All Blacks vs Wallabies 2
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@Kirwan Of the 23 there are seven I would happily never see in an AB side again and another I would drop
Time for a 1974 style clean-out (15 debutants in a squad of 25)?
@dogmeat said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Time for a 1974 style clean-out (15 debutants in a squad of 25)
We need a Cavaliers tour to Russia.
I'm intrigued as to whether we are going to learn anything new from this team. I would suggest not. It is quite possible that we will be shit a the beginning and finish well, as opposed to the other way around though.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Fact is the ABs don't really have the cattle. There is not one player not selected this week that makes a considerable difference to this team. There is no silver bullet.
The real assessment of this team is at the end of next year, where if Razor is still showing 'Crusader bias' and the results aren't there, he'll come in for criticism.
Not in the squad, no. But there are several players that would improve things.
Nawera for Reece or Telea.
Sotutu
Any back for Havilli (I’d look at Lam)
Akira or Suafoa for Blackadder or Jacobson
Plummer to actually be usedAnd that’s just the tip of my head.
Loosies are a huge problem. Picking too many sevens, and players either out of form or not good enough.
I don't entirely disagree with most of that, but I am not convinced that those players improve things.
I would pay that potentially Sotutu could be a good impact sub, but lets not forget he has been tried and failed by the All Blacks before.
Glad you weren't selecting when Nonu or Kaino were around.
I've literally said I'd pick Sotutu. More just pointing out that there is no guarantee he is a success like some people think he would be.
just so i am clear, your argument is, that while the current guys suck, we shouldn't drop them because the replacements might suck too?
No, my argument is that we could change them, but I don't think it will really make a difference, so I am fairly indifferent to it.
I think a lot of people think that by picking other players it will improve the All Blacks performance, but I honestly think last week's team as pretty close to the best 23 players in the country.
Certainly 7 out of 8 of that pack are. Cane v Papalii v Whoever else is negligible. Take out Reece for whoever you like, and I think most would say that is the best backline.
Aumua would miss out to Samasoni if fit, Tosi v Newell is negligible, Darry v Tuipulotu is negligible, Perenara would miss out to Roigard if fit, Beauden would be in for Plummer as an impact sub.
In other words, the only place where you could potentially change things and see real change would be the loose forwards.
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Fact is the ABs don't really have the cattle. There is not one player not selected this week that makes a considerable difference to this team. There is no silver bullet.
The real assessment of this team is at the end of next year, where if Razor is still showing 'Crusader bias' and the results aren't there, he'll come in for criticism.
Not in the squad, no. But there are several players that would improve things.
Nawera for Reece or Telea.
Sotutu
Any back for Havilli (I’d look at Lam)
Akira or Suafoa for Blackadder or Jacobson
Plummer to actually be usedAnd that’s just the tip of my head.
Loosies are a huge problem. Picking too many sevens, and players either out of form or not good enough.
I don't entirely disagree with most of that, but I am not convinced that those players improve things.
I would pay that potentially Sotutu could be a good impact sub, but lets not forget he has been tried and failed by the All Blacks before.
Glad you weren't selecting when Nonu or Kaino were around.
I've literally said I'd pick Sotutu. More just pointing out that there is no guarantee he is a success like some people think he would be.
just so i am clear, your argument is, that while the current guys suck, we shouldn't drop them because the replacements might suck too?
No, my argument is that we could change them, but I don't think it will really make a difference, so I am fairly indifferent to it.
I think a lot of people think that by picking other players it will improve the All Blacks performance, but I honestly think last week's team as pretty close to the best 23 players in the country.
Certainly 7 out of 8 of that pack are. Cane v Papalii v Whoever else is negligible. Take out Reece for whoever you like, and I think most would say that is the best backline.
Aumua would miss out to Samasoni if fit, Tosi v Newell is negligible, Darry v Tuipulotu is negligible, Perenara would miss out to Roigard if fit, Beauden would be in for Plummer as an impact sub.
In other words, the only place where you could potentially change things and see real change would be the loose forwards.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
All I will say is, thanks to terrible squad selections and Crusader bias, the 23 we are putting out this year is nowhere near as strong as it could be
Agree Havili shouldn’t be there but isn’t there more of a Chiefs bias in that 23?
@Nevorian said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
All I will say is, thanks to terrible squad selections and Crusader bias, the 23 we are putting out this year is nowhere near as strong as it could be
Agree Havili shouldn’t be there but isn’t there more of a Chiefs bias in that 23?
Bias only applies if the players concerned get picked but don't deserve their spot....
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@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Fact is the ABs don't really have the cattle. There is not one player not selected this week that makes a considerable difference to this team. There is no silver bullet.
The real assessment of this team is at the end of next year, where if Razor is still showing 'Crusader bias' and the results aren't there, he'll come in for criticism.
Not in the squad, no. But there are several players that would improve things.
Nawera for Reece or Telea.
Sotutu
Any back for Havilli (I’d look at Lam)
Akira or Suafoa for Blackadder or Jacobson
Plummer to actually be usedAnd that’s just the tip of my head.
Loosies are a huge problem. Picking too many sevens, and players either out of form or not good enough.
I don't entirely disagree with most of that, but I am not convinced that those players improve things.
I would pay that potentially Sotutu could be a good impact sub, but lets not forget he has been tried and failed by the All Blacks before.
Glad you weren't selecting when Nonu or Kaino were around.
I've literally said I'd pick Sotutu. More just pointing out that there is no guarantee he is a success like some people think he would be.
just so i am clear, your argument is, that while the current guys suck, we shouldn't drop them because the replacements might suck too?
No, my argument is that we could change them, but I don't think it will really make a difference, so I am fairly indifferent to it.
I think a lot of people think that by picking other players it will improve the All Blacks performance, but I honestly think last week's team as pretty close to the best 23 players in the country.
Certainly 7 out of 8 of that pack are. Cane v Papalii v Whoever else is negligible. Take out Reece for whoever you like, and I think most would say that is the best backline.
Aumua would miss out to Samasoni if fit, Tosi v Newell is negligible, Darry v Tuipulotu is negligible, Perenara would miss out to Roigard if fit, Beauden would be in for Plummer as an impact sub.
In other words, the only place where you could potentially change things and see real change would be the loose forwards.
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Fact is the ABs don't really have the cattle. There is not one player not selected this week that makes a considerable difference to this team. There is no silver bullet.
The real assessment of this team is at the end of next year, where if Razor is still showing 'Crusader bias' and the results aren't there, he'll come in for criticism.
Not in the squad, no. But there are several players that would improve things.
Nawera for Reece or Telea.
Sotutu
Any back for Havilli (I’d look at Lam)
Akira or Suafoa for Blackadder or Jacobson
Plummer to actually be usedAnd that’s just the tip of my head.
Loosies are a huge problem. Picking too many sevens, and players either out of form or not good enough.
I don't entirely disagree with most of that, but I am not convinced that those players improve things.
I would pay that potentially Sotutu could be a good impact sub, but lets not forget he has been tried and failed by the All Blacks before.
Glad you weren't selecting when Nonu or Kaino were around.
I've literally said I'd pick Sotutu. More just pointing out that there is no guarantee he is a success like some people think he would be.
just so i am clear, your argument is, that while the current guys suck, we shouldn't drop them because the replacements might suck too?
No, my argument is that we could change them, but I don't think it will really make a difference, so I am fairly indifferent to it.
I think a lot of people think that by picking other players it will improve the All Blacks performance, but I honestly think last week's team as pretty close to the best 23 players in the country.
Certainly 7 out of 8 of that pack are. Cane v Papalii v Whoever else is negligible. Take out Reece for whoever you like, and I think most would say that is the best backline.
Aumua would miss out to Samasoni if fit, Tosi v Newell is negligible, Darry v Tuipulotu is negligible, Perenara would miss out to Roigard if fit, Beauden would be in for Plummer as an impact sub.
In other words, the only place where you could potentially change things and see real change would be the loose forwards.
That's one of my favourite gifs. Nice to have a little joy on this thread for one moment at least
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Fucking BB at 10 and TJ at 9. What is this 2014?
Should be DMac at 9 and TJP at 10 to really troll people
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Fucking BB at 10 and TJ at 9. What is this 2014?
Should be DMac at 9 and TJP at 10 to really troll people
The halfback passing might improve!
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Time for a 1974 style clean-out (15 debutants in a squad of 25)
We need a Cavaliers tour to Russia.
I'm intrigued as to whether we are going to learn anything new from this team. I would suggest not. It is quite possible that we will be shit a the beginning and finish well, as opposed to the other way around though.
@Snowy said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Time for a 1974 style clean-out (15 debutants in a squad of 25)
We need a Cavaliers tour to Russia.
I'm intrigued as to whether we are going to learn anything new from this team. I would suggest not. It is quite possible that we will be shit a the beginning and finish well, as opposed to the other way around though.
Learn nothing. Nada. Except perhaps more evidence that Razor is not the droid we're looking for
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Having minimal backup Ist five cover after DMac for the rest of the year is a risk.
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Having minimal backup Ist five cover after DMac for the rest of the year is a risk.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Having minimal backup Ist five cover after DMac for the rest of the year is a risk.
I'd have kept DMac on. He's your future 10, he's playing bloody well (mostly) - and BB is a dead end.
What the hell kind of message are you sending to him by dropping him? Do you think he'll suddenly play better? You want him creating chaos and throwing those passes, not going to ground with the ball.
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Yep this match is kinda a send off. Not the ruthless selectorial process we have seen historically.
They should've trusted the young fullas more this year and given game time. -
Yep this match is kinda a send off. Not the ruthless selectorial process we have seen historically.
They should've trusted the young fullas more this year and given game time.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Yep this match is kinda a send off. Not the ruthless selectorial process we have seen historically.
They should've trusted the young fullas more this year and given game time.I can't imagine Fred Allen giving players a send off other than "you're bloody useless" if they asked why they weren't selected.
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No time for sentimentality when our form is bad, so;
Cane
Perenara
Reece
Aumua
Jacobsen
Havili
Barrett BNow saying I'd be happy not seeing them in Black again isn't quite the same as advocating none of them should play this weekend. That would be too disruptive, but I wouldn't be taking any of them to the NH. They're either past it or haven't got it. Patrick T fits those criteria too in an ideal world.
@dogmeat said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
No time for sentimentality when our form is bad, so;
Cane
Perenara
Reece
Aumua
Jacobsen
Havili
Barrett BNow saying I'd be happy not seeing them in Black again isn't quite the same as advocating none of them should play this weekend. That would be too disruptive, but I wouldn't be taking any of them to the NH. They're either past it or haven't got it. Patrick T fits those criteria too in an ideal world.
You must have some time for sentimentality - otherwise how is Ardie not on your list?
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
No time for sentimentality when our form is bad, so;
Cane
Perenara
Reece
Aumua
Jacobsen
Havili
Barrett BNow saying I'd be happy not seeing them in Black again isn't quite the same as advocating none of them should play this weekend. That would be too disruptive, but I wouldn't be taking any of them to the NH. They're either past it or haven't got it. Patrick T fits those criteria too in an ideal world.
You must have some time for sentimentality - otherwise how is Ardie not on your list?
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Yep this match is kinda a send off. Not the ruthless selectorial process we have seen historically.
They should've trusted the young fullas more this year and given game time.@BerniesCorner Like 1974 Dropped at least half the experienced back seat of the bus players and took the captaincy off Kirky (arguably the best player in the team) who learned about it on the bus on the way back from Poverty Bay game and simply said 'at least I'm still in the team".
Ruthless yes but a reaction to the dross the team had delivered the year before and it worked. Not every debutant worked out - but most did and a handful went on to have very successful AB careers.
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@Nepia He's the one I said I would drop. If his form comes back then he's a contender, but those seven. Thanks for the memories etc
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@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
I don't mind that team but have to question the continued selection of Lolesio. Best of a bad bunch I guess, but I'm not convinced even that is true
Lolesio > BBarrett
@Nevorian said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
I don't mind that team but have to question the continued selection of Lolesio. Best of a bad bunch I guess, but I'm not convinced even that is true
Lolesio > BBarrett
Uh... Sure...
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All I will say is, thanks to terrible squad selections and Crusader bias, the 23 we are putting out this year is nowhere near as strong as it could be.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
All I will say is, thanks to terrible squad selections and Crusader bias, the 23 we are putting out this year is nowhere near as strong as it could be.
Ronan O’Gara used to criticise AB selectors for not starting more of the champion Super team, but this year’s champion, built on best pack in comp, can only manage two, both backs.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Yep this match is kinda a send off. Not the ruthless selectorial process we have seen historically.
They should've trusted the young fullas more this year and given game time.I can't imagine Fred Allen giving players a send off other than "you're bloody useless" if they asked why they weren't selected.
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Yep this match is kinda a send off. Not the ruthless selectorial process we have seen historically.
They should've trusted the young fullas more this year and given game time.I can't imagine Fred Allen giving players a send off other than "you're bloody useless" if they asked why they weren't selected.
The parameters are a bit different though eh. Needles coached the ABs for 14 tests over 3 years and wasn't handed a pile of shite.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Yep this match is kinda a send off. Not the ruthless selectorial process we have seen historically.
They should've trusted the young fullas more this year and given game time.I can't imagine Fred Allen giving players a send off other than "you're bloody useless" if they asked why they weren't selected.
The parameters are a bit different though eh. Needles coached the ABs for 14 tests over 3 years and wasn't handed a pile of shite.
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Yep this match is kinda a send off. Not the ruthless selectorial process we have seen historically.
They should've trusted the young fullas more this year and given game time.I can't imagine Fred Allen giving players a send off other than "you're bloody useless" if they asked why they weren't selected.
The parameters are a bit different though eh. Needles coached the ABs for 14 tests over 3 years and wasn't handed a pile of shite.
Razor wasn't handed anything, he picked his team.
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@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Yep this match is kinda a send off. Not the ruthless selectorial process we have seen historically.
They should've trusted the young fullas more this year and given game time.I can't imagine Fred Allen giving players a send off other than "you're bloody useless" if they asked why they weren't selected.
The parameters are a bit different though eh. Needles coached the ABs for 14 tests over 3 years and wasn't handed a pile of shite.
Razor wasn't handed anything, he picked his team.
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Yep this match is kinda a send off. Not the ruthless selectorial process we have seen historically.
They should've trusted the young fullas more this year and given game time.I can't imagine Fred Allen giving players a send off other than "you're bloody useless" if they asked why they weren't selected.
The parameters are a bit different though eh. Needles coached the ABs for 14 tests over 3 years and wasn't handed a pile of shite.
Razor wasn't handed anything, he picked his team.
He had superstars available to him...
