All Blacks 2024

brodean

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

Here are some stats for the year for the loosies ( excluding ruck counts )

Carries Per 80 Minutes
19.39 Sititi
16.79 Savea
10.85 Finau
8.09 Cane
7.87 Blackadder
4.67 Papali'i
2.63 Jacobson

Tackers Per 80 Minutes
16.17 Cane
15.74 Blackadder
14.55 Sititi
14.24 Finau
13.68 Jacobson
12.85 Papali'i
11.04 Savea

Lineouts Per 80 Minutes
4.85 Sititi
4.74 Jacobson
2.42 Savea
2.10 Blackadder
1.36 Finau
0.43 Cane
0 Papali'i

Turnovers won per 80 minutes
1.62 Sititi
0.88 Papali'i
0.6 Savea
0.52 Blackadder
0.43 Cane
0 Finau, Jacobson

Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes
tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tackles
11.31 Sititi
6.8 Savea
4.75 Finau
3.15 Blackadder
2.05 Papali'i
1.7 Cane
1.06 Jacobson

Total Negative Impacts Per 80 Minutes
turnovers conceded + missed tackles + penalties conceded + (yellow cards*2)
4.98 Blackadder
4.85 Sititi
4.75 Finau
3.83 Cane
2.34 Papali'i
2.27 Savea
2.11 Jacobson

Net Impacts Per 80 Minutes ( Total Impacts - Total Negative Impacts )
6.46 Sititi
4.53 Savea
0 Finau
-0.29 Papali'i
-1.05 Jacobson
-1.83 Blackadder
-2.13 Papali'i

Based on the stats my loose trio:

6 Finau
7 Savea
8 Sititi
21 Papali'i

* Without consideration of rucks attended

Did you make this up these stats ? were did they come from they look unbalanced to me by a long way.

They're the aggregation of Rugby Pass stats.

They look unbalanced because they don't fit your narrative.

Chris

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

Here are some stats for the year for the loosies ( excluding ruck counts )

Carries Per 80 Minutes
19.39 Sititi
16.79 Savea
10.85 Finau
8.09 Cane
7.87 Blackadder
4.67 Papali'i
2.63 Jacobson

Tackers Per 80 Minutes
16.17 Cane
15.74 Blackadder
14.55 Sititi
14.24 Finau
13.68 Jacobson
12.85 Papali'i
11.04 Savea

Lineouts Per 80 Minutes
4.85 Sititi
4.74 Jacobson
2.42 Savea
2.10 Blackadder
1.36 Finau
0.43 Cane
0 Papali'i

Turnovers won per 80 minutes
1.62 Sititi
0.88 Papali'i
0.6 Savea
0.52 Blackadder
0.43 Cane
0 Finau, Jacobson

Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes
tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tackles
11.31 Sititi
6.8 Savea
4.75 Finau
3.15 Blackadder
2.05 Papali'i
1.7 Cane
1.06 Jacobson

Total Negative Impacts Per 80 Minutes
turnovers conceded + missed tackles + penalties conceded + (yellow cards*2)
4.98 Blackadder
4.85 Sititi
4.75 Finau
3.83 Cane
2.34 Papali'i
2.27 Savea
2.11 Jacobson

Net Impacts Per 80 Minutes ( Total Impacts - Total Negative Impacts )
6.46 Sititi
4.53 Savea
0 Finau
-0.29 Papali'i
-1.05 Jacobson
-1.83 Blackadder
-2.13 Papali'i

Based on the stats my loose trio:

6 Finau
7 Savea
8 Sititi
21 Papali'i

* Without consideration of rucks attended

Did you make this up these stats ? were did they come from they look unbalanced to me by a long way.

They're the aggregation of Rugby Pass stats.

They look unbalanced because they don't fit your narrative.

But they fit yours aye.
Finau has not made that much impact no fucking way he is missing most of the time.
Stats are not the be all and end all of what goes on the field its a interpretation of what some one sees.
In my job stats do not always tell you a story for selection it is down to circumstances of the game quality of possession, amount of possession how others have performed around you to impact a game.
It is not the bible.

brodean

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

Here are some stats for the year for the loosies ( excluding ruck counts )

Carries Per 80 Minutes
19.39 Sititi
16.79 Savea
10.85 Finau
8.09 Cane
7.87 Blackadder
4.67 Papali'i
2.63 Jacobson

Tackers Per 80 Minutes
16.17 Cane
15.74 Blackadder
14.55 Sititi
14.24 Finau
13.68 Jacobson
12.85 Papali'i
11.04 Savea

Lineouts Per 80 Minutes
4.85 Sititi
4.74 Jacobson
2.42 Savea
2.10 Blackadder
1.36 Finau
0.43 Cane
0 Papali'i

Turnovers won per 80 minutes
1.62 Sititi
0.88 Papali'i
0.6 Savea
0.52 Blackadder
0.43 Cane
0 Finau, Jacobson

Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes
tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tackles
11.31 Sititi
6.8 Savea
4.75 Finau
3.15 Blackadder
2.05 Papali'i
1.7 Cane
1.06 Jacobson

Total Negative Impacts Per 80 Minutes
turnovers conceded + missed tackles + penalties conceded + (yellow cards*2)
4.98 Blackadder
4.85 Sititi
4.75 Finau
3.83 Cane
2.34 Papali'i
2.27 Savea
2.11 Jacobson

Net Impacts Per 80 Minutes ( Total Impacts - Total Negative Impacts )
6.46 Sititi
4.53 Savea
0 Finau
-0.29 Papali'i
-1.05 Jacobson
-1.83 Blackadder
-2.13 Papali'i

Based on the stats my loose trio:

6 Finau
7 Savea
8 Sititi
21 Papali'i

* Without consideration of rucks attended

Did you make this up these stats ? were did they come from they look unbalanced to me by a long way.

They're the aggregation of Rugby Pass stats.

They look unbalanced because they don't fit your narrative.

But they fit yours aye.
Finau has not made that much impact no fucking way he is missing most of the time.

This is something you made up in your head. His performances against England were underrated. His workrate was good and from the eye he hit a lot of rucks too. We won significantly more rucks against England across the 2 tests and we won significantly more rucks under 3 seconds.

brodean

My narrative would have Papali'i performing better but it's simply not the case. I think he's gone backwards under Robertson with his general play. His defensive workrate isn't as high but I do think he's been the best loose forward this year at the breakdown.

Chris

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

Here are some stats for the year for the loosies ( excluding ruck counts )

Carries Per 80 Minutes
19.39 Sititi
16.79 Savea
10.85 Finau
8.09 Cane
7.87 Blackadder
4.67 Papali'i
2.63 Jacobson

Tackers Per 80 Minutes
16.17 Cane
15.74 Blackadder
14.55 Sititi
14.24 Finau
13.68 Jacobson
12.85 Papali'i
11.04 Savea

Lineouts Per 80 Minutes
4.85 Sititi
4.74 Jacobson
2.42 Savea
2.10 Blackadder
1.36 Finau
0.43 Cane
0 Papali'i

Turnovers won per 80 minutes
1.62 Sititi
0.88 Papali'i
0.6 Savea
0.52 Blackadder
0.43 Cane
0 Finau, Jacobson

Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes
tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tackles
11.31 Sititi
6.8 Savea
4.75 Finau
3.15 Blackadder
2.05 Papali'i
1.7 Cane
1.06 Jacobson

Total Negative Impacts Per 80 Minutes
turnovers conceded + missed tackles + penalties conceded + (yellow cards*2)
4.98 Blackadder
4.85 Sititi
4.75 Finau
3.83 Cane
2.34 Papali'i
2.27 Savea
2.11 Jacobson

Net Impacts Per 80 Minutes ( Total Impacts - Total Negative Impacts )
6.46 Sititi
4.53 Savea
0 Finau
-0.29 Papali'i
-1.05 Jacobson
-1.83 Blackadder
-2.13 Papali'i

Based on the stats my loose trio:

6 Finau
7 Savea
8 Sititi
21 Papali'i

* Without consideration of rucks attended

Did you make this up these stats ? were did they come from they look unbalanced to me by a long way.

They're the aggregation of Rugby Pass stats.

They look unbalanced because they don't fit your narrative.

But they fit yours aye.
Finau has not made that much impact no fucking way he is missing most of the time.

This is something you made up in your head. His performances against England were underrated. His workrate was good and from the eye he hit a lot of rucks too. We won significantly more rucks against England across the 2 tests and we won significantly more rucks under 3 seconds.

That's BS

brodean

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

Here are some stats for the year for the loosies ( excluding ruck counts )

Carries Per 80 Minutes
19.39 Sititi
16.79 Savea
10.85 Finau
8.09 Cane
7.87 Blackadder
4.67 Papali'i
2.63 Jacobson

Tackers Per 80 Minutes
16.17 Cane
15.74 Blackadder
14.55 Sititi
14.24 Finau
13.68 Jacobson
12.85 Papali'i
11.04 Savea

Lineouts Per 80 Minutes
4.85 Sititi
4.74 Jacobson
2.42 Savea
2.10 Blackadder
1.36 Finau
0.43 Cane
0 Papali'i

Turnovers won per 80 minutes
1.62 Sititi
0.88 Papali'i
0.6 Savea
0.52 Blackadder
0.43 Cane
0 Finau, Jacobson

Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes
tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tackles
11.31 Sititi
6.8 Savea
4.75 Finau
3.15 Blackadder
2.05 Papali'i
1.7 Cane
1.06 Jacobson

Total Negative Impacts Per 80 Minutes
turnovers conceded + missed tackles + penalties conceded + (yellow cards*2)
4.98 Blackadder
4.85 Sititi
4.75 Finau
3.83 Cane
2.34 Papali'i
2.27 Savea
2.11 Jacobson

Net Impacts Per 80 Minutes ( Total Impacts - Total Negative Impacts )
6.46 Sititi
4.53 Savea
0 Finau
-0.29 Papali'i
-1.05 Jacobson
-1.83 Blackadder
-2.13 Papali'i

Based on the stats my loose trio:

6 Finau
7 Savea
8 Sititi
21 Papali'i

* Without consideration of rucks attended

Did you make this up these stats ? were did they come from they look unbalanced to me by a long way.

They're the aggregation of Rugby Pass stats.

They look unbalanced because they don't fit your narrative.

But they fit yours aye.
Finau has not made that much impact no fucking way he is missing most of the time.

This is something you made up in your head. His performances against England were underrated. His workrate was good and from the eye he hit a lot of rucks too. We won significantly more rucks against England across the 2 tests and we won significantly more rucks under 3 seconds.

That's BS

Go back and watch him in the games. If Scott Barrett had actually made calls to him in the lineouts instead of Savea overall his contribution would still see him being selected.

The fiddling at 6 has been poor.

Chris

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

Here are some stats for the year for the loosies ( excluding ruck counts )

Carries Per 80 Minutes
19.39 Sititi
16.79 Savea
10.85 Finau
8.09 Cane
7.87 Blackadder
4.67 Papali'i
2.63 Jacobson

Tackers Per 80 Minutes
16.17 Cane
15.74 Blackadder
14.55 Sititi
14.24 Finau
13.68 Jacobson
12.85 Papali'i
11.04 Savea

Lineouts Per 80 Minutes
4.85 Sititi
4.74 Jacobson
2.42 Savea
2.10 Blackadder
1.36 Finau
0.43 Cane
0 Papali'i

Turnovers won per 80 minutes
1.62 Sititi
0.88 Papali'i
0.6 Savea
0.52 Blackadder
0.43 Cane
0 Finau, Jacobson

Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes
tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tackles
11.31 Sititi
6.8 Savea
4.75 Finau
3.15 Blackadder
2.05 Papali'i
1.7 Cane
1.06 Jacobson

Total Negative Impacts Per 80 Minutes
turnovers conceded + missed tackles + penalties conceded + (yellow cards*2)
4.98 Blackadder
4.85 Sititi
4.75 Finau
3.83 Cane
2.34 Papali'i
2.27 Savea
2.11 Jacobson

Net Impacts Per 80 Minutes ( Total Impacts - Total Negative Impacts )
6.46 Sititi
4.53 Savea
0 Finau
-0.29 Papali'i
-1.05 Jacobson
-1.83 Blackadder
-2.13 Papali'i

Based on the stats my loose trio:

6 Finau
7 Savea
8 Sititi
21 Papali'i

* Without consideration of rucks attended

Did you make this up these stats ? were did they come from they look unbalanced to me by a long way.

They're the aggregation of Rugby Pass stats.

They look unbalanced because they don't fit your narrative.

But they fit yours aye.
Finau has not made that much impact no fucking way he is missing most of the time.

This is something you made up in your head. His performances against England were underrated. His workrate was good and from the eye he hit a lot of rucks too. We won significantly more rucks against England across the 2 tests and we won significantly more rucks under 3 seconds.

That's BS

Go back and watch him in the games.

Fuck me I have more than once he was average as hell.

Chris

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

Here are some stats for the year for the loosies ( excluding ruck counts )

Carries Per 80 Minutes
19.39 Sititi
16.79 Savea
10.85 Finau
8.09 Cane
7.87 Blackadder
4.67 Papali'i
2.63 Jacobson

Tackers Per 80 Minutes
16.17 Cane
15.74 Blackadder
14.55 Sititi
14.24 Finau
13.68 Jacobson
12.85 Papali'i
11.04 Savea

Lineouts Per 80 Minutes
4.85 Sititi
4.74 Jacobson
2.42 Savea
2.10 Blackadder
1.36 Finau
0.43 Cane
0 Papali'i

Turnovers won per 80 minutes
1.62 Sititi
0.88 Papali'i
0.6 Savea
0.52 Blackadder
0.43 Cane
0 Finau, Jacobson

Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes
tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tackles
11.31 Sititi
6.8 Savea
4.75 Finau
3.15 Blackadder
2.05 Papali'i
1.7 Cane
1.06 Jacobson

Total Negative Impacts Per 80 Minutes
turnovers conceded + missed tackles + penalties conceded + (yellow cards*2)
4.98 Blackadder
4.85 Sititi
4.75 Finau
3.83 Cane
2.34 Papali'i
2.27 Savea
2.11 Jacobson

Net Impacts Per 80 Minutes ( Total Impacts - Total Negative Impacts )
6.46 Sititi
4.53 Savea
0 Finau
-0.29 Papali'i
-1.05 Jacobson
-1.83 Blackadder
-2.13 Papali'i

Based on the stats my loose trio:

6 Finau
7 Savea
8 Sititi
21 Papali'i

* Without consideration of rucks attended

Did you make this up these stats ? were did they come from they look unbalanced to me by a long way.

They're the aggregation of Rugby Pass stats.

They look unbalanced because they don't fit your narrative.

But they fit yours aye.
Finau has not made that much impact no fucking way he is missing most of the time.

This is something you made up in your head. His performances against England were underrated. His workrate was good and from the eye he hit a lot of rucks too. We won significantly more rucks against England across the 2 tests and we won significantly more rucks under 3 seconds.

That's BS

Go back and watch him in the games. If Scott Barrett had actually made calls to him in the lineouts instead of Savea overall his contribution would still see him being selected.

The fiddling at 6 has been poor.

Ohh now it is Scott Barret's fault Finau was poor and got dropped. I see everyone's fault but Finau's.

Old Samurai Jack

FFS, the cult of anti-EB has hit new highs. Waste of time conversing with the religiously obsessed. Nutters!

Old Samurai Jack

It was a bit like this when Akira/Frizzel occupied the No.6 spot as well. What is it about this position?

taniwharugby

@Old-Samurai-Jack all Jerome Kaino's fault, he shouldnt have gotten older and retired.

brodean

They invest 3 full games in Blackadder to get him up to match fitness and then he gets injured. He made a lot of missed tackles and gave away a lot of penalties.

He's a liability.

If you don't want Finau put Vaa'i at 6. Vaa'i is just as athletic as the last two Bok blindsides.

Blackadder is a broken donkey like Cane was for Foster. There is so much more talent in NZ rugby and Foster then Robertson pick cart horses who are too slow and always broken.

It's like those two coaches want to bang their heads against walls and lose.

ARHS

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

like those two coaches want to bang their heads against walls and lose

But they picked Wallis, and not Iose. Maybe he should be in the picture too. Akira is signed overseas.
I found the (non) usage of Finau by the coaches rather strange. Standing on the sideline positioned for the contestable kicks that never came, and seemingly not being called by Barrett in the lineouts, when EB regularly is when playing 6.

MN5

@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024:

It was a bit like this when Akira/Frizzel occupied the No.6 spot as well. What is it about this position?

It is a bit odd how 12 has had a comparative free ride considering none of SBW, Crotty, J Barrett etc have measured up to Nonus legacy…..

I started typing this and then remembered David Havili who is basically a less injury prone version of Ethan Blackadder for the backs.

pakman

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/the-all-blacks-100-years-of-attitude-324342.html

DaGrubster

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

Here are some stats for the year for the loosies ( excluding ruck counts )

Carries Per 80 Minutes
19.39 Sititi
16.79 Savea
10.85 Finau
8.09 Cane
7.87 Blackadder
4.67 Papali'i
2.63 Jacobson

Tackers Per 80 Minutes
16.17 Cane
15.74 Blackadder
14.55 Sititi
14.24 Finau
13.68 Jacobson
12.85 Papali'i
11.04 Savea

Lineouts Per 80 Minutes
4.85 Sititi
4.74 Jacobson
2.42 Savea
2.10 Blackadder
1.36 Finau
0.43 Cane
0 Papali'i

Turnovers won per 80 minutes
1.62 Sititi
0.88 Papali'i
0.6 Savea
0.52 Blackadder
0.43 Cane
0 Finau, Jacobson

Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes
tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tackles
11.31 Sititi
6.8 Savea
4.75 Finau
3.15 Blackadder
2.05 Papali'i
1.7 Cane
1.06 Jacobson

Total Negative Impacts Per 80 Minutes
turnovers conceded + missed tackles + penalties conceded + (yellow cards*2)
4.98 Blackadder
4.85 Sititi
4.75 Finau
3.83 Cane
2.34 Papali'i
2.27 Savea
2.11 Jacobson

Net Impacts Per 80 Minutes ( Total Impacts - Total Negative Impacts )
6.46 Sititi
4.53 Savea
0 Finau
-0.29 Papali'i
-1.05 Jacobson
-1.83 Blackadder
-2.13 Papali'i

Based on the stats my loose trio:

6 Finau
7 Savea
8 Sititi
21 Papali'i

* Without consideration of rucks attended

Did you make this up these stats ? were did they come from they look unbalanced to me by a long way.

They're the aggregation of Rugby Pass stats.

They look unbalanced because they don't fit your narrative.

But they fit yours aye.
Finau has not made that much impact no fucking way he is missing most of the time.
Stats are not the be all and end all of what goes on the field its a interpretation of what some one sees.
In my job stats do not always tell you a story for selection it is down to circumstances of the game quality of possession, amount of possession how others have performed around you to impact a game.
It is not the bible.

Finau is the new suitcase?

Jet

Jet

kiwiinmelb

I’m pretty neutral on Blackadder , don’t see his name as a terrible selection if named in a. squad but at the same time not sure where he best fits in either and don’t see him as the long term solution at 6 .

I tend to agree more with the criticism that the overall selection of the loosies is out of balance more so than piling on the individuals

Chris B.

@brodean Looks like you put a bit of work into your model, but I'm pretty sceptical about its predictive value.

For example - according to your model - Sam Cane has been our worst loosie. But, according to Duluth's MotM polls (which admittedly have their own problems) collating the opinions of Ferners on who played best - Sam Cane was one of our best players vs SA and well ahead of Ardie in both games - marginally behind Blackadder and Sititi in each.

An immediate problem with your model is that it only counts dominant tackles, but penalises all missed tackles.

Which basically says only dominant tackles are useful, but all missed tackles are harmful.

This is clearly not true.

To play well you should only attempt tackles on small inside backs when you've clearly got them lined up to be smashed?

The Silver Fern

All Blacks 2024