All Blacks 2024
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Conservatism was trendy and was doing my head in. Obvious to all and sundry Roigard was a game changer.
We've become far to conservative.
Christian Cullen would debut at 25 instead of 20 now days.
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We've become far to conservative.
Christian Cullen would debut at 25 instead of 20 now days.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
We've become far to conservative.
Christian Cullen would debut at 25 instead of 20 now days.
……..for all the shit John Hart got about keeping Glen Osborne at 15 ( where let’s face it he’d done a fine job ) that was a bold, terrific selection.
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We've become far to conservative.
Christian Cullen would debut at 25 instead of 20 now days.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
We've become far to conservative.
Christian Cullen would debut at 25 instead of 20 now days.
Ireland beat South Africa in South Africa with 22 year old Jamie Osborne playing his first professional match at 15.
(a position he hadn't played at any level since he was a teenager).We are pearl clutching over giving 26 year old, 33 times capped, Will Jordan and 23 year old Ruben Love (who played whole Super Rugby season at 15 with aplomb) a go at 15.
Meanwhile SA have blooded Sasha at 10 against us, Fassi at 15 while Canan Moodie has 11 caps aged 21.
We are losing both now on the field AND in the development stakes.
Too many underperforming incumbents have a vise like grip on their Allblack jerseys.
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Papali'i has only played 3 out of the 7 tests this year so clearly he isn't rated highly.
The coaching staff really disliked what the team put out against England but I would say those were our best two games this year and the only games where we played 80 minutes with relatively low errors.
They've been trying other combos since those games to try and get to the game they want to play but they've only won 1 out of the last 4.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Papali'i has only played 3 out of the 7 tests this year so clearly he isn't rated highly.
The coaching staff really disliked what the team put out against England but I would say those were our best two games this year and the only games where we played 80 minutes with relatively low errors.
They've been trying other combos since those games to try and get to the game they want to play but they've only won 1 out of the last 4.
Yeah they clearly don't rate/like Blues forwards. I assume they'll be lining up Blackadder/Jacobsen once Cane leaves? Or maybe Lakai?
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I think the reality being discussed here is mostly about our coaching team being so ingrained in super rugby against Australian teams and getting to grips with the differences needed for international rugby against the big guns.
So much online posting, especially away from this forum, seemingly expects us to dominate every match against all international teams and do it by playing the way we do in super rugby.
Give the new coaches a couple of years to mould our players and build new patterns to pressure all our top international opponents. Don't assume that a centre field confrontational Blues forwards approach will dominate South Africa, or that a Hurricanes backline will open up the European guns like super teams.
Why not support the attempts to tweak and develop combo variations so that we can vary our game plan with confidence against stronger international opponents. -
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
We've become far to conservative.
Christian Cullen would debut at 25 instead of 20 now days.
Ireland beat South Africa in South Africa with 22 year old Jamie Osborne playing his first professional match at 15.
(a position he hadn't played at any level since he was a teenager).We are pearl clutching over giving 26 year old, 33 times capped, Will Jordan and 23 year old Ruben Love (who played whole Super Rugby season at 15 with aplomb) a go at 15.
Meanwhile SA have blooded Sasha at 10 against us, Fassi at 15 while Canan Moodie has 11 caps aged 21.
We are losing both now on the field AND in the development stakes.
Too many underperforming incumbents have a vise like grip on their Allblack jerseys.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
Too many underperforming incumbents have a vise like grip on their Allblack jerseys.
Bingo and instead of the criticism being against the players or the coaches that selected them - the narrative becomes that we need to select overseas ABs
The ABs talk about pressure but they don't have selection pressure.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
Too many underperforming incumbents have a vise like grip on their Allblack jerseys.
Bingo and instead of the criticism being against the players or the coaches that selected them - the narrative becomes that we need to select overseas ABs
The ABs talk about pressure but they don't have selection pressure.
@KiwiMurph been the case for many years now TBF, harder to get dropped than get in the ABs...
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
Roigard has had a great start to his international career but he hasn't been tearing up trees a la Lomu - not meant in the physical sense but in the influence sense
I think far too many people are placing the success of the ABs at his feet
If he turns out to be the next Dupont I will be the first to say I was wrong and shout how good he is from the rooftops
But the weight of expectation, as we're already seeing with 'Surf Jesus, can often be too heavy a load to bear
Or may be expected from the wrong person
Not at all he's no Lomu, but he plays nine and offers a much wider range of threats than all our other 9s. More than Smith who's pass was so important but also his lack of running game made us so much more predictable. He just has to play and offer those threats and it will make a huge difference
Hope he's the answer you're all looking for
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
Roigard has had a great start to his international career but he hasn't been tearing up trees a la Lomu - not meant in the physical sense but in the influence sense
I think far too many people are placing the success of the ABs at his feet
If he turns out to be the next Dupont I will be the first to say I was wrong and shout how good he is from the rooftops
But the weight of expectation, as we're already seeing with 'Surf Jesus, can often be too heavy a load to bear
Or may be expected from the wrong person
Not at all he's no Lomu, but he plays nine and offers a much wider range of threats than all our other 9s. More than Smith who's pass was so important but also his lack of running game made us so much more predictable. He just has to play and offer those threats and it will make a huge difference
Hope he's the answer you're all looking for
All who?
I just think he will be a significant step up from what we currently have.
As I hope for with the coach over the last one as well, just a significant step up. Not a big ask in that case! Am prepared to give him a bit of breathing space to do that too. People who are expecting miracles probably call him “Jesus”
He’s more Brian I reckon. -
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
We've become far to conservative.
Christian Cullen would debut at 25 instead of 20 now days.
Ireland beat South Africa in South Africa with 22 year old Jamie Osborne playing his first professional match at 15.
(a position he hadn't played at any level since he was a teenager).We are pearl clutching over giving 26 year old, 33 times capped, Will Jordan and 23 year old Ruben Love (who played whole Super Rugby season at 15 with aplomb) a go at 15.
Meanwhile SA have blooded Sasha at 10 against us, Fassi at 15 while Canan Moodie has 11 caps aged 21.
We are losing both now on the field AND in the development stakes.
Too many underperforming incumbents have a vise like grip on their Allblack jerseys.
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@KiwiMurph been the case for many years now TBF, harder to get dropped than get in the ABs...
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph been the case for many years now TBF, harder to get dropped than get in the ABs...
Why don't they rotate players a bit more like SA do.
Savea, JB or Cane maybe a bit below par for example and could take a breather either out of the 23 for a week or on the bench. It would give guys like Love, ALB, Proctor , Sititi, Lakai a chance to shine and keep everyone on their toes. -
Another thing to bullshit the SR is no good thing.
It's noticeable to me that players who had big improvements in SR or consistently performed have been our best ABs this year.
The ones selected from no SR or minimal SR have fluctuated but mostly ordinary.
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What are the second half goals for these coaches? What's happening at halftime in the sheds?
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
What are the second half goals for these coaches? What's happening at halftime in the sheds?
This much average in the 2nd half is on the coaches and leaders.
Did they pick the wrong captain? Barrett is anonymous and looks like he needs a rest.
Our set piece generally falling apart late in the game is a scandal, but they cant pick their third hooker because he’s almost literally got his learn-to-throw stickers on his back window.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
What are the second half goals for these coaches? What's happening at halftime in the sheds?
This much average in the 2nd half is on the coaches and leaders.
Did they pick the wrong captain? Barrett is anonymous and looks like he needs a rest.
Our set piece generally falling apart late in the game is a scandal, but they cant pick their third hooker because he’s almost literally got his learn-to-throw stickers on his back window.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
Barrett is anonymous and looks like he needs a rest.
Would be pretty gobsmacking if a guy who's hardly played needs a rest. But I wouldn't be surprised....trust is pretty low with this coaching group.
Anyway, thank fuck we won! Bledisloe!
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
Barrett is anonymous and looks like he needs a rest.
Would be pretty gobsmacking if a guy who's hardly played needs a rest. But I wouldn't be surprised....trust is pretty low with this coaching group.
Anyway, thank fuck we won! Bledisloe!
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
Barrett is anonymous and looks like he needs a rest.
Would be pretty gobsmacking if a guy who's hardly played needs a rest. But I wouldn't be surprised....trust is pretty low with this coaching group.
Anyway, thank fuck we won! Bledisloe!
Yeah....woooo!
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I think the reality being discussed here is mostly about our coaching team being so ingrained in super rugby against Australian teams and getting to grips with the differences needed for international rugby against the big guns.
So much online posting, especially away from this forum, seemingly expects us to dominate every match against all international teams and do it by playing the way we do in super rugby.
Give the new coaches a couple of years to mould our players and build new patterns to pressure all our top international opponents. Don't assume that a centre field confrontational Blues forwards approach will dominate South Africa, or that a Hurricanes backline will open up the European guns like super teams.
Why not support the attempts to tweak and develop combo variations so that we can vary our game plan with confidence against stronger international opponents.@ARHS said in All Blacks 2024:
Don't assume that a centre field confrontational Blues forwards approach will dominate South Africa,
I guess I don't assume that it would dominate South Africa. But perhaps that approach would give us a lot more to build from, compared to tonight's latest misfires. Basics first, earn the right to go wide, and all the related rugby clichés...
(Helps that I'll always be a little biased towards Vern after 15 August 2004...)
