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2020 Māori All Blacks

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Sports Talk
maori
159 Posts 35 Posters 7.2k Views 3 Watching
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  • kiwiinmelbK kiwiinmelb

    @Yeetyaah said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

    @kiwiinmelb no. Imagine saying all Pākeha are eligible for selection for the English team? It's a completely different country and the languages do have differences.

    So does a Cook Islands Maori have Maori whakapapa ?

    Genuine question because I don’t know , not saying you are wrong by the way.

    My understanding is he must have that plus be a representative of New Zealand rugby union and have Maori whakapapa .

    Very different to English selection

    StargazerS Offline
    StargazerS Offline
    Stargazer
    wrote on last edited by
    #53

    @kiwiinmelb I also don't have the answer, but my guess would be that a player must have New Zealand Maori heritage, not just Maori heritage. I don't think citizenship changes that. Cook Islands and NZ are still different countries, despite Cook Islanders being entitled to NZ citizenship.

    @Yeetyaah said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

    @kiwiinmelb no. Imagine saying all Pākeha are eligible for selection for the English team? It's a completely different country and the languages do have differences.

    Not all Pakeha. Not all of them have English or even UK heritage, but I'm inclined to agree with the "no".

    kiwiinmelbK YeetyaahY 2 Replies Last reply
    0
    • StargazerS Stargazer

      @kiwiinmelb I also don't have the answer, but my guess would be that a player must have New Zealand Maori heritage, not just Maori heritage. I don't think citizenship changes that. Cook Islands and NZ are still different countries, despite Cook Islanders being entitled to NZ citizenship.

      @Yeetyaah said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

      @kiwiinmelb no. Imagine saying all Pākeha are eligible for selection for the English team? It's a completely different country and the languages do have differences.

      Not all Pakeha. Not all of them have English or even UK heritage, but I'm inclined to agree with the "no".

      kiwiinmelbK Offline
      kiwiinmelbK Offline
      kiwiinmelb
      wrote on last edited by
      #54

      @Stargazer said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

      @kiwiinmelb I also don't have the answer, but my guess would be that a player must have New Zealand Maori heritage, not just Maori heritage. I don't think citizenship changes that. Cook Islands and NZ are still different countries, despite Cook Islanders being entitled to NZ citizenship.

      @Yeetyaah said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

      @kiwiinmelb no. Imagine saying all Pākeha are eligible for selection for the English team? It's a completely different country and the languages do have differences.

      Not all Pakeha. Not all of them have English or even UK heritage, but I'm inclined to agree with the "no".

      yep get that part on the citizenship , so I guess it comes down to the genealogy if the player was NZ qualified , and you are probably right

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • BovidaeB Offline
        BovidaeB Offline
        Bovidae
        wrote on last edited by
        #55

        Most Cook Island Maori live in NZ, so there will be a lot of players with mixed Maori ancestry.

        1 Reply Last reply
        3
        • StargazerS Offline
          StargazerS Offline
          Stargazer
          wrote on last edited by
          #56

          By the way, I'm surprised that David Havili isn't in this squad.

          N 1 Reply Last reply
          1
          • BovidaeB Offline
            BovidaeB Offline
            Bovidae
            wrote on last edited by
            #57

            Some players might be unavailable. AJ Lam and Mark Telea not there. Sione Havili is also a notable omission.

            1 Reply Last reply
            2
            • StargazerS Stargazer

              @kiwiinmelb I also don't have the answer, but my guess would be that a player must have New Zealand Maori heritage, not just Maori heritage. I don't think citizenship changes that. Cook Islands and NZ are still different countries, despite Cook Islanders being entitled to NZ citizenship.

              @Yeetyaah said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

              @kiwiinmelb no. Imagine saying all Pākeha are eligible for selection for the English team? It's a completely different country and the languages do have differences.

              Not all Pakeha. Not all of them have English or even UK heritage, but I'm inclined to agree with the "no".

              YeetyaahY Offline
              YeetyaahY Offline
              Yeetyaah
              wrote on last edited by
              #58

              @Stargazer said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

              Not all Pakeha. Not all of them have English or even UK heritage

              Part of my point.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • KiwiwombleK Offline
                KiwiwombleK Offline
                Kiwiwomble
                wrote on last edited by
                #59

                pretty sweet jersey

                alt text

                1 Reply Last reply
                4
                • KiwiMurphK Offline
                  KiwiMurphK Offline
                  KiwiMurph
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #60

                  at least it won't clash.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  1
                  • kiwiinmelbK kiwiinmelb

                    @Yeetyaah said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                    @kiwiinmelb no. Imagine saying all Pākeha are eligible for selection for the English team? It's a completely different country and the languages do have differences.

                    So does a Cook Islands Maori have Maori whakapapa ?

                    Genuine question because I don’t know , not saying you are wrong by the way.

                    My understanding is he must have that plus be a representative of New Zealand rugby union and have Maori whakapapa .

                    Very different to English selection

                    NepiaN Offline
                    NepiaN Offline
                    Nepia
                    wrote on last edited by Nepia
                    #61

                    @kiwiinmelb said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                    @Yeetyaah said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                    @kiwiinmelb no. Imagine saying all Pākeha are eligible for selection for the English team? It's a completely different country and the languages do have differences.

                    So does a Cook Islands Maori have Maori whakapapa ?

                    Genuine question because I don’t know , not saying you are wrong by the way.

                    My understanding is he must have that plus be a representative of New Zealand rugby union and have Maori whakapapa .

                    Very different to English selection

                    As @Stargazer notes - no. Don't let the term 'Maori' fool you, best just to think of them as Cook Islanders/Cookies, like Samoans and Tongans.

                    The only way they're eligible for the NZ Maori team is if they have NZ Maori whakapapa as well.

                    nostrildamusN 1 Reply Last reply
                    2
                    • StargazerS Stargazer

                      So we can scratch Leni Apisai and Josh Ioane from the list of potential Maori All Blacks for this game.

                      NepiaN Offline
                      NepiaN Offline
                      Nepia
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #62

                      @Stargazer said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                      So we can scratch Leni Apisai and Josh Ioane from the list of potential Maori All Blacks for this game.

                      I wonder if they got to choose or if they were assigned one squad or the other?

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • G Offline
                        G Offline
                        Gunner
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #63

                        That's a bloody good Pacifica team they've put together!!!

                        It's a wonder that they don't also pick a 'NZ European' or 'safe skinny white boy' team to give the Maori All Blacks another game.... probably don't want to risk being seen as racist though huh?

                        NepiaN 1 Reply Last reply
                        2
                        • StargazerS Stargazer

                          @bobily2

                          His Wellington profile doesn't provide any info. On his Highlanders profile (in the video), he says that he's from Raratonga, Cook Islands, but that he grew up in Auckland.
                          On his Facebook profile, home is Cook Islands.
                          On his Instagram profile, he only has the Cook Island flag.

                          I haven't been able to find an official profile (from a team or his) that says he's (NZ) Maori.
                          I guess we'll have to wait and see.

                          HigginsH Offline
                          HigginsH Offline
                          Higgins
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #64

                          @Stargazer said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                          @bobily2

                          His Wellington profile doesn't provide any info. On his Highlanders profile (in the video), he says that he's from Raratonga, Cook Islands, but that he grew up in Auckland.
                          On his Facebook profile, home is Cook Islands.
                          On his Instagram profile, he only has the Cook Island flag.

                          I haven't been able to find an official profile (from a team or his) that says he's (NZ) Maori.
                          I guess we'll have to wait and see.

                          Checked with my Rarotongan flatmate last night and he has recanted on TBN's eligibility just a smidgeon. He did say that TBN's great grandfather (or probably great great grandfather) was a NZ Maori that went to the Cook Islands in the late 1800s/early 1900s to help draft some sort of legal document assigning the Cook Islands people to the right to have NZ Citizenship etc. When questioned why, he (my flatmate is currently doing some sort of doctorate on the history of the Cook Islands) did say that the NZ Maori language and the CI native language is quite similar. So there it is TBN does have some NZ Maori heritage if my mate is to be believed.

                          taniwharugbyT 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • G Gunner

                            That's a bloody good Pacifica team they've put together!!!

                            It's a wonder that they don't also pick a 'NZ European' or 'safe skinny white boy' team to give the Maori All Blacks another game.... probably don't want to risk being seen as racist though huh?

                            NepiaN Offline
                            NepiaN Offline
                            Nepia
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #65

                            @Gunner said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                            That's a bloody good Pacifica team they've put together!!!

                            It's a wonder that they don't also pick a 'NZ European' or 'safe skinny white boy' team to give the Maori All Blacks another game.... probably don't want to risk being seen as racist though huh?

                            I'd like to see a Non Maori/PI team to complete as well - I'm not sure why it would be seen as anymore "racist" than the current teams. Hell, they could just call it a NZ Baabaas team?

                            G 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • HigginsH Higgins

                              @Stargazer said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                              @bobily2

                              His Wellington profile doesn't provide any info. On his Highlanders profile (in the video), he says that he's from Raratonga, Cook Islands, but that he grew up in Auckland.
                              On his Facebook profile, home is Cook Islands.
                              On his Instagram profile, he only has the Cook Island flag.

                              I haven't been able to find an official profile (from a team or his) that says he's (NZ) Maori.
                              I guess we'll have to wait and see.

                              Checked with my Rarotongan flatmate last night and he has recanted on TBN's eligibility just a smidgeon. He did say that TBN's great grandfather (or probably great great grandfather) was a NZ Maori that went to the Cook Islands in the late 1800s/early 1900s to help draft some sort of legal document assigning the Cook Islands people to the right to have NZ Citizenship etc. When questioned why, he (my flatmate is currently doing some sort of doctorate on the history of the Cook Islands) did say that the NZ Maori language and the CI native language is quite similar. So there it is TBN does have some NZ Maori heritage if my mate is to be believed.

                              taniwharugbyT Offline
                              taniwharugbyT Offline
                              taniwharugby
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #66

                              @Higgins said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                              So there it is TBN does have some NZ Maori heritage if my mate is to be believed.

                              think they still need to be able to prove thier Whakapapa though, Ranger's whanau had claimed Maori heritage but I believe they couldnt prove it, making him ineligible.

                              NepiaN 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • taniwharugbyT taniwharugby

                                @Higgins said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                                So there it is TBN does have some NZ Maori heritage if my mate is to be believed.

                                think they still need to be able to prove thier Whakapapa though, Ranger's whanau had claimed Maori heritage but I believe they couldnt prove it, making him ineligible.

                                NepiaN Offline
                                NepiaN Offline
                                Nepia
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #67

                                @taniwharugby said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                                @Higgins said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                                So there it is TBN does have some NZ Maori heritage if my mate is to be believed.

                                think they still need to be able to prove thier Whakapapa though, Ranger's whanau had claimed Maori heritage but I believe they couldnt prove it, making him ineligible.

                                If they know who the great great grandfather is then it should be pretty easy to prove.

                                Was Ranger's issue that they don't know his real parentage?

                                taniwharugbyT 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • NepiaN Nepia

                                  @taniwharugby said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                                  @Higgins said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                                  So there it is TBN does have some NZ Maori heritage if my mate is to be believed.

                                  think they still need to be able to prove thier Whakapapa though, Ranger's whanau had claimed Maori heritage but I believe they couldnt prove it, making him ineligible.

                                  If they know who the great great grandfather is then it should be pretty easy to prove.

                                  Was Ranger's issue that they don't know his real parentage?

                                  taniwharugbyT Offline
                                  taniwharugbyT Offline
                                  taniwharugby
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #68

                                  @Nepia said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                                  Ranger's issue that they don't know his real parentage?

                                  no idea, was years back, just remember reading that it was all go but then they couldnt prove his Whakapapa.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • NepiaN Nepia

                                    @Gunner said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                                    That's a bloody good Pacifica team they've put together!!!

                                    It's a wonder that they don't also pick a 'NZ European' or 'safe skinny white boy' team to give the Maori All Blacks another game.... probably don't want to risk being seen as racist though huh?

                                    I'd like to see a Non Maori/PI team to complete as well - I'm not sure why it would be seen as anymore "racist" than the current teams. Hell, they could just call it a NZ Baabaas team?

                                    G Offline
                                    G Offline
                                    Gunner
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #69

                                    @Nepia said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                                    @Gunner said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                                    That's a bloody good Pacifica team they've put together!!!

                                    It's a wonder that they don't also pick a 'NZ European' or 'safe skinny white boy' team to give the Maori All Blacks another game.... probably don't want to risk being seen as racist though huh?

                                    I'd like to see a Non Maori/PI team to complete as well - I'm not sure why it would be seen as anymore "racist" than the current teams. Hell, they could just call it a NZ Baabaas team?

                                    My comment about being racist was a bit tongue in cheek 😉

                                    But seriously though, why not?

                                    Who would make that team?
                                    Contenders that I can quickly think of:

                                    1. ????? Whoppa
                                    2. Coltman/Olsen
                                    3. ????? The long haired Otago prop
                                    4. Goodhue/Dickson
                                    5. Pierce
                                    6. Robinson
                                    7. Hunt/Boshier
                                    8. Matich
                                    9. Christie/Roe
                                    10. Smith/Gatland
                                    11. Gregory
                                    12. Collins
                                    13. Hyland

                                    I'll be missing some obvious choices, as I say that was very quickly off the top of my head (and probably biased towards Northland)

                                    NepiaN BovidaeB 2 Replies Last reply
                                    0
                                    • StargazerS Stargazer

                                      By the way, I'm surprised that David Havili isn't in this squad.

                                      N Offline
                                      N Offline
                                      Nogusta
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #70

                                      @Stargazer maybe because hes played for the ABS?

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • G Gunner

                                        @Nepia said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                                        @Gunner said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:

                                        That's a bloody good Pacifica team they've put together!!!

                                        It's a wonder that they don't also pick a 'NZ European' or 'safe skinny white boy' team to give the Maori All Blacks another game.... probably don't want to risk being seen as racist though huh?

                                        I'd like to see a Non Maori/PI team to complete as well - I'm not sure why it would be seen as anymore "racist" than the current teams. Hell, they could just call it a NZ Baabaas team?

                                        My comment about being racist was a bit tongue in cheek 😉

                                        But seriously though, why not?

                                        Who would make that team?
                                        Contenders that I can quickly think of:

                                        1. ????? Whoppa
                                        2. Coltman/Olsen
                                        3. ????? The long haired Otago prop
                                        4. Goodhue/Dickson
                                        5. Pierce
                                        6. Robinson
                                        7. Hunt/Boshier
                                        8. Matich
                                        9. Christie/Roe
                                        10. Smith/Gatland
                                        11. Gregory
                                        12. Collins
                                        13. Hyland

                                        I'll be missing some obvious choices, as I say that was very quickly off the top of my head (and probably biased towards Northland)

                                        NepiaN Offline
                                        NepiaN Offline
                                        Nepia
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #71

                                        @Gunner There’s also players of mixed Maori/PI and pakeha descent as well who haven’t made either of those teams.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        2
                                        • StargazerS Offline
                                          StargazerS Offline
                                          Stargazer
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #72

                                          Riccitelli, Goosen, David Havili, Finlay Christie, Quinten Strange, Gareth Evans, Bryn Evans, Luke Romano, etc etc

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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