All Blacks 2025
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
Vito could have stayed longer too in my opinion.
Amazing athlete, possibly lacked a bit of a mean streak though ?
fits our 6 needs better though I suspect. And a ball carrier.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
Vito could have stayed longer too in my opinion.
Amazing athlete, possibly lacked a bit of a mean streak though ?
fits our 6 needs better though I suspect. And a ball carrier.
god what we wouldn't give for a Victor Vito now.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
So post 2015 we have had a succession of coaches that don't appear to be able to get the best out of a bunch of pretty good players. Is that a failure to relate, is it fault on the part of the players, or more likely a bunch of factors that made these guys leave?
Its a coaching/management failure. Every one of these guys could have been world class just by giving them test matches, experience and managing them better.
Victor Vito
Steve Luatua
Liam Squire
Vaea Fifita
Akira IoaneI do't think being given lack of chances applied to them all. Luatua, Fifita, and Akira yep, they could have had more. But:
Vito got lots of chances, he was just up against Kaino for the main spot, and Messam for the back up (who had a purple patch of form when Kaino was out for a bit). But in spite of that he had a good AB career. and won two RWC's.
Squire was injured then had his mental health issues which meant he couldn't really nail down the spot.
For Vito he was 28 when he left and had 30 odd tests under his belt. He was ready kick on after his apprenticeship and they should have nailed him down
Regarding Squire, speculation, but could he have been managed better so that his mental health issues didn't spiral out of control?
The way Hansen managed Akira Ioane publicly caused Ioane to have his own brief mental health challenges and his weight spiraled. So I suspect that along with the way he treated Luatua that Squire was not getting the support he needed - a management failure. There needs to be systems and support in place for players to cope with injuries etc.
Fifita was better with the ball in hand than any of them but for some reason was shunted into lock for the Canes. Probably so Brad Shields could rack up more games before going to play for England.
Publicly saying he didn’t like playing lock did him absolutely no favours either.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
So post 2015 we have had a succession of coaches that don't appear to be able to get the best out of a bunch of pretty good players. Is that a failure to relate, is it fault on the part of the players, or more likely a bunch of factors that made these guys leave?
Its a coaching/management failure. Every one of these guys could have been world class just by giving them test matches, experience and managing them better.
Victor Vito
Steve Luatua
Liam Squire
Vaea Fifita
Akira IoaneI do't think being given lack of chances applied to them all. Luatua, Fifita, and Akira yep, they could have had more. But:
Vito got lots of chances, he was just up against Kaino for the main spot, and Messam for the back up (who had a purple patch of form when Kaino was out for a bit). But in spite of that he had a good AB career. and won two RWC's.
Squire was injured then had his mental health issues which meant he couldn't really nail down the spot.
For Vito he was 28 when he left and had 30 odd tests under his belt. He was ready kick on after his apprenticeship and they should have nailed him down
Regarding Squire, speculation, but could he have been managed better so that his mental health issues didn't spiral out of control?
The way Hansen managed Akira Ioane publicly caused Ioane to have his own brief mental health challenges and his weight spiraled. So I suspect that along with the way he treated Luatua that Squire was not getting the support he needed - a management failure. There needs to be systems and support in place for players to cope with injuries etc.
Fifita was better with the ball in hand than any of them but for some reason was shunted into lock for the Canes. Probably so Brad Shields could rack up more games before going to play for England.
Publicly saying he didn’t like playing lock did him absolutely no favours either.
That is Super and even NPC rugby for you. Fast and loose so move your big physical guys into lock and play small fast hybrid 7s in the loose forwards.
It is probably a similar issue for Naitoa Ah Kuoi, Caleb Delaney, Dominic Gardiner, now even Oliver Haig and possibly Will Stoddard in the future.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
So post 2015 we have had a succession of coaches that don't appear to be able to get the best out of a bunch of pretty good players. Is that a failure to relate, is it fault on the part of the players, or more likely a bunch of factors that made these guys leave?
Its a coaching/management failure. Every one of these guys could have been world class just by giving them test matches, experience and managing them better.
Victor Vito
Steve Luatua
Liam Squire
Vaea Fifita
Akira IoaneI do't think being given lack of chances applied to them all. Luatua, Fifita, and Akira yep, they could have had more. But:
Vito got lots of chances, he was just up against Kaino for the main spot, and Messam for the back up (who had a purple patch of form when Kaino was out for a bit). But in spite of that he had a good AB career. and won two RWC's.
Squire was injured then had his mental health issues which meant he couldn't really nail down the spot.
For Vito he was 28 when he left and had 30 odd tests under his belt. He was ready kick on after his apprenticeship and they should have nailed him down
Regarding Squire, speculation, but could he have been managed better so that his mental health issues didn't spiral out of control?
The way Hansen managed Akira Ioane publicly caused Ioane to have his own brief mental health challenges and his weight spiraled. So I suspect that along with the way he treated Luatua that Squire was not getting the support he needed - a management failure. There needs to be systems and support in place for players to cope with injuries etc.
Fifita was better with the ball in hand than any of them but for some reason was shunted into lock for the Canes. Probably so Brad Shields could rack up more games before going to play for England.
Publicly saying he didn’t like playing lock did him absolutely no favours either.
That is Super and even NPC rugby for you. Fast and loose so move your big physical guys into lock and play small fast hybrid 7s in the loose forwards.
It is probably a similar issue for Naitoa Ah Kuoi, Caleb Delaney, Dominic Gardiner, now even Oliver Haig and possibly Will Stoddard in the future.
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I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
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I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
Yes he is listed as 1.98 m tall and seems more solid to me than Ah Kuoi. Plus he is only 23.
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Followed Josh Beehre’s career since he was at Whangarei Boys for me he’s a lock not a 6 , he would need to play a full season at 6 in the Npc and rock it big time
Cam Christie and Tristyn Cook imo are better options for the Blues moving forward ,Cook is a dynamic player not to mention a superb line out forward -
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
Can we see if we can get him in the Troy Flavell mould ? much more raw potential.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
Can we see if we can get him in the Troy Flavell mould ? much more raw potential.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
Can we see if we can get him in the Troy Flavell mould ? much more raw potential.
And a YC possibility each game…..
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
Can we see if we can get him in the Troy Flavell mould ? much more raw potential.
And a YC possibility each game…..
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
Can we see if we can get him in the Troy Flavell mould ? much more raw potential.
And a YC possibility each game…..
I meant more the good stuff.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
Can we see if we can get him in the Troy Flavell mould ? much more raw potential.
And a YC possibility each game…..
I meant more the good stuff.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
Can we see if we can get him in the Troy Flavell mould ? much more raw potential.
And a YC possibility each game…..
I meant more the good stuff.
The Troy Flavell style grub doesn't really exist in NZ rugby anymore
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
Can we see if we can get him in the Troy Flavell mould ? much more raw potential.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
Can we see if we can get him in the Troy Flavell mould ? much more raw potential.
He's no where near as fast as Flavell was.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
Can we see if we can get him in the Troy Flavell mould ? much more raw potential.
And a YC possibility each game…..
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
Can we see if we can get him in the Troy Flavell mould ? much more raw potential.
And a YC possibility each game…..
TBF to Troy, most of his yellow cards today would probably be red cards.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
Can we see if we can get him in the Troy Flavell mould ? much more raw potential.
And a YC possibility each game…..
I meant more the good stuff.
The Troy Flavell style grub doesn't really exist in NZ rugby anymore
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Beehre is a genuine 6/lock option in the Jono Gibbes mould. Has good physicality too.
Can we see if we can get him in the Troy Flavell mould ? much more raw potential.
And a YC possibility each game…..
I meant more the good stuff.
The Troy Flavell style grub doesn't really exist in NZ rugby anymore
Again, I was talking about the versatility and amazing athleticism but this is a good point
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Real shame Zack Gallagher is going, he has made a real decent fist of playing 6 in the NPC and looks like he could have proved useful in this position at Super level,. Canterbury lineout has been a real defensive weapon with 4 genuine jumping options.
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AB’s are joining up at camp today. About the only AB oil I’ve had recently
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Real shame Zack Gallagher is going, he has made a real decent fist of playing 6 in the NPC and looks like he could have proved useful in this position at Super level,. Canterbury lineout has been a real defensive weapon with 4 genuine jumping options.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
Moving past all the posts deliberately misreading my earlier post attempting to clearly explain why Blues player may be feeling a bit of the miff, can someone please convince me the current loose forward policy is more subtle than:
1 Play Ardie where he likes and flog him as much as possible.
2 Choose an 8 that is most like Ardie if Ardie plays 7 or a small scrapper if Ardie plays at 8.*
3 Find someone as big as possible at 6.
4. Wait for Shannon.*(Maybe steps 2 and 3 are in the wrong order of importance.)
I must be missing some of their longterm strategies and objectives. I just don't see the loose forward balance, teamwork, and collective impact improving at the moment. I must be missing something.
I personally don’t think the loose forward trio can ever be balanced with Ardie in it. It’s like having half a forward and half a back.
The 2014 2nd Bledisloe test match was on the ABs YouTube the other day and I watched it. What stood out the most was how dynamic and hard working our loose forward trio was. McCaw, Kaino, and Read were throwing themselves into everything and they complemented each other so well. There wasn’t a weak link.
There are options at 6 and 7. 8 is still a bit of a question mark
@jimmyb
Upvote for using complemented. -
Oil update.
Jason Holland to step down after the end of year tour I’m hearing.
Reliable source, as always will wear it if wrong but have no reason to believe it isn’t accurate. Very interesting development. Can expect a possible announcement over the next day or week.
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Oil update.
Jason Holland to step down after the end of year tour I’m hearing.
Reliable source, as always will wear it if wrong but have no reason to believe it isn’t accurate. Very interesting development. Can expect a possible announcement over the next day or week.
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2025:
Oil update.
Jason Holland to step down after the end of year tour I’m hearing.
Reliable source, as always will wear it if wrong but have no reason to believe it isn’t accurate. Very interesting development. Can expect a possible announcement over the next day or week.
It would be a good move for the ABs if it is true which coming from you great chance it is spot on.,
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@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2025:
Oil update.
Jason Holland to step down after the end of year tour I’m hearing.
Reliable source, as always will wear it if wrong but have no reason to believe it isn’t accurate. Very interesting development. Can expect a possible announcement over the next day or week.
It would be a good move for the ABs if it is true which coming from you great chance it is spot on.,
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2025:
Oil update.
Jason Holland to step down after the end of year tour I’m hearing.
Reliable source, as always will wear it if wrong but have no reason to believe it isn’t accurate. Very interesting development. Can expect a possible announcement over the next day or week.
It would be a good move for the ABs if it is true which coming from you great chance it is spot on.,
It would be the second ‘backs’ or ‘attack’ coach in as many years to walk out the door… I find it a little concerning.
He was also the only non Crusader coach in the group.
