All Blacks 2024
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Winger Disagree completely.
I'd have no problem with Ardie, but for different reasons.
All Blacks get eyeballs because they win. Having a captain that cna influence refs is their core role. The rest is fluff. Leadership can come from VC or seniors in the squad. Diversity and entertainment are secondary to the core role.
If I were Razor, I'd be asking- for locked in starters:
- Who can influence refs at the top level the best (or learn to, like McCaw)
- Are any of them credible 4 year captains?
then I'd be looking at media skills, diversity, entertainment, etc.
Very few get past step 1. How many 4 year candidates are there? I suspect SBar, Rieko, Jordie and then you're scratching around.
Papali'i, Taukei'aho, De Groot and Lomax are probably the others you'd bank on being there in 2023. Papali'i is a pretty feasible option in my mind.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Papali'i is a pretty feasible option in my mind.
He's not even rated no1 for the Blues.
WE really haven't got an obvious candidate at present. I would go for Ardie as a Umaga type appointment. Not a long-term appointment but the best there is now. Definitely not Scott. Some might underestimate the importance of the other factors. In this day and age rugby in this country can continue its decline. Or start doing something a bit different to try and grab back a (much) bigger audience.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Winger Disagree completely.
I'd have no problem with Ardie, but for different reasons.
All Blacks get eyeballs because they win. Having a captain that cna influence refs is their core role. The rest is fluff. Leadership can come from VC or seniors in the squad. Diversity and entertainment are secondary to the core role.
If I were Razor, I'd be asking- for locked in starters:
- Who can influence refs at the top level the best (or learn to, like McCaw)
- Are any of them credible 4 year captains?
then I'd be looking at media skills, diversity, entertainment, etc.
Very few get past step 1. How many 4 year candidates are there? I suspect SBar, Rieko, Jordie and then you're scratching around.
Papali'i, Taukei'aho, De Groot and Lomax are probably the others you'd bank on being there in 2023. Papali'i is a pretty feasible option in my mind.
Dalton - only if Razor rates his game.
Sami - dropped off a cliff, and hookers are often replaced
Props aren't great captaincy choices and again often get replaced.@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Dalton - only if Razor rates his game.
think it was 2022 when Dalton looked for all money future AB captain, his leadership in the blues was evident, more so when he wasnt there.
But the argument is less strong now, although I expect he would certainly grow into it.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Dalton - only if Razor rates his game.
think it was 2022 when Dalton looked for all money future AB captain, his leadership in the blues was evident, more so when he wasnt there.
But the argument is less strong now, although I expect he would certainly grow into it.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
But the argument is less strong now, although I expect he would certainly grow into it.
unless they picked Patty to free Dalton up for the ABs.
CONSPIRACY THEORY TIME! RAZOR IS SECRETLY AN AUCKLANDER TRANSPLANTED TO THE BAY. BELIEVE EVERYTHING I WRITE IT'S IN CAPS AND I RESEARCHED IT ON FACEBOOK.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Papali'i is a pretty feasible option in my mind.
He's not even rated no1 for the Blues.
WE really haven't got an obvious candidate at present. I would go for Ardie as a Umaga type appointment. Not a long-term appointment but the best there is now. Definitely not Scott. Some might underestimate the importance of the other factors. In this day and age rugby in this country can continue its decline. Or start doing something a bit different to try and grab back a (much) bigger audience.
@Winger said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Papali'i is a pretty feasible option in my mind.
He's not even rated no1 for the Blues.
Wasn’t an issue for Fitzpatrick, if my memory serves me right. Wasn’t Zinzan the Auckland captain when Fitzy was AB captain?
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Winger Disagree completely.
I'd have no problem with Ardie, but for different reasons.
All Blacks get eyeballs because they win. Having a captain that cna influence refs is their core role. The rest is fluff. Leadership can come from VC or seniors in the squad. Diversity and entertainment are secondary to the core role.
If I were Razor, I'd be asking- for locked in starters:
- Who can influence refs at the top level the best (or learn to, like McCaw)
- Are any of them credible 4 year captains?
then I'd be looking at media skills, diversity, entertainment, etc.
Very few get past step 1. How many 4 year candidates are there? I suspect SBar, Rieko, Jordie and then you're scratching around.
Papali'i, Taukei'aho, De Groot and Lomax are probably the others you'd bank on being there in 2023. Papali'i is a pretty feasible option in my mind.
Dalton - only if Razor rates his game.
Sami - dropped off a cliff, and hookers are often replaced
Props aren't great captaincy choices and again often get replaced.@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Winger Disagree completely.
I'd have no problem with Ardie, but for different reasons.
All Blacks get eyeballs because they win. Having a captain that cna influence refs is their core role. The rest is fluff. Leadership can come from VC or seniors in the squad. Diversity and entertainment are secondary to the core role.
If I were Razor, I'd be asking- for locked in starters:
- Who can influence refs at the top level the best (or learn to, like McCaw)
- Are any of them credible 4 year captains?
then I'd be looking at media skills, diversity, entertainment, etc.
Very few get past step 1. How many 4 year candidates are there? I suspect SBar, Rieko, Jordie and then you're scratching around.
Papali'i, Taukei'aho, De Groot and Lomax are probably the others you'd bank on being there in 2023. Papali'i is a pretty feasible option in my mind.
Dalton - only if Razor rates his game.
Sami - dropped off a cliff, and hookers are often replaced
Props aren't great captaincy choices and again often get replaced.Think dropped off a cliff is a major overstatement. Other than Aumua, he's still been the best and most consistent NZ hooker throughout Super Rugby this year.
Agree that hookers and props are often replaced and aren't necessarily great captaincy options, was more just commenting on the fact that they're likely to be around for the long-term. I don't think Ioane is a good captaincy option either.
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@Winger said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Papali'i is a pretty feasible option in my mind.
He's not even rated no1 for the Blues.
Wasn’t an issue for Fitzpatrick, if my memory serves me right. Wasn’t Zinzan the Auckland captain when Fitzy was AB captain?
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Papali'i is a pretty feasible option in my mind.
He's not even rated no1 for the Blues.
Wasn’t an issue for Fitzpatrick, if my memory serves me right. Wasn’t Zinzan the Auckland captain when Fitzy was AB captain?
Yep, they did they to take some work off his plate.
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@Gunner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Papali'i is a pretty feasible option in my mind.
He's not even rated no1 for the Blues.
Wasn’t an issue for Fitzpatrick, if my memory serves me right. Wasn’t Zinzan the Auckland captain when Fitzy was AB captain?
Yep, they did they to take some work off his plate.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Papali'i is a pretty feasible option in my mind.
He's not even rated no1 for the Blues.
Wasn’t an issue for Fitzpatrick, if my memory serves me right. Wasn’t Zinzan the Auckland captain when Fitzy was AB captain?
Yep, they did they to take some work off his plate.
My conspiracy is that is the reason why Paps isn’t captain this year.
We’ve had different AB and Super captains quite a bit. I think McCaw wasn’t captain at times for the Saders (or has dementia finally hit?)
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I believe one of @george33 takes was that Dalton would be AB captain.
Chris said similar but then took it back later
They both said the Robertson met with Papali'i in April last year. A couple of weeks after he got the job
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I believe one of @george33 takes was that Dalton would be AB captain.
Chris said similar but then took it back later
They both said the Robertson met with Papali'i in April last year. A couple of weeks after he got the job
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I believe one of @george33 takes was that Dalton would be AB captain.
Chris said similar but then took it back later
They both said the Robertson met with Papali'i in April last year. A couple of weeks after he got the job
If that was the case, by extension I expect DP would be a lock for one of the lose forward starting places
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I believe one of @george33 takes was that Dalton would be AB captain.
Chris said similar but then took it back later
They both said the Robertson met with Papali'i in April last year. A couple of weeks after he got the job
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I believe one of @george33 takes was that Dalton would be AB captain.
Chris said similar but then took it back later
They both said the Robertson met with Papali'i in April last year. A couple of weeks after he got the job
Yeah he did but as I said I wasn’t sure what for.
George mentioned it was for Captaincy -
Could we see Jordie Barrett as captain??? He's likely to be the 12 going forward under Razor, plays 80mins, will go through to 2027, he's been captain for the Canes more often even with others in there this year.
@BorderJB said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Could we see Jordie Barrett as captain??? He's likely to be the 12 going forward under Razor, plays 80mins, will go through to 2027, he's been captain for the Canes more often even with others in there this year.
No. Fuck no.
Dumb as a box of rocks. Big game bottler.
No.
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@BorderJB said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Could we see Jordie Barrett as captain??? He's likely to be the 12 going forward under Razor, plays 80mins, will go through to 2027, he's been captain for the Canes more often even with others in there this year.
No. Fuck no.
Dumb as a box of rocks. Big game bottler.
No.
@mariner4life Haha all good, has been used more often as Cap though. Has a bit of rugby intelligence doesn't he??
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Official 32 man squad:
(squad size conformed)
de Groot
Tu'ungufasi
Lomax
Newell
Numia/Williams
Taylor
Taukei'aho
Aumua
S Barrett
Tuipulotu
Vaai
Papalii
Savea
Finau
Sotutu
Ioane
Jacobson
Perenara
Christie
Ratima
McKenzie
Perofeta
B Barrett
J Barrett
R Ioane
Proctor
Lienert-Brown
Clarke
Telea
Reece
Narawa
LovePersonally, I would not bother with Jacobson, and only have three wings. Pick an extra tighthead and lock.
Availability questions over Lomax, Williams, Aumua, S Barrett, Finau.
Lakai, Darry potential bolters.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
de Groot
Tu'ungufasi
Lomax
Newell
Numia/Williams
Taylor
Taukei'aho
Aumua
S Barrett
Tuipulotu
Vaai
Papalii
Savea
Finau
Sotutu
Ioane
Jacobson
Perenara
Christie
Ratima
McKenzie
Perofeta
B Barrett
J Barrett
R Ioane
Proctor
Lienert-Brown
Clarke
Telea
Reece
Narawa
Love -
@BorderJB said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Could we see Jordie Barrett as captain??? He's likely to be the 12 going forward under Razor, plays 80mins, will go through to 2027, he's been captain for the Canes more often even with others in there this year.
No. Fuck no.
Dumb as a box of rocks. Big game bottler.
No.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@BorderJB said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Could we see Jordie Barrett as captain??? He's likely to be the 12 going forward under Razor, plays 80mins, will go through to 2027, he's been captain for the Canes more often even with others in there this year.
No. Fuck no.
Dumb as a box of rocks. Big game bottler.
No.
So it would be just like when Sam Cane was captain then ?
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I believe one of @george33 takes was that Dalton would be AB captain.
Chris said similar but then took it back later
They both said the Robertson met with Papali'i in April last year. A couple of weeks after he got the job
If that was the case, by extension I expect DP would be a lock for one of the lose forward starting places
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I believe one of @george33 takes was that Dalton would be AB captain.
Chris said similar but then took it back later
They both said the Robertson met with Papali'i in April last year. A couple of weeks after he got the job
If that was the case, by extension I expect DP would be a lock for one of the lose forward starting places
I'm starting to wonder if
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Dalton - only if Razor rates his game.
think it was 2022 when Dalton looked for all money future AB captain, his leadership in the blues was evident, more so when he wasnt there.
But the argument is less strong now, although I expect he would certainly grow into it.
There was an article where Dalton attributed a lot of his growth and development as a leader that year to Schmidt, who was an assistant in 2022.
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@BorderJB said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Could we see Jordie Barrett as captain??? He's likely to be the 12 going forward under Razor, plays 80mins, will go through to 2027, he's been captain for the Canes more often even with others in there this year.
No. Fuck no.
Dumb as a box of rocks. Big game bottler.
No.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@BorderJB said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Could we see Jordie Barrett as captain??? He's likely to be the 12 going forward under Razor, plays 80mins, will go through to 2027, he's been captain for the Canes more often even with others in there this year.
No. Fuck no.
Dumb as a box of rocks. Big game bottler.
Nah this perception of him is unfair, he made those blunders as Hansen decided it would be a good idea to throw an underdeveloped 196cm tall 19 year old outside back into the test arena before he'd even had time to grow into his body and understand his own strengths.
He was 20 at the 2019 World Cup when he famously offloaded into Ta'avao's forehead to sew the game up for the poms, look why single out Jordie, as Ardie's woeful reading of the game and decision making as captain for the All Blacks and Canes would have to rule him out wouldn't it?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@BorderJB said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Could we see Jordie Barrett as captain??? He's likely to be the 12 going forward under Razor, plays 80mins, will go through to 2027, he's been captain for the Canes more often even with others in there this year.
No. Fuck no.
Dumb as a box of rocks. Big game bottler.
Nah this perception of him is unfair, he made those blunders as Hansen decided it would be a good idea to throw an underdeveloped 196cm tall 19 year old outside back into the test arena before he'd even had time to grow into his body and understand his own strengths.
He was 20 at the 2019 World Cup when he famously offloaded into Ta'avao's forehead to sew the game up for the poms, look why single out Jordie, as Ardie's woeful reading of the game and decision making as captain for the All Blacks and Canes would have to rule him out wouldn't it?
@ruggabee Ardie improved immensely last year as captain. I remember the majority on here wanted him to stay captain but obviously Cane took over again.
In fact, did Ardie lose a game as captain last year? His winning percentage was way higher than Canes wasn’t it?
