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Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc

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  • Victor MeldrewV Victor Meldrew

    @kiwimurph

    It's a pretty fucking low bar Foster has set. In two years he has lost to Aus, Argie, South Africa, Ireland, France. Two of those losses in neutral venues.

    So you are saying the next coach should get automatically sacked if loses to these countries and loses two in neutral venues?

    Sounds a bit formulaic to me and doesn't take into account underlying issues, but at least it's consistent.

    KiwiMurphK Offline
    KiwiMurphK Offline
    KiwiMurph
    wrote on last edited by
    #474

    @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

    @kiwimurph

    It's a pretty fucking low bar Foster has set. In two years he has lost to Aus, Argie, South Africa, Ireland, France. Two of those losses in neutral venues.

    So you are saying the next coach should get automatically sacked if loses to these countries and loses two in neutral venues?

    Sounds a bit formulaic to me and doesn't take into account underlying issues, but at least it's consistent.

    Here's the thing. I'd rather swap coaches with the potential of getting the same results than carry on with the definition of insanity.

    Victor MeldrewV 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • KiwiMurphK KiwiMurph

      @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

      @kiwimurph

      It's a pretty fucking low bar Foster has set. In two years he has lost to Aus, Argie, South Africa, Ireland, France. Two of those losses in neutral venues.

      So you are saying the next coach should get automatically sacked if loses to these countries and loses two in neutral venues?

      Sounds a bit formulaic to me and doesn't take into account underlying issues, but at least it's consistent.

      Here's the thing. I'd rather swap coaches with the potential of getting the same results than carry on with the definition of insanity.

      Victor MeldrewV Away
      Victor MeldrewV Away
      Victor Meldrew
      wrote on last edited by
      #475

      @kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

      @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

      @kiwimurph

      It's a pretty fucking low bar Foster has set. In two years he has lost to Aus, Argie, South Africa, Ireland, France. Two of those losses in neutral venues.

      So you are saying the next coach should get automatically sacked if loses to these countries and loses two in neutral venues?

      Sounds a bit formulaic to me and doesn't take into account underlying issues, but at least it's consistent.

      Here's the thing. I'd rather swap coaches with the potential of getting the same results than carry on with the definition of insanity.

      You'd be happy to keep a coach with just as bad a record as Foster after two years on the basis of "potential"?

      Seriously?

      KiwiMurphK 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • BerniesCornerB BerniesCorner

        @victor-meldrew I get that but I dont think the current players are playing well as a team. There's still a lot of talent there.

        Victor MeldrewV Away
        Victor MeldrewV Away
        Victor Meldrew
        wrote on last edited by
        #476

        @berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

        @victor-meldrew I get that but I dont think the current players are playing well as a team. There's still a lot of talent there.

        Absolutely. Been the same since 2016 - been banging on about that for ages

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • Victor MeldrewV Victor Meldrew

          @kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

          @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

          @kiwimurph

          It's a pretty fucking low bar Foster has set. In two years he has lost to Aus, Argie, South Africa, Ireland, France. Two of those losses in neutral venues.

          So you are saying the next coach should get automatically sacked if loses to these countries and loses two in neutral venues?

          Sounds a bit formulaic to me and doesn't take into account underlying issues, but at least it's consistent.

          Here's the thing. I'd rather swap coaches with the potential of getting the same results than carry on with the definition of insanity.

          You'd be happy to keep a coach with just as bad a record as Foster after two years on the basis of "potential"?

          Seriously?

          KiwiMurphK Offline
          KiwiMurphK Offline
          KiwiMurph
          wrote on last edited by KiwiMurph
          #477

          @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

          @kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

          @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

          @kiwimurph

          It's a pretty fucking low bar Foster has set. In two years he has lost to Aus, Argie, South Africa, Ireland, France. Two of those losses in neutral venues.

          So you are saying the next coach should get automatically sacked if loses to these countries and loses two in neutral venues?

          Sounds a bit formulaic to me and doesn't take into account underlying issues, but at least it's consistent.

          Here's the thing. I'd rather swap coaches with the potential of getting the same results than carry on with the definition of insanity.

          You'd be happy to keep a coach with just as bad a record as Foster after two years on the basis of "potential"?

          Seriously?

          No that's not what I'm saying.

          What i'm saying is - there's the potential (or risk) that the new coach is going to have just as bad a run of results as Foster. I'd rather take that risk than stick with Foster.

          BerniesCornerB Victor MeldrewV 2 Replies Last reply
          1
          • KiwiMurphK KiwiMurph

            @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

            @kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

            @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

            @kiwimurph

            It's a pretty fucking low bar Foster has set. In two years he has lost to Aus, Argie, South Africa, Ireland, France. Two of those losses in neutral venues.

            So you are saying the next coach should get automatically sacked if loses to these countries and loses two in neutral venues?

            Sounds a bit formulaic to me and doesn't take into account underlying issues, but at least it's consistent.

            Here's the thing. I'd rather swap coaches with the potential of getting the same results than carry on with the definition of insanity.

            You'd be happy to keep a coach with just as bad a record as Foster after two years on the basis of "potential"?

            Seriously?

            No that's not what I'm saying.

            What i'm saying is - there's the potential (or risk) that the new coach is going to have just as bad a run of results as Foster. I'd rather take that risk than stick with Foster.

            BerniesCornerB Offline
            BerniesCornerB Offline
            BerniesCorner
            wrote on last edited by
            #478

            @kiwimurph In other words it's time for someone else

            KiwiMurphK 1 Reply Last reply
            1
            • BerniesCornerB BerniesCorner

              @kiwimurph In other words it's time for someone else

              KiwiMurphK Offline
              KiwiMurphK Offline
              KiwiMurph
              wrote on last edited by
              #479

              @berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

              @kiwimurph In other words it's time for someone else

              Yes. I fail to see the value in continuinty when continuity gets us the same results that we would expect any other candidate to deliver.

              1 Reply Last reply
              2
              • nostrildamusN nostrildamus

                @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                @nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                Well it might be an idea to have KPI with a high-paying leadership position of national importance so I'd say yes, if he loses as often as Foster and doesn't develop the team he should go too.

                I agree with your consistency, but KPI's are very crude and the NZRFU have to look at a heck of lot more to look at and fix that just the AB coaches record.

                how about gate takings if the fans stop supporting the players by attending? I'm not saying it will happen but it might.

                Edit: KPI are crude, sure, so what highly sophisticated criteria did NZ Rugby (NZRU) use then?

                Here is part of the Head Coach JD for Moana Pasifika

                https://www.nzrugby.co.nz/assets/Moana-Pasifika-Head-Coach-JD-2021.pdf

                Reporting to the General Manager, and ultimately the Moana Pasifika Board, you will be responsible for coaching the team on and off the field to a standard of excellence that will compete at Super Rugby level, enhancing the reputation of the Team, the Super Rugby competition, and Pacific Island rugby.
                To lead the Moana Pasifika Team (Team) players and coaches, to maximise their performance in all aspects of the game.
                In partnership with the General Manager and Head of Athletic Performance & Pathways, the Head Coach will support the development and delivery of the High-Performance environment with a multidisciplinary team that provides a best practise for Players to develop and reach their fullest potential
                

                Now if the AB coach JD is similar, I don't see much nuance or sophistication.

                sparkyS Offline
                sparkyS Offline
                sparky
                wrote on last edited by sparky
                #480

                @nostrildamus A lot of that is waffle. Coaching is about performances and winning. I hope part of the job expectation for the All Blacks Head Coach is to win lots of silverware and be very competitive indeed at World Cups.

                Victor MeldrewV 1 Reply Last reply
                1
                • KiwiMurphK KiwiMurph

                  @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                  @kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                  @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                  @kiwimurph

                  It's a pretty fucking low bar Foster has set. In two years he has lost to Aus, Argie, South Africa, Ireland, France. Two of those losses in neutral venues.

                  So you are saying the next coach should get automatically sacked if loses to these countries and loses two in neutral venues?

                  Sounds a bit formulaic to me and doesn't take into account underlying issues, but at least it's consistent.

                  Here's the thing. I'd rather swap coaches with the potential of getting the same results than carry on with the definition of insanity.

                  You'd be happy to keep a coach with just as bad a record as Foster after two years on the basis of "potential"?

                  Seriously?

                  No that's not what I'm saying.

                  What i'm saying is - there's the potential (or risk) that the new coach is going to have just as bad a run of results as Foster. I'd rather take that risk than stick with Foster.

                  Victor MeldrewV Away
                  Victor MeldrewV Away
                  Victor Meldrew
                  wrote on last edited by Victor Meldrew
                  #481

                  @kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                  @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                  @kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                  @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                  @kiwimurph

                  It's a pretty fucking low bar Foster has set. In two years he has lost to Aus, Argie, South Africa, Ireland, France. Two of those losses in neutral venues.

                  So you are saying the next coach should get automatically sacked if loses to these countries and loses two in neutral venues?

                  Sounds a bit formulaic to me and doesn't take into account underlying issues, but at least it's consistent.

                  Here's the thing. I'd rather swap coaches with the potential of getting the same results than carry on with the definition of insanity.

                  You'd be happy to keep a coach with just as bad a record as Foster after two years on the basis of "potential"?

                  Seriously?

                  No that's not what I'm saying.

                  What i'm saying is - there's the potential (or risk) that the new coach is going to have just as bad a run of results as Foster. I'd rather take that risk than stick with Foster.

                  And you'd want him sacked immediately if he was as bad as Foster after just under 2 years, right?

                  Wouldn't it be better to look at reducing the underlying causes of those risks and increasing the potential for success now than after a couple of years when we might have to sack the coach (again)?

                  KiwiMurphK 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • sparkyS sparky

                    @nostrildamus A lot of that is waffle. Coaching is about performances and winning. I hope part of the job expectation for the All Blacks Head Coach is to win lots of silverware and be very competitive indeed at World Cups.

                    Victor MeldrewV Away
                    Victor MeldrewV Away
                    Victor Meldrew
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #482

                    @sparky said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                    @nostrildamus A lot of that is waffle. Coaching is about performances and winning. I hope part of the job expectation for the All Blacks Head Coach is to win lots of silverware and be very competitive indeed at World Cups.

                    If Foster had a JD as meaningless at the one for the Pasifika coach, then I'd give swinging the axe a wee bit higher than Foster priority.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    1
                    • TimT Tim

                      @tewaio In 2004 Henry came in and said "we need a revolution in how we play, like after the 68 Lions tour". We changed our forward play and everything else. Since 2015, Hansen and his descendants have been so arrogant about playing like we own the ball and don't have to adjust. It's infuriating.

                      Victor MeldrewV Away
                      Victor MeldrewV Away
                      Victor Meldrew
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #483

                      @tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                      @tewaio In 2004 Henry came in and said "we need a revolution in how we play, like after the 68 Lions tour". We changed our forward play and everything else. Since 2015, Hansen and his descendants have been so arrogant about playing like we own the ball and don't have to adjust. It's infuriating.

                      Don't you mean the '71 Lions tour of NZ?

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • Victor MeldrewV Victor Meldrew

                        @junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                        @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                        @mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                        @victor-meldrew
                        Not a quick fix but a necessary one. Ole & Foz = jobs for the boys, no track record to back it up, wheels fell off, sacked and should be sacked.

                        And like Man U, we say that about the next coach (like Mourhino, with a great track record), and the one after that, and the one after that?

                        How many years of coach blamings and sackings do you think we need before we start asking if there's underlying problems to be addressed?

                        You make good points, but one thing I will say is that, because of the top-down nature of NZ rugby, the AB coach can often have a big say in the development at the lower levels of the game. Is it any coincidence that post-2004, we had a pipeline of good quality front rowers after GH had identified that as a work on? Or how after 2009, we had a generation of wingers and full backs who were all excellent under the high ball? It's because of the weaknesses in those areas identified by GH at the top level that coaches at all levels below that sought to develop the next generation that was strong in those areas.

                        I agree 100%.

                        What was the time-lag between GH saying we needed good props and getting them in '04. and the same for the wingers in '09?

                        Is the co-ordination between the NZRFU, AB coaching staff & lower levels working properly? Because unless it is working well, no change of coach will fix the problems

                        S Offline
                        S Offline
                        stodders
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #484

                        @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                        @junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                        @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                        @mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                        @victor-meldrew
                        Not a quick fix but a necessary one. Ole & Foz = jobs for the boys, no track record to back it up, wheels fell off, sacked and should be sacked.

                        And like Man U, we say that about the next coach (like Mourhino, with a great track record), and the one after that, and the one after that?

                        How many years of coach blamings and sackings do you think we need before we start asking if there's underlying problems to be addressed?

                        You make good points, but one thing I will say is that, because of the top-down nature of NZ rugby, the AB coach can often have a big say in the development at the lower levels of the game. Is it any coincidence that post-2004, we had a pipeline of good quality front rowers after GH had identified that as a work on? Or how after 2009, we had a generation of wingers and full backs who were all excellent under the high ball? It's because of the weaknesses in those areas identified by GH at the top level that coaches at all levels below that sought to develop the next generation that was strong in those areas.

                        I agree 100%.

                        What was the time-lag between GH saying we needed good props and getting them in '04. and the same for the wingers in '09?

                        Is the co-ordination between the NZRFU, AB coaching staff & lower levels working properly? Because unless it is working well, no change of coach will fix the problems

                        GH's found some solutions to his winger problem by the time the WC 2011 came around. By then, he'd changed a centre into a wing (Kahui), had recently unearthed a new wing (Jane) and a new fullback had burst onto the scene (Dagg). He identified what he wanted and either coached an existing player to suit his gameplan or promoted players with the attributes he wanted to see.

                        Victor MeldrewV 1 Reply Last reply
                        1
                        • BerniesCornerB BerniesCorner

                          @victor-meldrew I get that but I dont think the current players are playing well as a team. There's still a lot of talent there.

                          S Offline
                          S Offline
                          stodders
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #485

                          @berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                          @victor-meldrew I get that but I dont think the current players are playing well as a team. There's still a lot of talent there.

                          Agree with this. The team is capable of quality moments. They are just v inconsistent.

                          Victor MeldrewV 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • KiwiMurphK KiwiMurph

                            @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                            @kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                            @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                            @berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                            @victor-meldrew Razor has cleaned up in the SR over a long period of time.
                            Obviously clear game plans, good man management and eye for detail.
                            You heard the oft repeated phrase 'hasnt got international coaching experience'. This is rubbish.
                            Well now we've got mediocre results, losing to teams like never before, and the management have untold international experience.

                            So what do we do if and/or when when Razor, like Mourhino with his great track record, doesn't turn out to be a messiah?

                            If Razor's win % isn't better than Foster's after 2 years, do we think we should sack him as well?

                            This sounds like the argument for not demoting Tana and replacing him with Leon.....

                            So if Razor (or another coach) produces results as bad as or worse that Foster's after 2 years, we just shrug our shoulders as he isn't called Ian Foster?

                            It's a pretty fucking low bar Foster has set. In two years he has lost to Aus, Argie, South Africa, Ireland, France. Two of those losses in neutral venues.

                            S Offline
                            S Offline
                            stodders
                            wrote on last edited by stodders
                            #486

                            @kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                            @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                            @kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                            @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                            @berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                            @victor-meldrew Razor has cleaned up in the SR over a long period of time.
                            Obviously clear game plans, good man management and eye for detail.
                            You heard the oft repeated phrase 'hasnt got international coaching experience'. This is rubbish.
                            Well now we've got mediocre results, losing to teams like never before, and the management have untold international experience.

                            So what do we do if and/or when when Razor, like Mourhino with his great track record, doesn't turn out to be a messiah?

                            If Razor's win % isn't better than Foster's after 2 years, do we think we should sack him as well?

                            This sounds like the argument for not demoting Tana and replacing him with Leon.....

                            So if Razor (or another coach) produces results as bad as or worse that Foster's after 2 years, we just shrug our shoulders as he isn't called Ian Foster?

                            It's a pretty fucking low bar Foster has set. In two years he has lost to Aus, Argie, South Africa, Ireland, France. Two of those losses in neutral venues.

                            South Africa have been good for 3-4 years now. They are the ABs greatest foe and have never been scared to take them on.

                            The Oz and Argentina losses last year were the worst performances. ABs rectified those results by sweeping them this year.

                            Ireland and France are both strong right now. Especially at home in front of a vocal fanbase.

                            The key for me now will be if Ireland rock up next year and win a series. That would be unthinkable. Last team to beat NZ in a home test series (more than a one-off test)? France 94 no? Then again, some good came out of that series loss!!

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            2
                            • S stodders

                              @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                              @junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                              @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                              @mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                              @victor-meldrew
                              Not a quick fix but a necessary one. Ole & Foz = jobs for the boys, no track record to back it up, wheels fell off, sacked and should be sacked.

                              And like Man U, we say that about the next coach (like Mourhino, with a great track record), and the one after that, and the one after that?

                              How many years of coach blamings and sackings do you think we need before we start asking if there's underlying problems to be addressed?

                              You make good points, but one thing I will say is that, because of the top-down nature of NZ rugby, the AB coach can often have a big say in the development at the lower levels of the game. Is it any coincidence that post-2004, we had a pipeline of good quality front rowers after GH had identified that as a work on? Or how after 2009, we had a generation of wingers and full backs who were all excellent under the high ball? It's because of the weaknesses in those areas identified by GH at the top level that coaches at all levels below that sought to develop the next generation that was strong in those areas.

                              I agree 100%.

                              What was the time-lag between GH saying we needed good props and getting them in '04. and the same for the wingers in '09?

                              Is the co-ordination between the NZRFU, AB coaching staff & lower levels working properly? Because unless it is working well, no change of coach will fix the problems

                              GH's found some solutions to his winger problem by the time the WC 2011 came around. By then, he'd changed a centre into a wing (Kahui), had recently unearthed a new wing (Jane) and a new fullback had burst onto the scene (Dagg). He identified what he wanted and either coached an existing player to suit his gameplan or promoted players with the attributes he wanted to see.

                              Victor MeldrewV Away
                              Victor MeldrewV Away
                              Victor Meldrew
                              wrote on last edited by Victor Meldrew
                              #487

                              @stodders

                              GH's found some solutions to his winger problem by the time the WC 2011 came around. By then, he'd changed a centre into a wing (Kahui), had recently unearthed a new wing (Jane) and a new fullback had burst onto the scene (Dagg). He identified what he wanted and either coached an existing player to suit his gameplan or promoted players with the attributes he wanted to see.

                              So a bit like Foster turning a fullback into a world-class wing (Jordan) and Caleb Clarke bursting onto the scene, before his injury, and coaching Akira to do what he wanted him to do......

                              S 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • S stodders

                                @berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                                @victor-meldrew I get that but I dont think the current players are playing well as a team. There's still a lot of talent there.

                                Agree with this. The team is capable of quality moments. They are just v inconsistent.

                                Victor MeldrewV Away
                                Victor MeldrewV Away
                                Victor Meldrew
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #488

                                @stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                                @berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                                @victor-meldrew I get that but I dont think the current players are playing well as a team. There's still a lot of talent there.

                                Agree with this. The team is capable of quality moments. They are just v inconsistent.

                                It's been the same since 2017. The question is why.

                                Too much rugby? Team culture? Not enough playing under pressure in SR? Basic skills slipping? On-field leadership? Mental skills missing?

                                Jailbreak7J 1 Reply Last reply
                                1
                                • Victor MeldrewV Victor Meldrew

                                  @stodders

                                  GH's found some solutions to his winger problem by the time the WC 2011 came around. By then, he'd changed a centre into a wing (Kahui), had recently unearthed a new wing (Jane) and a new fullback had burst onto the scene (Dagg). He identified what he wanted and either coached an existing player to suit his gameplan or promoted players with the attributes he wanted to see.

                                  So a bit like Foster turning a fullback into a world-class wing (Jordan) and Caleb Clarke bursting onto the scene, before his injury, and coaching Akira to do what he wanted him to do......

                                  S Offline
                                  S Offline
                                  stodders
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #489

                                  @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                                  @stodders

                                  GH's found some solutions to his winger problem by the time the WC 2011 came around. By then, he'd changed a centre into a wing (Kahui), had recently unearthed a new wing (Jane) and a new fullback had burst onto the scene (Dagg). He identified what he wanted and either coached an existing player to suit his gameplan or promoted players with the attributes he wanted to see.

                                  So a bit like Foster turning a fullback into a world-class wing (Jordan) and Caleb Clarke bursting onto the scene, before his injury, and coaching Akira to do what he wanted him to do......

                                  Yep. Foster hasn't been all bad.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • TimT Tim

                                    @tewaio In 2004 Henry came in and said "we need a revolution in how we play, like after the 68 Lions tour". We changed our forward play and everything else. Since 2015, Hansen and his descendants have been so arrogant about playing like we own the ball and don't have to adjust. It's infuriating.

                                    Victor MeldrewV Away
                                    Victor MeldrewV Away
                                    Victor Meldrew
                                    wrote on last edited by Victor Meldrew
                                    #490

                                    @tim

                                    @tewaio In 2004 Henry came in and said "we need a revolution in how we play, like after the 68 Lions tour". We changed our forward play and everything else. Since 2015, Hansen and his descendants have been so arrogant about playing like we own the ball and don't have to adjust. It's infuriating.

                                    That change after the '71 Lions loss took nearly a decade though.

                                    In the ancient 70's the AB's went to shit very quickly after being unbeatable for 8 years (3 losses in that time) and losing a series in '71 to the Lions. Huge public clamour to sack the coach and get someone untainted by the past who would get a grip and restore the fortunes rather than look at what had gone wrong with AB rugby. Wiser heads were already looking at the state of the game and how it was being played and started to emulate the thinking of Carwyn James and other NH coaches - but were pretty much ignored by the conservative NZRFU and public.

                                    They appointed a proven winner -Bob Duff (ironically from Canterbury). He presided for two years over a disastrous tour to Europe and a home loss to England (unthinkable at the time). He was replaced by another proven winner who was even worse at winning. Though he understood the need to change, it was pretty much forced on him in '77. The next coach was a new thinker who transformed the team and the ABs won their first NH Grand Slam ever in '78

                                    It took nearly 7 years for the AB's to get back to winning ways, accept that rugby had to change and NZ rugby & public to move away from the "sack the coach as we should always win" mentality. Fuck it was an awful time for an NZ Rugby fan.

                                    The pain was worth it, but could have been a heck of a lot less if there's been some actual thinking about problems across the piece and were a little more humble

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    2
                                    • Victor MeldrewV Victor Meldrew

                                      @stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                                      @berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                                      @victor-meldrew I get that but I dont think the current players are playing well as a team. There's still a lot of talent there.

                                      Agree with this. The team is capable of quality moments. They are just v inconsistent.

                                      It's been the same since 2017. The question is why.

                                      Too much rugby? Team culture? Not enough playing under pressure in SR? Basic skills slipping? On-field leadership? Mental skills missing?

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                                      Jailbreak7
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #491

                                      @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                                      @stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                                      @berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                                      @victor-meldrew I get that but I dont think the current players are playing well as a team. There's still a lot of talent there.

                                      Agree with this. The team is capable of quality moments. They are just v inconsistent.

                                      It's been the same since 2017. The question is why.

                                      Too much rugby? Team culture? Not enough playing under pressure in SR? Basic skills slipping? On-field leadership? Mental skills missing?

                                      Answer - All of the above.
                                      Who is teaching them the value of the jersey they wear? And the silver fern next to their hearts? It seemed like that was sadly lacking yesterday.
                                      Its more than just that though. I think we need to play NH teams more often. I think we are too one-dimensional in our attack, out outlook and hell just about everything. We were beaten all ends up by Ireland and France - and by all accounts England would have wiped the floor with us too.
                                      We need to get smarter and inject ome different ways of thinking, coaching and playing by 2023 FFS.

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                                        cgrant
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #492

                                        Those who are citing Ngatai or Laumape as potential Jesuses have not watched them in the Top 14 this year. They have been meh at best.

                                        A mofitzy_M MN5M Billy TellB Victor MeldrewV 5 Replies Last reply
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                                        • C cgrant

                                          Those who are citing Ngatai or Laumape as potential Jesuses have not watched them in the Top 14 this year. They have been meh at best.

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                                          akan004
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #493

                                          @cgrant said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

                                          Those who are citing Ngatai or Laumape as potential Jesuses have not watched them in the Top 14 this year. They have been meh at best.

                                          Laumape is definitely not the answer. He has never impressed at test level. Got his arse handed to him by an average Aussie midfield in Brisbane last year.

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