, which changes the whole way the team can play - but they don't seem to think that's a big deal.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2023:
There's a danger in selectors deciding the ABs are going to play one way and that's it for those who don't fit that style.
You mean, selectors picking players to suit their team, plan and style? I'd be interested in countries that don't have this issue.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2023:
There's a danger in selectors deciding the ABs are going to play one way and that's it for those who don't fit that style.
You mean, selectors picking players to suit their team, plan and style? I'd be interested in countries that don't have this issue.
@Bones Yeah that's fair - they need to pick players to play the style they want, but it ought to be open to some questioning when that style looks a bit shit, and keeping the options open for a horses for courses approach if possible when you have one guy in the country who is clearly head and shoulders above anyone else in a specific role isn't a bad idea.
Also begs the question about what appears to be completely different thinking on the Smith/Christie combination though. Those two guys play a completely different game, and how they play has a major impact on how the whole team plays. If they are saying 'our 7 must play this style', then why not say 'our 9 must play this style' when it has more bearing on the team as a whole? -
Starting TO wonder about the halfback conundrum... is it possible that Foster potentially saw TJ as his number three, and wanted the contingency option of Weber or Fakatava? Perhaps they wanted to have a proper look at both of them, hence sent them to NZ XV as opposed to having them run waters. Personally think we'd be insane to take Roigard to the World Cup in a position like halfback off the back of MAX two bench appearances (by the time the squad is named) and one good season of Super Rugby.
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Starting TO wonder about the halfback conundrum... is it possible that Foster potentially saw TJ as his number three, and wanted the contingency option of Weber or Fakatava? Perhaps they wanted to have a proper look at both of them, hence sent them to NZ XV as opposed to having them run waters. Personally think we'd be insane to take Roigard to the World Cup in a position like halfback off the back of MAX two bench appearances (by the time the squad is named) and one good season of Super Rugby.
@frugby not sure your logic stacks up re Weber & Fakatava when you consider they took Stevenson & Roigard to hold tackle bags.
I think they learn different things from having them train in the main squad vs playing in a tier or 2 down, and doubt they learnt much from Weber & FF that they didnt already know.
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Starting TO wonder about the halfback conundrum... is it possible that Foster potentially saw TJ as his number three, and wanted the contingency option of Weber or Fakatava? Perhaps they wanted to have a proper look at both of them, hence sent them to NZ XV as opposed to having them run waters. Personally think we'd be insane to take Roigard to the World Cup in a position like halfback off the back of MAX two bench appearances (by the time the squad is named) and one good season of Super Rugby.
@frugby wait so you think it's insane to take Roigard, and then you suggest one of the contingency options is Fakatava... hmmm. Roigard has the accuracy you want in a halfback at a WC, Fakatava is way too unpredictable at this stage of his career.
