All Blacks 2022
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I think Akira and Ardie’s play is part of the problem. So much of what they do seems so individual. They make a good run - where’s the support to take an offload or clean? They make a great tackle or hold up, where’s the support to drive over the tackle?
We see glimpses of it, all too rare from my viewing. Most of their individual good work becomes fruitless and just that - individual. For fans in the post mortem we point to stats and this and that on those individuals as part of a bunkering down exercise
For me what it boils down to is the trust within the group seems fractured from a playing perspective. I’m not talking about getting along and being best buds and all that, but respect for team mate and what they bring, understanding of their strengths and even their vulnerabilities. Knowing what they do in certain situations.
There was a passage where we had made a decent albeit a little disjointed phase play up and into our 22. After several phases (without an error) we fanned way too many players out on the left side of the field. Smith clears the ball and we have 4 guys all ready to take it. No decoy runner, just guys waiting to catch it. Cane received it and the defence was able to easily read it and we lost any momentum from the build up.
We’ve lost cohesion.
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@Crucial problem is, why are players getting to the elite level and not having these skills, or needing them refreshed?
As @mariner4life says, is something that is pretty basic, fast feet and timing of the step is important on attack as it is when going in to make a tackle, something you teach kids.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial problem is, why are players getting to the elite level and not having these skills, or needing them refreshed?
As @mariner4life says, is something that is pretty basic, fast feet and timing of the step is important on attack as it is when going in to make a tackle, something you teach kids.
I think you have partly answered your own question. Players that dominate through size/speed rather than technique (before the guns come out I am not targeting Ioane here) don't get coached in these aspects until the need becomes evident as the players understandably keep doing what works for them. The imbalances in our age grade rugby have to be rectified later.
This applies to lots of our game, especially 10s with great speed off the mark and footwork. They almost have to re;earn how to play at higher levels. -
I think Akira and Ardie’s play is part of the problem. So much of what they do seems so individual. They make a good run - where’s the support to take an offload or clean? They make a great tackle or hold up, where’s the support to drive over the tackle?
We see glimpses of it, all too rare from my viewing. Most of their individual good work becomes fruitless and just that - individual. For fans in the post mortem we point to stats and this and that on those individuals as part of a bunkering down exercise
For me what it boils down to is the trust within the group seems fractured from a playing perspective. I’m not talking about getting along and being best buds and all that, but respect for team mate and what they bring, understanding of their strengths and even their vulnerabilities. Knowing what they do in certain situations.
There was a passage where we had made a decent albeit a little disjointed phase play up and into our 22. After several phases (without an error) we fanned way too many players out on the left side of the field. Smith clears the ball and we have 4 guys all ready to take it. No decoy runner, just guys waiting to catch it. Cane received it and the defence was able to easily read it and we lost any momentum from the build up.
We’ve lost cohesion.
@ACT-Crusader that's a pretty good post you sensible bastard
Everything good is individual stuff. Ardie's two tries in the first. Reece's try in the first. Hell, all 3 tries in this test were guys taking it upon themselves to do something amazing.
Is there a sense that no one is willing to do the selfless thing to help the side? I look at Ardie knocking on a couple of times trying a frantic pick and go, rather than just sealing the ball and allowing play to develop elsewhere (he's not the only one, and i don't want to pick holes in a good game, but they were glaring examples of released pressure).
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@ACT-Crusader that's a pretty good post you sensible bastard
Everything good is individual stuff. Ardie's two tries in the first. Reece's try in the first. Hell, all 3 tries in this test were guys taking it upon themselves to do something amazing.
Is there a sense that no one is willing to do the selfless thing to help the side? I look at Ardie knocking on a couple of times trying a frantic pick and go, rather than just sealing the ball and allowing play to develop elsewhere (he's not the only one, and i don't want to pick holes in a good game, but they were glaring examples of released pressure).
@mariner4life some players are obviously feeling the pressure more than others. Senior players most likely.
I doubt Ardie reads the Fern, but if you do uso (that’s my Sonny Bill commentary for the day), you are a hell of an athlete and a smart footy player, but it doesn’t always have to be the big play! And how about a move to 2nd 5
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There was one run by Akira where he attracted three defenders, made ground and got the team moving forwards. Vaai comes in for the cleanout and just falls over and we get turned over.
Our tight forwards are powder puffs.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
There was one run by Akira where he attracted three defenders, made ground and got the team moving forwards. Vaai comes in for the cleanout and just falls over and we get turned over.
Our tight forwards are powder puffs.
I wouldn't say our tight forwards are powder puffs, but our clean out execution in general is woeful. Either go off their feet (falling or flying torpedo), turn up far too late, taking people way beyond what is deemed acceptable and the list goes on. There were a heap of clean outs missed.
Sure the execution is on the players, but this is basic core skills coaching that appears to be missing as it is all to frequent from this current team.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
There was one run by Akira where he attracted three defenders, made ground and got the team moving forwards. Vaai comes in for the cleanout and just falls over and we get turned over.
Our tight forwards are powder puffs.
I wouldn't say our tight forwards are powder puffs, but our clean out execution in general is woeful. Either go off their feet (falling or flying torpedo), turn up far too late, taking people way beyond what is deemed acceptable and the list goes on. There were a heap of clean outs missed.
Sure the execution is on the players, but this is basic core skills coaching that appears to be missing as it is all to frequent from this current team.
@bayimports said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
There was one run by Akira where he attracted three defenders, made ground and got the team moving forwards. Vaai comes in for the cleanout and just falls over and we get turned over.
Our tight forwards are powder puffs.
I wouldn't say our tight forwards are powder puffs, but our clean out execution in general is woeful. Either go off their feet (falling or flying torpedo), turn up far too late, taking people way beyond what is deemed acceptable and the list goes on. There were a heap of clean outs missed.
Sure the execution is on the players, but this is basic core skills coaching that appears to be missing as it is all to frequent from this current team.
Yeah, it's pretty much like the breakdown is not even an afterthought, it's a non-thought and the players have zero idea what to do or who will do it. Hence you get a random coming in flying from nowhere each time, who completely missies anyone anyway and is so inaccurate the ref just ignores him because all he's done is land two metres off to the side of the ruck on the opposition side, where no one is. Then you get a tight forward standing as a pillar to the side of an unprotected ruck, and a back looking, deciding whether they need to clean out, then deciding yes once the opposition have already walked onto our side, running in and immediately going backwards.
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@bayimports said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
There was one run by Akira where he attracted three defenders, made ground and got the team moving forwards. Vaai comes in for the cleanout and just falls over and we get turned over.
Our tight forwards are powder puffs.
I wouldn't say our tight forwards are powder puffs, but our clean out execution in general is woeful. Either go off their feet (falling or flying torpedo), turn up far too late, taking people way beyond what is deemed acceptable and the list goes on. There were a heap of clean outs missed.
Sure the execution is on the players, but this is basic core skills coaching that appears to be missing as it is all to frequent from this current team.
Yeah, it's pretty much like the breakdown is not even an afterthought, it's a non-thought and the players have zero idea what to do or who will do it. Hence you get a random coming in flying from nowhere each time, who completely missies anyone anyway and is so inaccurate the ref just ignores him because all he's done is land two metres off to the side of the ruck on the opposition side, where no one is. Then you get a tight forward standing as a pillar to the side of an unprotected ruck, and a back looking, deciding whether they need to clean out, then deciding yes once the opposition have already walked onto our side, running in and immediately going backwards.
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It might seem a little left field but after a very disappointing series I’d be throwing a bit of caution to the wind against the Boks and just go with combinations.
We have a Blues 10-12-13 or a Saders 10-12-13 - both have flaws and positives, select one and roll with them.
We have a Saders 11-14-15 in Fainga’anuku, Reece and Jordan - they work well and complement each other. Alternatively if the Saders 10-12-13 is used, go with a Blues back three of Clarke, Ioane and Beaudie/Perofeta
Go with the Blues loose trio and the Saders locks.
Front row - Bower at LH, Sami at hooker, and pray for some sort of miracle for TH.
Halfback - one of the Highlanders
Too many Canes you say, yep there’s two of them on the bench - Ardie and Jordie.
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It might seem a little left field but after a very disappointing series I’d be throwing a bit of caution to the wind against the Boks and just go with combinations.
We have a Blues 10-12-13 or a Saders 10-12-13 - both have flaws and positives, select one and roll with them.
We have a Saders 11-14-15 in Fainga’anuku, Reece and Jordan - they work well and complement each other. Alternatively if the Saders 10-12-13 is used, go with a Blues back three of Clarke, Ioane and Beaudie/Perofeta
Go with the Blues loose trio and the Saders locks.
Front row - Bower at LH, Sami at hooker, and pray for some sort of miracle for TH.
Halfback - one of the Highlanders
Too many Canes you say, yep there’s two of them on the bench - Ardie and Jordie.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
It might seem a little left field but after a very disappointing series I’d be throwing a bit of caution to the wind against the Boks and just go with combinations.
We have a Blues 10-12-13 or a Saders 10-12-13 - both have flaws and positives, select one and roll with them.
We have a Saders 11-14-15 in Fainga’anuku, Reece and Jordan - they work well and complement each other. Alternatively if the Saders 10-12-13 is used, go with a Blues back three of Clarke, Ioane and Beaudie/Perofeta
Go with the Blues loose trio and the Saders locks.
Front row - Bower at LH, Sami at hooker, and pray for some sort of miracle for TH.
Halfback - one of the Highlanders
Too many Canes you say, yep there’s two of them on the bench - Ardie and Jordie.
The selections are moot. We have plenty of talented players, but they are not being utlisied properly. They look confused, disorganised and the tactics they are being asked to implement aren't working.
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
It might seem a little left field but after a very disappointing series I’d be throwing a bit of caution to the wind against the Boks and just go with combinations.
We have a Blues 10-12-13 or a Saders 10-12-13 - both have flaws and positives, select one and roll with them.
We have a Saders 11-14-15 in Fainga’anuku, Reece and Jordan - they work well and complement each other. Alternatively if the Saders 10-12-13 is used, go with a Blues back three of Clarke, Ioane and Beaudie/Perofeta
Go with the Blues loose trio and the Saders locks.
Front row - Bower at LH, Sami at hooker, and pray for some sort of miracle for TH.
Halfback - one of the Highlanders
Too many Canes you say, yep there’s two of them on the bench - Ardie and Jordie.
The selections are moot. We have plenty of talented players, but they are not being utlisied properly. They look confused, disorganised and the tactics they are being asked to implement aren't working.
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
I said much the same thing at the time.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
Whatever they do, I’d have this on the wall.
The entire rugby community, including world rugby, is enjoying the ABs being shown up.
Every coach - and AB - should have to look at shit like this and consider whether they are prepared to put some Mana back into the jersey.
If you cant deliver, leave.
Yeah nah. What NZ rugby needs is intelligence not emotion. More of this « channel your emotions” and less of an actuel game plan, strategy etc will get us nowhere.
Personally I think we need both.
They are against us.
Yup, because I don’t see much of either over the last few years
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
I said much the same thing at the time.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
I said much the same thing at the time.
I'm a simple man. Since day 1 I said I didn't rate Foster as a coach.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
You weren't in the minority here, no one was that impressed. Apart from the media hacks
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
I said much the same thing at the time.
I'm a simple man. Since day 1 I said I didn't rate Foster as a coach.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
I said much the same thing at the time.
I'm a simple man. Since day 1 I said I didn't rate Foster as a coach.
Along with most of the Fern
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
You weren't in the minority here, no one was that impressed. Apart from the media hacks
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
You weren't in the minority here, no one was that impressed. Apart from the media hacks
Really? That wasn't the impression I got. Many seemed very pleased at supposedly seeing a plan that worked. Maybe I dreamed it.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
You weren't in the minority here, no one was that impressed. Apart from the media hacks
Really? That wasn't the impression I got. Many seemed very pleased at supposedly seeing a plan that worked. Maybe I dreamed it.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
You weren't in the minority here, no one was that impressed. Apart from the media hacks
Really? That wasn't the impression I got. Many seemed very pleased at supposedly seeing a plan that worked. Maybe I dreamed it.
IIRC the majority felt he didn't deserve the job based on
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The continuity argument fails when Shag and his crew had been found out since 2018 and Foster represented more of the same
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Foster hasn't won anything regardless of his ability as an assistant
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
You weren't in the minority here, no one was that impressed. Apart from the media hacks
Really? That wasn't the impression I got. Many seemed very pleased at supposedly seeing a plan that worked. Maybe I dreamed it.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
I go back to the covid week where Schmidt probably was forced to simplify everything, we played much better.
I would put it more as the Irish did not play well, rather than us playing better. The warning signs were there for the ABs - the Irish appeared to make ground at will and they crossed our line multiple times. And about the only attacking tactic anyone could spot was Smith firing the ball wide of the Irish defensive channels.
Yeah, not sure if I was in the minority, but I said afterwards that it was a paper over the cracks win. I really didn't see anything that structured by the AB's it still seemed helter skelter, it's just that it worked.
You weren't in the minority here, no one was that impressed. Apart from the media hacks
Really? That wasn't the impression I got. Many seemed very pleased at supposedly seeing a plan that worked. Maybe I dreamed it.
Jeez I think everyone enjoyed the win, but as you said, our defence was arse, with brave scramble. And the tactic of hitting 3 out was only going to work once, even if it was good to see. Maybe it was that I just ignored all the opinion otherwise, cos they were obvs talking rubbish!
