All Blacks 2023
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@Kiwiwomble Why would you feel embarrassed by something that didn't happen (head contact)?
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble Why would you feel embarressed by something that didn't happen (head contact)?
because no matter how some try to sugar coat this
he dived pointed shoulder first at a player on the ground away from teh ball (it was in no way a "clean out") and it was good luck not good management that meant he missed the head. He still hit the base of the neck which is still dangerous and shitty.
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@Kiwiwomble Why would you feel embarrassed by something that didn't happen (head contact)?
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble Why would you feel embarressed by something that didn't happen (head contact)?
im a bit embarrassed he avoided any further punishment for the stuff he did even without head contact (dove off his feet, shoulder first at a player prone on the ground and not on the ball)
BUT, the footage ive seen looks like like the contact moves from the shoulder to the head
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble Why would you feel embarressed by something that didn't happen (head contact)?
im a bit embarrassed he avoided any further punishment for the stuff he did even without head contact (dove off his feet, shoulder first at a player prone on the ground and not on the ball)
BUT, the footage ive seen looks like like the contact moves from the shoulder to the head
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble Why would you feel embarressed by something that didn't happen (head contact)?
im a bit embarrassed he avoided any further punishment for the stuff he did even without head contact (dove off his feet, shoulder first at a player prone on the ground and not on the ball)
BUT, the footage ive seen looks like like the contact moves from the shoulder to the head
You haven't seen all the footage available to the judiciary. There was no direct contact with the head according to the available footage (so no reason for a red card). Why would you want to suspend someone for a yellow card offence? And why would you feel embarrassed by someone being correctly not suspended for a yellow card offence? He was already punished by being sent off and they found that sufficient. This is consistent with similar rulings.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
he dived pointed shoulder first at a player on the ground away from teh ball (it was in no way a "clean out") and it was good luck not good management that meant he missed the head. He still hit the base of the neck which is still dangerous and shitty.
So you want to suspend someone because he had good luck (resulting in him missing the head) or in him potentially (not: certainly) hitting the head if he hadn't had that good luck? So for something hypothetical?
He was yellow carded. He got a red because he already had had a team yellow earlier. He was sent off. I don't see why he deserved further punishment for something that wasn't a red-card offence (either by intent, luck or otherwise).
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble Why would you feel embarressed by something that didn't happen (head contact)?
im a bit embarrassed he avoided any further punishment for the stuff he did even without head contact (dove off his feet, shoulder first at a player prone on the ground and not on the ball)
BUT, the footage ive seen looks like like the contact moves from the shoulder to the head
You haven't seen all the footage available to the judiciary. There was no direct contact with the head according to the available footage (so no reason for a red card). Why would you want to suspend someone for a yellow card offence? And why would you feel embarrassed by someone being correctly not suspended for a yellow card offence? He was already punished by being sent off and they found that sufficient. This is consistent with similar rulings.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
he dived pointed shoulder first at a player on the ground away from teh ball (it was in no way a "clean out") and it was good luck not good management that meant he missed the head. He still hit the base of the neck which is still dangerous and shitty.
So you want to suspend someone because he had good luck (resulting in him missing the head) or in him potentially (not: certainly) hitting the head if he hadn't had that good luck? So for something hypothetical?
He was yellow carded. He got a red because he already had had a team yellow earlier. He was sent off. I don't see why he deserved further punishment for something that wasn't a red-card offence (either by intent, luck or otherwise).
@Stargazer cant go back and forward if you not going to even pretend to understand what people are saying, you're happy...great
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@Stargazer cant go back and forward if you not going to even pretend to understand what people are saying, you're happy...great
@Kiwiwomble No, I fully understand what you're saying, but it just doesn't make sense to me that you want someone punished for something that is never punished with a suspension: a yellow card offence. It's the Law and the normal judicial process that has been followed.
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@Kiwiwomble No, I fully understand what you're saying, but it just doesn't make sense to me that you want someone punished for something that is never punished with a suspension: a yellow card offence. It's the Law and the normal judicial process that has been followed.
@Stargazer you've just proven you dont understand what we're saying, saying you do doesn't seem to make it so
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@Stargazer you've just proven you dont understand what we're saying, saying you do doesn't seem to make it so
@Kiwiwomble Maybe you should be clearer in saying what you mean then.
Are you arguing he deserved a red card?
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i never said i want him punished. i am embarrassed an AB player pulled a dogshit act like that and people want to defend him because he got extremely lucky. It was a shit act, and if it has been Green on Black i just know a bunch of people here would be calling for crucifiction
But hey, go right ahead and keep pointing at the rule book if you like, and as usual, completely missing the point of a discussion board
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Well thankfully Barrett did not get extra punishment that would not have been merited.
Imagine going in to the French game starting Vaii and having Who ? covering Lock on the bench,
A Prop or maybe one of the 5 wingers we have,as we only have 3 fit locks with Barrett and 4 fit LF's.
Another reason the Selection of this Squad was and is very flawed. -
i never said i want him punished. i am embarrassed an AB player pulled a dogshit act like that and people want to defend him because he got extremely lucky. It was a shit act, and if it has been Green on Black i just know a bunch of people here would be calling for crucifiction
But hey, go right ahead and keep pointing at the rule book if you like, and as usual, completely missing the point of a discussion board
@mariner4life I'm not defending his act at all. I'm just saying the judicial decision is correct and I don't see any reason for being embarrassed by the correct judicial decision being taken.
He should be embarrassed for committing the act and he should improve and so should countless of other professional players who have or have not been yellow carded for it. This has been blown out of proportion, because it ended up in a red because of that first yellow card. If he hadn't had the first yellow card and hence the red, we wouldn't even be talking about this anymore.
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@mariner4life I'm not defending his act at all. I'm just saying the judicial decision is correct and I don't see any reason for being embarrassed by the correct judicial decision being taken.
He should be embarrassed for committing the act and he should improve and so should countless of other professional players who have or have not been yellow carded for it. This has been blown out of proportion, because it ended up in a red because of that first yellow card. If he hadn't had the first yellow card and hence the red, we wouldn't even be talking about this anymore.
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
we wouldn't even be talking about this anymore.
you might not, for obvious reasons
but many of us would be looking at yet ANOTHER Scott Barrett card for foul play and wondering if a player really is capable of change.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
Current rankings - assuming Oz don't beat France & not including minnows
Pool A (who play Pool B in QFs of Death!)
NZ 4th
France 3rd
Italy 13thPool B Pool of Death for good teams
SA 2nd
Ireland 1st
Scotland 5th
Tonga 15thPool C Real Pool of Death
Wales 10th
Aus 9th
Fiji 7th
Georgia 11thPool D
England 8th
Japan 14th
Argentina 6th
Samoa 12thSo it may be shit for teams ranked 1-5 that one can't make quarters and 3 can't make the semi. But they have ended up very tight pools, outside the real minnows
Pool of Death seems to me to me a slight misuse of the term when the highest ranked team in the pool is Fiji at 7...if you can't make it out of that pool, one might question your right to be in a QF...
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
Current rankings - assuming Oz don't beat France & not including minnows
Pool A (who play Pool B in QFs of Death!)
NZ 4th
France 3rd
Italy 13thPool B Pool of Death for good teams
SA 2nd
Ireland 1st
Scotland 5th
Tonga 15thPool C Real Pool of Death
Wales 10th
Aus 9th
Fiji 7th
Georgia 11thPool D
England 8th
Japan 14th
Argentina 6th
Samoa 12thSo it may be shit for teams ranked 1-5 that one can't make quarters and 3 can't make the semi. But they have ended up very tight pools, outside the real minnows
Pool of Death seems to me to me a slight misuse of the term when the highest ranked team in the pool is Fiji at 7...if you can't make it out of that pool, one might question your right to be in a QF...
Pool of flesh wound?
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
Current rankings - assuming Oz don't beat France & not including minnows
Pool A (who play Pool B in QFs of Death!)
NZ 4th
France 3rd
Italy 13thPool B Pool of Death for good teams
SA 2nd
Ireland 1st
Scotland 5th
Tonga 15thPool C Real Pool of Death
Wales 10th
Aus 9th
Fiji 7th
Georgia 11thPool D
England 8th
Japan 14th
Argentina 6th
Samoa 12thSo it may be shit for teams ranked 1-5 that one can't make quarters and 3 can't make the semi. But they have ended up very tight pools, outside the real minnows
Pool of Death seems to me to me a slight misuse of the term when the highest ranked team in the pool is Fiji at 7...if you can't make it out of that pool, one might question your right to be in a QF...
Pool of flesh wound?
@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
Current rankings - assuming Oz don't beat France & not including minnows
Pool A (who play Pool B in QFs of Death!)
NZ 4th
France 3rd
Italy 13thPool B Pool of Death for good teams
SA 2nd
Ireland 1st
Scotland 5th
Tonga 15thPool C Real Pool of Death
Wales 10th
Aus 9th
Fiji 7th
Georgia 11thPool D
England 8th
Japan 14th
Argentina 6th
Samoa 12thSo it may be shit for teams ranked 1-5 that one can't make quarters and 3 can't make the semi. But they have ended up very tight pools, outside the real minnows
Pool of Death seems to me to me a slight misuse of the term when the highest ranked team in the pool is Fiji at 7...if you can't make it out of that pool, one might question your right to be in a QF...
Pool of flesh wound?
I was thinking something more along the lines of:
"Pool of Plankton" or
"Massacre of the Minnows" ? -
@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
Current rankings - assuming Oz don't beat France & not including minnows
Pool A (who play Pool B in QFs of Death!)
NZ 4th
France 3rd
Italy 13thPool B Pool of Death for good teams
SA 2nd
Ireland 1st
Scotland 5th
Tonga 15thPool C Real Pool of Death
Wales 10th
Aus 9th
Fiji 7th
Georgia 11thPool D
England 8th
Japan 14th
Argentina 6th
Samoa 12thSo it may be shit for teams ranked 1-5 that one can't make quarters and 3 can't make the semi. But they have ended up very tight pools, outside the real minnows
Pool of Death seems to me to me a slight misuse of the term when the highest ranked team in the pool is Fiji at 7...if you can't make it out of that pool, one might question your right to be in a QF...
Pool of flesh wound?
I was thinking something more along the lines of:
"Pool of Plankton" or
"Massacre of the Minnows" ?@voodoo said in All Blacks 2023:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
Current rankings - assuming Oz don't beat France & not including minnows
Pool A (who play Pool B in QFs of Death!)
NZ 4th
France 3rd
Italy 13thPool B Pool of Death for good teams
SA 2nd
Ireland 1st
Scotland 5th
Tonga 15thPool C Real Pool of Death
Wales 10th
Aus 9th
Fiji 7th
Georgia 11thPool D
England 8th
Japan 14th
Argentina 6th
Samoa 12thSo it may be shit for teams ranked 1-5 that one can't make quarters and 3 can't make the semi. But they have ended up very tight pools, outside the real minnows
Pool of Death seems to me to me a slight misuse of the term when the highest ranked team in the pool is Fiji at 7...if you can't make it out of that pool, one might question your right to be in a QF...
Pool of flesh wound?
I was thinking something more along the lines of:
"Pool of Plankton" or
"Massacre of the Minnows" ?You have a beautiful way with words for someone from Palmy
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I think i this is very relevant
(Ireland) in their last 23 Tests, stretching back to June 2021, they have picked up just two yellow cards.
France, who throughout 2021 and 2022 were vying with Ireland for that top spot, were almost as well disciplined, being shown one yellow and one red over that period.
(ABs) Between 2020 and 2022 they played 35 Tests and were shown 16 yellows and three reds
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/new-zealand-have-a-deeply-ingrained-knack-of-losing-their-discipline/
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I think i this is very relevant
(Ireland) in their last 23 Tests, stretching back to June 2021, they have picked up just two yellow cards.
France, who throughout 2021 and 2022 were vying with Ireland for that top spot, were almost as well disciplined, being shown one yellow and one red over that period.
(ABs) Between 2020 and 2022 they played 35 Tests and were shown 16 yellows and three reds
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/new-zealand-have-a-deeply-ingrained-knack-of-losing-their-discipline/
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
I think i this is very relevant
(Ireland) in their last 23 Tests, stretching back to June 2021, they have picked up just two yellow cards.
France, who throughout 2021 and 2022 were vying with Ireland for that top spot, were almost as well disciplined, being shown one yellow and one red over that period.
(ABs) Between 2020 and 2022 they played 35 Tests and were shown 16 yellows and three reds
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/new-zealand-have-a-deeply-ingrained-knack-of-losing-their-discipline/
Excellent article
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I think i this is very relevant
(Ireland) in their last 23 Tests, stretching back to June 2021, they have picked up just two yellow cards.
France, who throughout 2021 and 2022 were vying with Ireland for that top spot, were almost as well disciplined, being shown one yellow and one red over that period.
(ABs) Between 2020 and 2022 they played 35 Tests and were shown 16 yellows and three reds
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/new-zealand-have-a-deeply-ingrained-knack-of-losing-their-discipline/
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
I think i this is very relevant
(Ireland) in their last 23 Tests, stretching back to June 2021, they have picked up just two yellow cards.
France, who throughout 2021 and 2022 were vying with Ireland for that top spot, were almost as well disciplined, being shown one yellow and one red over that period.
(ABs) Between 2020 and 2022 they played 35 Tests and were shown 16 yellows and three reds
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/new-zealand-have-a-deeply-ingrained-knack-of-losing-their-discipline/
im not a huge fan of not comparing equal numbers....why look at just 21/22 for France and Ireland but 2020 - 2022 for the AB's....but i think the point probably stands
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@voodoo Top four teams in that pool are all ranked very closely, that's probably not a good pool of death. But it will be hard to call
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@voodoo Top four teams in that pool are all ranked very closely, that's probably not a good pool of death. But it will be hard to call
Pool of Lost Time Injury?
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@Kiwiwomble Why would you feel embarrassed by something that didn't happen (head contact)?
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble Why would you feel embarrassed by something that didn't happen (head contact)?
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble Why would you feel embarressed by something that didn't happen (head contact)?
because no matter how some try to sugar coat this
he dived pointed shoulder first at a player on the ground away from teh ball (it was in no way a "clean out") and it was good luck not good management that meant he missed the head. He still hit the base of the neck which is still dangerous and shitty.
These two points are not incompatible.
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I think i this is very relevant
(Ireland) in their last 23 Tests, stretching back to June 2021, they have picked up just two yellow cards.
France, who throughout 2021 and 2022 were vying with Ireland for that top spot, were almost as well disciplined, being shown one yellow and one red over that period.
(ABs) Between 2020 and 2022 they played 35 Tests and were shown 16 yellows and three reds
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/new-zealand-have-a-deeply-ingrained-knack-of-losing-their-discipline/
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
I think i this is very relevant
(Ireland) in their last 23 Tests, stretching back to June 2021, they have picked up just two yellow cards.
France, who throughout 2021 and 2022 were vying with Ireland for that top spot, were almost as well disciplined, being shown one yellow and one red over that period.
(ABs) Between 2020 and 2022 they played 35 Tests and were shown 16 yellows and three reds
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/new-zealand-have-a-deeply-ingrained-knack-of-losing-their-discipline/
Two words; absorbing tackle.
Lies, damned lies and statistics.
