All Blacks 2025
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
Is this an piss-take by Hansen?
What next - "we've realised scoring points is important in achieving wins"
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
Is this an piss-take by Hansen?
What next - "we've realised scoring points is important in achieving wins"
It may be glaringly fucking obvious, but it is at least correct - and that is a change for the better, even if it doesnt exactly inspire confidence in his brainpower.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Media stirring the pot? If not, fuck Mounga for that shitty attitude.
NZ Rugby's decision means Robertson must ignore Mo'unga when he picks his squad for the All Blacks' "Rugby's Greatest Rivalry'' tour of South Africa.
Mo'unga is understood to be underwhelmed at the prospect of playing in front of small crowds in the NPC while the All Blacks tour the Republic, but unless the NZ Rugby board switches its stance he will be tethered to Canterbury.That would be pretty unfair on the players who have been playing Super and NPC and have been committed to the ABs and have made the team on form.
He is back to give us a better chance at winning the RWC.
He is Robertsons man and has been chasing him since he left.
We only have a small window before the RWC so get him in at the earliest opportunity.
This is pro sport and it is meant to be a hugh performance environment. Fuck fair. Embrace excellence (not seen much of that addmittedly)
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Media stirring the pot? If not, fuck Mounga for that shitty attitude.
NZ Rugby's decision means Robertson must ignore Mo'unga when he picks his squad for the All Blacks' "Rugby's Greatest Rivalry'' tour of South Africa.
Mo'unga is understood to be underwhelmed at the prospect of playing in front of small crowds in the NPC while the All Blacks tour the Republic, but unless the NZ Rugby board switches its stance he will be tethered to Canterbury.That would be pretty unfair on the players who have been playing Super and NPC and have been committed to the ABs and have made the team on form.
He is back to give us a better chance at winning the RWC.
He is Robertsons man and has been chasing him since he left.
We only have a small window before the RWC so get him in at the earliest opportunity.
This is pro sport and it is meant to be a hugh performance environment. Fuck fair. Embrace excellence (not seen much of that addmittedly)
If he makes the team on form I agree. But I'm concerned that Razor is a sentimental selector and goes too much off of past exploits and vibes.
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I don't think anybody would have a problem with any player coming back, performing well and being selected on form.
Rolling out the red carpet, bemoaning their leaving when it was their money driven decision, and treating them as if they are an incumbent and are owed something is not on at all. -
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Media stirring the pot? If not, fuck Mounga for that shitty attitude.
NZ Rugby's decision means Robertson must ignore Mo'unga when he picks his squad for the All Blacks' "Rugby's Greatest Rivalry'' tour of South Africa.
Mo'unga is understood to be underwhelmed at the prospect of playing in front of small crowds in the NPC while the All Blacks tour the Republic, but unless the NZ Rugby board switches its stance he will be tethered to Canterbury.That would be pretty unfair on the players who have been playing Super and NPC and have been committed to the ABs and have made the team on form.
He is back to give us a better chance at winning the RWC.
He is Robertsons man and has been chasing him since he left.
We only have a small window before the RWC so get him in at the earliest opportunity.
This is pro sport and it is meant to be a hugh performance environment. Fuck fair. Embrace excellence (not seen much of that addmittedly)
If he makes the team on form I agree. But I'm concerned that Razor is a sentimental selector and goes too much off of past exploits and vibes.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Media stirring the pot? If not, fuck Mounga for that shitty attitude.
NZ Rugby's decision means Robertson must ignore Mo'unga when he picks his squad for the All Blacks' "Rugby's Greatest Rivalry'' tour of South Africa.
Mo'unga is understood to be underwhelmed at the prospect of playing in front of small crowds in the NPC while the All Blacks tour the Republic, but unless the NZ Rugby board switches its stance he will be tethered to Canterbury.That would be pretty unfair on the players who have been playing Super and NPC and have been committed to the ABs and have made the team on form.
He is back to give us a better chance at winning the RWC.
He is Robertsons man and has been chasing him since he left.
We only have a small window before the RWC so get him in at the earliest opportunity.
This is pro sport and it is meant to be a hugh performance environment. Fuck fair. Embrace excellence (not seen much of that addmittedly)
If he makes the team on form I agree. But I'm concerned that Razor is a sentimental selector and goes too much off of past exploits and vibes.
I dont think he will get the chance to show form in NZ.
He is brought back for one thing. Get him in asap to give us a better chance at that one thing
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
The referees for the tour games:
Ireland v New Zealand - Pierre Brousset (FFR)
Scotland v New Zealand - Nic Berry (RA)
England v New Zealand - Andrea Piardi (FIR)
Wales v New Zealand - Hollie Davidson (SRU)Barbarians v All Blacks XV - Nic Berry (RA)
England A v All Blacks XV - TBA (RFU appointment)
Uruguay v All Blacks XV - TBA (FFR appointment)Oh good. Random Frog I've never heard of v Ireland. That'll help.
Did you notice the first female ref for an AB game, I think ever?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
The referees for the tour games:
Ireland v New Zealand - Pierre Brousset (FFR)
Scotland v New Zealand - Nic Berry (RA)
England v New Zealand - Andrea Piardi (FIR)
Wales v New Zealand - Hollie Davidson (SRU)Barbarians v All Blacks XV - Nic Berry (RA)
England A v All Blacks XV - TBA (RFU appointment)
Uruguay v All Blacks XV - TBA (FFR appointment)Oh good. Random Frog I've never heard of v Ireland. That'll help.
Did you notice the first female ref for an AB game, I think ever?
Not greatly fussed. Have seen her ref. Have seen worse.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
Is this an piss-take by Hansen?
What next - "we've realised scoring points is important in achieving wins"
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
Is this an piss-take by Hansen?
What next - "we've realised scoring points is important in achieving wins"
When i first heard him i quite liked him. But maybe its because I have been in the corporate world for a long time.
He does come across as overly corporate speak that isnt really useful. Could have had a part in succession
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@Chris-B I think that's my frustration. Both of those lads could have gone to another level with the right coaching and investment.
God knows what happened in Dunedin but putting him outside the top 50 players in the country is some grudge.
Ironically, I expected Razor's superpower to be man management, but I am not seeing a lot of that play out at the moment.
Hansen lost Piutau and Luatua overseas - both who would have plugged big holes in our 2019 squad. How people feel is really important to get them to stay and perform at the top level.
Also, the ABs does not feel like an elite performance environment at the moment. No one is writing books on how good BB is at the ten jersey - we have slipped from leading the way with professionalism to being old fashioned also rans. It's very frustrating.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
Piutau and Luatua
A couple of names damned to obscurity. Might have made some money I suppose, but gave up potential greatness.
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
And when you realise how much the money helped Piutau and his family in general, you'll also understand it. It comes across as greed, but it's far from it.
Yeah, Hansen didn't need to treat Luatua like he did throughout his tenure. He didn't need to publicly humiliate him over his fitness in 2014, and as you said, his communication towards him was poor, and then sure enough, he has a big cry when he leaves.
Some of Hansen's dealings with players post RWC 2015, hmmm..........
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
Vito could have stayed longer too in my opinion.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Media stirring the pot? If not, fuck Mounga for that shitty attitude.
NZ Rugby's decision means Robertson must ignore Mo'unga when he picks his squad for the All Blacks' "Rugby's Greatest Rivalry'' tour of South Africa.
Mo'unga is understood to be underwhelmed at the prospect of playing in front of small crowds in the NPC while the All Blacks tour the Republic, but unless the NZ Rugby board switches its stance he will be tethered to Canterbury.That would be pretty unfair on the players who have been playing Super and NPC and have been committed to the ABs and have made the team on form.
He is back to give us a better chance at winning the RWC.
He is Robertsons man and has been chasing him since he left.
We only have a small window before the RWC so get him in at the earliest opportunity.
This is pro sport and it is meant to be a hugh performance environment. Fuck fair. Embrace excellence (not seen much of that addmittedly)
If he makes the team on form I agree. But I'm concerned that Razor is a sentimental selector and goes too much off of past exploits and vibes.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Media stirring the pot? If not, fuck Mounga for that shitty attitude.
NZ Rugby's decision means Robertson must ignore Mo'unga when he picks his squad for the All Blacks' "Rugby's Greatest Rivalry'' tour of South Africa.
Mo'unga is understood to be underwhelmed at the prospect of playing in front of small crowds in the NPC while the All Blacks tour the Republic, but unless the NZ Rugby board switches its stance he will be tethered to Canterbury.That would be pretty unfair on the players who have been playing Super and NPC and have been committed to the ABs and have made the team on form.
He is back to give us a better chance at winning the RWC.
He is Robertsons man and has been chasing him since he left.
We only have a small window before the RWC so get him in at the earliest opportunity.
This is pro sport and it is meant to be a hugh performance environment. Fuck fair. Embrace excellence (not seen much of that addmittedly)
If he makes the team on form I agree. But I'm concerned that Razor is a sentimental selector and goes too much off of past exploits and vibes.
My youngest son has a teen for a coach and he's a vibe coach too.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
Vito could have stayed longer too in my opinion.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
Vito could have stayed longer too in my opinion.
Amazing athlete, possibly lacked a bit of a mean streak though ?
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
Vito could have stayed longer too in my opinion.
Amazing athlete, possibly lacked a bit of a mean streak though ?
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
Vito could have stayed longer too in my opinion.
Amazing athlete, possibly lacked a bit of a mean streak though ?
fits our 6 needs better though I suspect. And a ball carrier.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
Vito could have stayed longer too in my opinion.
Amazing athlete, possibly lacked a bit of a mean streak though ?
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
Vito could have stayed longer too in my opinion.
Amazing athlete, possibly lacked a bit of a mean streak though ?
Played lovely stuff in France after he left.
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So post 2015 we have had a succession of coaches that don't appear to be able to get the best out of a bunch of pretty good players. Is that a failure to relate, is it fault on the part of the players, or more likely a bunch of factors that made these guys leave?
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
Vito could have stayed longer too in my opinion.
Amazing athlete, possibly lacked a bit of a mean streak though ?
fits our 6 needs better though I suspect. And a ball carrier.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
gave up potential greatness
Piutau got offered a big fat contract (biggest in the history of the league I think, when English rugby was flush). I can understand it.
Luatua went saying the selectors didn't talk to him - and Hansen threw his toys. He should have been our blindside for at least a world cup cycle - was some player.
Vito could have stayed longer too in my opinion.
Amazing athlete, possibly lacked a bit of a mean streak though ?
fits our 6 needs better though I suspect. And a ball carrier.
Vito was also a top lineout jumper. He used to be the main target at the Canes for a number of years.
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So post 2015 we have had a succession of coaches that don't appear to be able to get the best out of a bunch of pretty good players. Is that a failure to relate, is it fault on the part of the players, or more likely a bunch of factors that made these guys leave?
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
So post 2015 we have had a succession of coaches that don't appear to be able to get the best out of a bunch of pretty good players. Is that a failure to relate, is it fault on the part of the players, or more likely a bunch of factors that made these guys leave?
Its a coaching/management failure. Every one of these guys could have been world class just by giving them test matches, experience and managing them better.
Victor Vito
Steve Luatua
Liam Squire
Vaea Fifita
Akira Ioane -
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
So post 2015 we have had a succession of coaches that don't appear to be able to get the best out of a bunch of pretty good players. Is that a failure to relate, is it fault on the part of the players, or more likely a bunch of factors that made these guys leave?
Its a coaching/management failure. Every one of these guys could have been world class just by giving them test matches, experience and managing them better.
Victor Vito
Steve Luatua
Liam Squire
Vaea Fifita
Akira Ioane@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
So post 2015 we have had a succession of coaches that don't appear to be able to get the best out of a bunch of pretty good players. Is that a failure to relate, is it fault on the part of the players, or more likely a bunch of factors that made these guys leave?
Its a coaching/management failure. Every one of these guys could have been world class just by giving them test matches, experience and managing them better.
Victor Vito
Steve Luatua
Liam Squire
Vaea Fifita
Akira IoaneIf you look at the current squad I'd say only Finau at 26 has similar physical talents to these guys. Maybe Parker too.
That's why Finau should be persevered with. Just stick with him. He's only played 1 easier test against Japan but we have won 83.3% of tests that he has played in. We've only won 60% of tests Parker has played in.
Finau is not costing us tests. His contributions have been underrated. Continuing to play him is low risk if we win when he plays but the upside of his development is more than any other 6 option we have in the country at the moment. Maybe Wrampling-Alec has potential but he needs some solid Super experience. Howden loses a lot of ball. Haig and Stoddart need some wins under their belt. Flanders is better suited to 8.
Finau's half way to 20 to 30 tests. After that we can probably get some top games out of him - he has the potential to be world class at that stage. Just keep developing him.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
So post 2015 we have had a succession of coaches that don't appear to be able to get the best out of a bunch of pretty good players. Is that a failure to relate, is it fault on the part of the players, or more likely a bunch of factors that made these guys leave?
Its a coaching/management failure. Every one of these guys could have been world class just by giving them test matches, experience and managing them better.
Victor Vito
Steve Luatua
Liam Squire
Vaea Fifita
Akira Ioane@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
So post 2015 we have had a succession of coaches that don't appear to be able to get the best out of a bunch of pretty good players. Is that a failure to relate, is it fault on the part of the players, or more likely a bunch of factors that made these guys leave?
Its a coaching/management failure. Every one of these guys could have been world class just by giving them test matches, experience and managing them better.
Victor Vito
Steve Luatua
Liam Squire
Vaea Fifita
Akira IoaneI do't think being given lack of chances applied to them all. Luatua, Fifita, and Akira yep, they could have had more. But:
Vito got lots of chances, he was just up against Kaino for the main spot, and Messam for the back up (who had a purple patch of form when Kaino was out for a bit). But in spite of that he had a good AB career. and won two RWC's.
Squire was injured then had his mental health issues which meant he couldn't really nail down the spot.
