All Blacks 2024
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
But I have to concur, Ioane's passing is at risk of being difficult and inaccurate. He seems slow to note others nearby and his instinct is still not to distribute. A shame, he was a tiger on defence (and so was ALB near the end of the game).
He's a weapon on the wing.
Sititi has a great ability to think and pass under pressure. Aware where others are.If we pick Hoskins as well our loosies will literally have better ball skills than our midfield.
If we go 6-2, Hoskins could probably cover midfield.
Before people drop their shit, I’m talking about in an emergency here.
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
But I have to concur, Ioane's passing is at risk of being difficult and inaccurate. He seems slow to note others nearby and his instinct is still not to distribute. A shame, he was a tiger on defence (and so was ALB near the end of the game).
He's a weapon on the wing.
Sititi has a great ability to think and pass under pressure. Aware where others are.If we pick Hoskins as well our loosies will literally have better ball skills than our midfield.
If we go 6-2, Hoskins could probably cover midfield.
Before people drop their shit, I’m talking about in an emergency here.
Jerry Collins shifted out to 12 in club footy. Sure, it was club footy but there's no reason why Ardie or Hos couldn't do that too as you said if and when required. They certainly have the speed and power.
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@brodean Which is why he was and should always have been a 7 - but couldn't play there because we locked Cane in as captain.
What I don't get is why they aren't keen on reversing Foster's stupid decision and putting him back there - especially when we have 2 guys banging the door down at 8.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean Which is why he was and should always have been a 7 - but couldn't play there because we locked Cane in as captain.
What I don't get is why they aren't keen on reversing Foster's stupid decision and putting him back there - especially when we have 2 guys banging the door down at 8.Have you noticed the style of loose forward pack Razor has generally played for the Crusaders?
Biggest guy has generally been Grace if available and he's not exactly big.
It's basically being replicated with the ABs. That's probably why everyone apart from Finau is basically a 7.
I'm happy for Savea to be tried at 7 or the bench but don't see it happening when he's vice captain and their mindset around the bench.
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Ioane was close to man of the match in Ireland 3.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Ioane was close to man of the match in Ireland 3.
That doesn't change the consistently convincing argument. Personally I think Ioane is another who suffered from the Cane/Savea combination. Akira is more of a wrestler (like Savea), and Cane is not a ball runner at all.
I think they preferred Frizzell because as a counterpoint he runs into contact, rather than going in soft and then driving the legs / wrestling his way forward like Savea and Ioane.
Frizzel was the epitome of inconsistency himself of course. -
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Ioane was close to man of the match in Ireland 3.
That doesn't change the consistently convincing argument. Personally I think Ioane is another who suffered from the Cane/Savea combination. Akira is more of a wrestler (like Savea), and Cane is not a ball runner at all.
I think they preferred Frizzell because as a counterpoint he runs into contact, rather than going in soft and then driving the legs / wrestling his way forward like Savea and Ioane.
Frizzel was the epitome of inconsistency himself of course.I agree that Ioane was inconsistent but I don't think he was terrible at any stage. He ranged from mediocre to great.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean Which is why he was and should always have been a 7 - but couldn't play there because we locked Cane in as captain.
What I don't get is why they aren't keen on reversing Foster's stupid decision and putting him back there - especially when we have 2 guys banging the door down at 8.Have you noticed the style of loose forward pack Razor has generally played for the Crusaders?
Biggest guy has generally been Grace if available and he's not exactly big.
It's basically being replicated with the ABs. That's probably why everyone apart from Finau is basically a 7.
I'm happy for Savea to be tried at 7 or the bench but don't see it happening when he's vice captain and their mindset around the bench.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean Which is why he was and should always have been a 7 - but couldn't play there because we locked Cane in as captain.
What I don't get is why they aren't keen on reversing Foster's stupid decision and putting him back there - especially when we have 2 guys banging the door down at 8.Have you noticed the style of loose forward pack Razor has generally played for the Crusaders?
Biggest guy has generally been Grace if available and he's not exactly big.
It's basically being replicated with the ABs. That's probably why everyone apart from Finau is basically a 7.
I'm happy for Savea to be tried at 7 or the bench but don't see it happening when he's vice captain and their mindset around the bench.
Hmmm, maybe. Had Read for the first few years. Whetu Douglas. Matera in 2022 a reasonably sized loosie.
Dominic Gardiner, Grace and Blackadder are in the medium category to me - all just a bit bigger than Cane, Dalton, Jacobson, Savea, Sititi.The Finau and no other similar player selection in the squad has always been a strange one for me.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean Which is why he was and should always have been a 7 - but couldn't play there because we locked Cane in as captain.
What I don't get is why they aren't keen on reversing Foster's stupid decision and putting him back there - especially when we have 2 guys banging the door down at 8.Have you noticed the style of loose forward pack Razor has generally played for the Crusaders?
Biggest guy has generally been Grace if available and he's not exactly big.
It's basically being replicated with the ABs. That's probably why everyone apart from Finau is basically a 7.
I'm happy for Savea to be tried at 7 or the bench but don't see it happening when he's vice captain and their mindset around the bench.
Hmmm, maybe. Had Read for the first few years. Whetu Douglas. Matera in 2022 a reasonably sized loosie.
Dominic Gardiner, Grace and Blackadder are in the medium category to me - all just a bit bigger than Cane, Dalton, Jacobson, Savea, Sititi.The Finau and no other similar player selection in the squad has always been a strange one for me.
Douglas, Matera, Gardiner, and Blackadder are all big sized test 7's for me. I guess you could call them medium.
They're all around the 190cm 110kg mark.
The entire starting Blues loose forwards is bigger than that.
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@gt12 All those games counted.
He got dished a pretty bogus yellow card after 90 seconds, which probably hampered him a bit.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@gt12 All those games counted.
He got dished a pretty bogus yellow card after 90 seconds, which probably hampered him a bit.
Another way of describing it would be an avoidable yellow card and then did fuck all when he got back on the field.....
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I'll honestly be surprised if Sotutu makes the AB XV which is sad.
I think Haig has potential but anyone of Parker, Stodart, Finau, Ah Kuoi, Delaney, or Suafoa have just as much potential.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'll honestly be surprised if Sotutu makes the AB XV which is sad.
I think Haig has potential but anyone of Parker, Stodart, Finau, Ah Kuoi, Delaney, or Suafoa have just as much potential.
A lot may come down to who is selecting the team. Is it Donk, or TWM or a combo?
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'll honestly be surprised if Sotutu makes the AB XV which is sad.
I think Haig has potential but anyone of Parker, Stodart, Finau, Ah Kuoi, Delaney, or Suafoa have just as much potential.
A lot may come down to who is selecting the team. Is it Donk, or TWM or a combo?
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
. I liked what Tosi brought, but I think those big NH tests come too soon for him, and his weakness in the scrum could be exposed.
Not against England's shit scrummaging bench props.
Are Ireland's reserve props good at scrummaging?@Frank said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
. I liked what Tosi brought, but I think those big NH tests come too soon for him, and his weakness in the scrum could be exposed.
Not against England's shit scrummaging bench props.
Are Ireland's reserve props good at scrummaging?Ever heard of a fella named Cian Healey?
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024:
The turnovers need to be taken in context - he attempts a STACK of them every game - at the expense of putting in a dominant tackle or counter-rucking. I think they cost us significantly on a net/net basis. I would so much rather he put in 3-4 hard shoulders into some prick running at us.
Similar story with his ball running. He hangs off cleaning rucks to be in position to hit the ball up. There's a trade off.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024:
The turnovers need to be taken in context - he attempts a STACK of them every game - at the expense of putting in a dominant tackle or counter-rucking. I think they cost us significantly on a net/net basis. I would so much rather he put in 3-4 hard shoulders into some prick running at us.
Similar story with his ball running. He hangs off cleaning rucks to be in position to hit the ball up. There's a trade off.
And mauls.
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What's being missed a bit amongst the loose forward discussion is that Robertson has pretty explicitly said he basically sees no difference between the roles of a 6 and the roles of an 8 - they're interchangeable except when occasionally attacking off the back of a scrum.
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What's being missed a bit amongst the loose forward discussion is that Robertson has pretty explicitly said he basically sees no difference between the roles of a 6 and the roles of an 8 - they're interchangeable except when occasionally attacking off the back of a scrum.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
What's being missed a bit amongst the loose forward discussion is that Robertson has pretty explicitly said he basically sees no difference between the roles of a 6 and the roles of an 8 - they're interchangeable except when occasionally attacking off the back of a scrum.
He said exactly that in the post-match interview following Bledisloe 2. Even offered England as an example of the other teams doing the same thing.
So either my thinking is wrong in that the roles in modern rugby are still quite different, or he is wrong. And as proof I'll offer the example that for some reason they never name Cane as 8 and Ardie as 6...
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
What's being missed a bit amongst the loose forward discussion is that Robertson has pretty explicitly said he basically sees no difference between the roles of a 6 and the roles of an 8 - they're interchangeable except when occasionally attacking off the back of a scrum.
He said exactly that in the post-match interview following Bledisloe 2. Even offered England as an example of the other teams doing the same thing.
So either my thinking is wrong in that the roles in modern rugby are still quite different, or he is wrong. And as proof I'll offer the example that for some reason they never name Cane as 8 and Ardie as 6...
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
What's being missed a bit amongst the loose forward discussion is that Robertson has pretty explicitly said he basically sees no difference between the roles of a 6 and the roles of an 8 - they're interchangeable except when occasionally attacking off the back of a scrum.
He said exactly that in the post-match interview following Bledisloe 2. Even offered England as an example of the other teams doing the same thing.
So either my thinking is wrong in that the roles in modern rugby are still quite different, or he is wrong. And as proof I'll offer the example that for some reason they never name Cane as 8 and Ardie as 6...
I think 7 is still distinguishable from the other two?
But no reason to change Savea when he's been playing 8 and does well off the back of the scrum. I think it more means that Hoskins Sotutu, for example, isn't missing out due to his lack of versatility.
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What's being missed a bit amongst the loose forward discussion is that Robertson has pretty explicitly said he basically sees no difference between the roles of a 6 and the roles of an 8 - they're interchangeable except when occasionally attacking off the back of a scrum.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
What's being missed a bit amongst the loose forward discussion is that Robertson has pretty explicitly said he basically sees no difference between the roles of a 6 and the roles of an 8 - they're interchangeable except when occasionally attacking off the back of a scrum.
I think people do get overly focussed on numbers. You want a jackler, a cleaner, a genuine lineout option, a power runner and a hard shouldered tackler.
On attacking scrums power runner packs at 8. On defensive scrums tackler at blindside. Usually jackler and tackler are separate so jackler at open side on opp scrums. Also wild card of linking/passing loosie, who comes off own scrum off open side or back.
We seem to be short a hard tackling lineout option if Finau excluded. -
Hoss gives you lineout, linking and some jackling. Wallace adds power running and some jackling. LJ gives you shoulder and some jackling. That combo only needs a cleaner.
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
Hoss gives you lineout, linking and some jackling. Wallace adds power running and some jackling. LJ gives you shoulder and some jackling. That combo only needs a cleaner.
Thought crossed my mind that TWM might have a concern about Paps and breakdown. Paps and Niggles was fine but maybe felt Paps and Wallace might not work so well.
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@MajorRage said in All Blacks 2024:
Granted, I've only seen the highlights on the weekend
Fuck I love this sort of analysis
Top Ferning 
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MajorRage said in All Blacks 2024:
Granted, I've only seen the highlights on the weekend
Fuck I love this sort of analysis
Top Ferning Means I only missed about 20 mins of in ball play the entire RC …
Feel free to let me know what you disagree with, happy to debate and review where I’m wrong ….
