Foster, Robertson etc
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Hope not. But the issue clearly is not just a poor head coach. But obviously appointing a limited super rugby coach doesn't help. And then letting this same coach select a new coaching team is beyond silly. I still have doubts about Joe based on what happened in Ireland. And now after just one test where he is fully on board
So maybe Robertson is only a partial answer. Long term more is needed like replacing Robinson. And a new structure to attract better candidates to the NZR Board
And it is a decline: everything about the All Blacks’ performance on Saturday screamed decline: you don’t get to that point unless a number of things have gone wrong. Here are some of the symptoms and/or causes of the Australian decline: do they sound familiar? A lack of alignment between the governing body and the test team; an over-sensitivity to criticism; a lack of effective relationships between the national side and the Super Rugby clubs; the atrophying of professional players’ skill levels; the development of saviour syndrome amongst fans (if only coach A/player A were involved it would be just fine); player power; a complete disconnection between the rich professional game and the grassroots; clear evidence of people within the rugby system working in silos; an inability to work out what to do with the ‘third tier’ of rugby (NPC); the loss of coaches overseas; a misguided belief that what worked previously will work again; blaming external factors (the refs, the rules); and performance inconsistency. To that list, New Zealand has its own unique issues, such as a relatively stagnant professional competition that is won by only one team (the Crusaders) and the unhealthy pooling of playing resources in the top two teams.@Winger Ive read comments from Irish supporters and I guess the feeling is a bit mixed when it comes to Joe , overall they are happy with some of the success he brought but there is still some negative stuff to go with that ,
Basically it goes along the line of- he was great for a while , then we got worked out and everyone knew what was coming , he didnt seem to have an answer and just kept recycling the same stuff
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in Foster:
Aaron Smith coming off with 20 to go was poor as well. He was playing OK, but more to the point what we needed was experience and cool heads, not a guy with basically no experience.
He was playing dog shit by then. Like the rest of 'em. Christie needs a start now.
Not on the form he displayed this year. Like an excitable puppy with the passing to match.
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I hate myself for doing this, but Foster hasn't been helped by the refs this year. With this team, we are vulnerable to a ref that plays a style we struggle with.
Ireland 3: the head collision should have been red, and we'd win that game.
Bokke 1: the ref interpretations around supporting bodyweight were ... interesting. We weren't good enough to respond and play to the new line, but it let SA wreak merry havoc in our rucks. Our cleaning sucked too, but the ref sure didn't help.
Argentina 1: Just at the end of the first half. The ref is just a bit random, and really likes blowing penalties against attacking sides, and allow some random players off feet to play the ball. You can see players getting frustrated; some pedantic calls followed by shrugging at offences.
Nothing major to it, just reflecting on it. We're not a well disciplined side, adn we don't seem to be playing smart to refs. But, Foster is not being helped.
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I hate myself for doing this, but Foster hasn't been helped by the refs this year. With this team, we are vulnerable to a ref that plays a style we struggle with.
Ireland 3: the head collision should have been red, and we'd win that game.
Bokke 1: the ref interpretations around supporting bodyweight were ... interesting. We weren't good enough to respond and play to the new line, but it let SA wreak merry havoc in our rucks. Our cleaning sucked too, but the ref sure didn't help.
Argentina 1: Just at the end of the first half. The ref is just a bit random, and really likes blowing penalties against attacking sides, and allow some random players off feet to play the ball. You can see players getting frustrated; some pedantic calls followed by shrugging at offences.
Nothing major to it, just reflecting on it. We're not a well disciplined side, adn we don't seem to be playing smart to refs. But, Foster is not being helped.
I hate myself for doing this, but Foster hasn't been helped by the refs this year. With this team, we are vulnerable to a ref that plays a style we struggle with.
Ireland 3: the head collision should have been red, and we'd win that game.
Bokke 1: the ref interpretations around supporting bodyweight were ... interesting. We weren't good enough to respond and play to the new line, but it let SA wreak merry havoc in our rucks. Our cleaning sucked too, but the ref sure didn't help.
Argentina 1: Just at the end of the first half. The ref is just a bit random, and really likes blowing penalties against attacking sides, and allow some random players off feet to play the ball. You can see players getting frustrated; some pedantic calls followed by shrugging at offences.
Nothing major to it, just reflecting on it. We're not a well disciplined side, adn we don't seem to be playing smart to refs. But, Foster is not being helped.
handling refs is part of playing smart and selecting and coaching smart players and smart tactics. It isn't a one-off game but almost every game (not SA test 2).
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@Winger Ive read comments from Irish supporters and I guess the feeling is a bit mixed when it comes to Joe , overall they are happy with some of the success he brought but there is still some negative stuff to go with that ,
Basically it goes along the line of- he was great for a while , then we got worked out and everyone knew what was coming , he didnt seem to have an answer and just kept recycling the same stuff
@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
@Winger Ive read comments from Irish supporters and I guess the feeling is a bit mixed when it comes to Joe , overall they are happy with some of the success he brought but there is still some negative stuff to go with that ,
Basically it goes along the line of- he was great for a while , then we got worked out and everyone knew what was coming , he didnt seem to have an answer and just kept recycling the same stuff
Yeah that's my feedback as well. He was great at finally making them consistent but it was a highly attritional style of play that bit them on the arse in 2019. Farrell has injected some much needed innovation and taken them to another level. It concerns me greatly that we seem to have inherited a guy who is considered past his use by date.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
@Winger Ive read comments from Irish supporters and I guess the feeling is a bit mixed when it comes to Joe , overall they are happy with some of the success he brought but there is still some negative stuff to go with that ,
Basically it goes along the line of- he was great for a while , then we got worked out and everyone knew what was coming , he didnt seem to have an answer and just kept recycling the same stuff
Yeah that's my feedback as well. He was great at finally making them consistent but it was a highly attritional style of play that bit them on the arse in 2019. Farrell has injected some much needed innovation and taken them to another level. It concerns me greatly that we seem to have inherited a guy who is considered past his use by date.
@Rancid-Schnitzel dunno, right now having some structure & consistency sounds mighty fine to me...cos the 2nd half of that test, and the 1st of the 3rd Irish test are up there as some of the worst AB rugby I have seen where nothing went right and basic skills went out the window.
The pressure form the opposition, the pressure from themselves, the pressure simply to perform is immense, and they are failing at almost every turn right now.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
@Winger Ive read comments from Irish supporters and I guess the feeling is a bit mixed when it comes to Joe , overall they are happy with some of the success he brought but there is still some negative stuff to go with that ,
Basically it goes along the line of- he was great for a while , then we got worked out and everyone knew what was coming , he didnt seem to have an answer and just kept recycling the same stuff
Yeah that's my feedback as well. He was great at finally making them consistent but it was a highly attritional style of play that bit them on the arse in 2019. Farrell has injected some much needed innovation and taken them to another level. It concerns me greatly that we seem to have inherited a guy who is considered past his use by date.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster:
@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
@Winger Ive read comments from Irish supporters and I guess the feeling is a bit mixed when it comes to Joe , overall they are happy with some of the success he brought but there is still some negative stuff to go with that ,
Basically it goes along the line of- he was great for a while , then we got worked out and everyone knew what was coming , he didnt seem to have an answer and just kept recycling the same stuff
Yeah that's my feedback as well. He was great at finally making them consistent but it was a highly attritional style of play that bit them on the arse in 2019. Farrell has injected some much needed innovation and taken them to another level. It concerns me greatly that we seem to have inherited a guy who is considered past his use by date.
I was really impressed that Farrell took the basic building blocks (which were good) but further honed them (where needed).
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@Rancid-Schnitzel dunno, right now having some structure & consistency sounds mighty fine to me...cos the 2nd half of that test, and the 1st of the 3rd Irish test are up there as some of the worst AB rugby I have seen where nothing went right and basic skills went out the window.
The pressure form the opposition, the pressure from themselves, the pressure simply to perform is immense, and they are failing at almost every turn right now.
@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel dunno, right now having some structure & consistency sounds mighty fine to me...cos the 2nd half of that test, and the 1st of the 3rd Irish test are up there as some of the worst AB rugby I have seen where nothing went right and basic skills went out the window.
The pressure form the opposition, the pressure from themselves, the pressure simply to perform is immense, and they are failing at almost every turn right now.
I guess it depends on what his role is. Given what we saw from Ireland, I'm not certain attack coach is quite his jam.
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@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel dunno, right now having some structure & consistency sounds mighty fine to me...cos the 2nd half of that test, and the 1st of the 3rd Irish test are up there as some of the worst AB rugby I have seen where nothing went right and basic skills went out the window.
The pressure form the opposition, the pressure from themselves, the pressure simply to perform is immense, and they are failing at almost every turn right now.
I guess it depends on what his role is. Given what we saw from Ireland, I'm not certain attack coach is quite his jam.
@Rancid-Schnitzel Beaudy thinks it'll work
But this part is what you are pointing at
But while Schmidt's attacking style with Ireland - and Leinster before that - was built on pragmatism rather than flair, Barrett is also confident the All Blacks can add a dimension under his tutelage.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Beaudy thinks it'll work
But this part is what you are pointing at
But while Schmidt's attacking style with Ireland - and Leinster before that - was built on pragmatism rather than flair, Barrett is also confident the All Blacks can add a dimension under his tutelage.
@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Beaudy thinks it'll work
But this part is what you are pointing at
But while Schmidt's attacking style with Ireland - and Leinster before that - was built on pragmatism rather than flair, Barrett is also confident the All Blacks can add a dimension under his tutelage.
Well Barrett can't really say anything else can he?.Even if he has doubts.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Beaudy thinks it'll work
But this part is what you are pointing at
But while Schmidt's attacking style with Ireland - and Leinster before that - was built on pragmatism rather than flair, Barrett is also confident the All Blacks can add a dimension under his tutelage.
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Was he attack coach with the Blues this year ?
or what was his role there ?
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@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
Was he attack coach with the Blues this year ?
Him and Halangahu
Officially Schmidt was a consultant and Halangahu a skills coach. There was a big improvement on attack from 2021
@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
Was he attack coach with the Blues this year ?
Him and Halangahu
yeah ok i missed a lot of SR this year , but from what I saw Blues looked great in attack ( trying to be glass half full )
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His attack already worked well with NZ players in SR
It was hardly limited for the Blues
1st Points scored
1st Clean breaks
1st Tries scored
2nd Offloads
3rd Defenders beaten -
@Duluth yeah he is probably best placed to comment on it having worked with Schmidt for a while...that said, trying new patterns and set up while confidence is low won't help.
Also, maybe it suits some players more than others?
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This is something of a must watch for everyone on the Fern about where the ABs are at right now. Gregory Paul clearly has very good sauces and he is talking very openly here.
Key points if you don't have time to watch it all.
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NZR were very keen to bring Joe Schmidt in because of his knowledge of Ireland and Six Nations Rugby. They think that will help the team at the next RWC.
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Joe Schmidt felt loyalty to Ian Foster so was only going to work with him. Joe Schmidt is in the driver's seat to take over from Foster post-2023 RWC.
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Razor thinks the ABs need a total clearout of staff from Head Coach to Masseur. Go back to Ground Zero. This is too radical/costly for NZR.
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England, Wales and Scotland are already thinking of Razor as their coach post 2023 RWC. Given Eddie Jones is retiring, don't be surprised if Razor is named as the next England coach in February or March.
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The Irish presenters can't believe how bad the All Blacks are at the moment and that NZR are letting a genius slip through their hands.
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This is something of a must watch for everyone on the Fern about where the ABs are at right now. Gregory Paul clearly has very good sauces and he is talking very openly here.
Key points if you don't have time to watch it all.
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NZR were very keen to bring Joe Schmidt in because of his knowledge of Ireland and Six Nations Rugby. They think that will help the team at the next RWC.
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Joe Schmidt felt loyalty to Ian Foster so was only going to work with him. Joe Schmidt is in the driver's seat to take over from Foster post-2023 RWC.
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Razor thinks the ABs need a total clearout of staff from Head Coach to Masseur. Go back to Ground Zero. This is too radical/costly for NZR.
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England, Wales and Scotland are already thinking of Razor as their coach post 2023 RWC. Given Eddie Jones is retiring, don't be surprised if Razor is named as the next England coach in February or March.
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The Irish presenters can't believe how bad the All Blacks are at the moment and that NZR are letting a genius slip through their hands.
@sparky Well if this is true then I am watching soccer.
NZR are useless. I love the ABs but hope they lose this weekend and the Bled.
Pathetic if true -
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Gregor Paul is slightly speculating that Razor would want a mass-cleanout, but it is probably a pretty good educated guess.
I think if the ABs keep losing, NZR will try and persuade Schmidt to take over.
Schmidt would likely keep everyone else on. The fact Schmidt is there lowers Razor's chances of becoming head coach.This might be acceptable looking ass-covering for those at the top without any mass-cleanout being instituted (upon them)
