All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.
Set game plan, pick accordingly.
Yep - and that kinda brings us full circle - back to an extended version of @Mauss original point - that it looks like we just don't know what we want from our 6 when we keep alternating between picking tight and loose ones.
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.
Set game plan, pick accordingly.
Yep - and that kinda brings us full circle - back to an extended version of @Mauss original point - that it looks like we just don't know what we want from our 6 when we keep alternating between picking tight and loose ones.
I disagree with the premise of 'tight' versus 'loose' (or at least his application and sorting of the options), but I'm with him on the overall point and enjoyed the analysis. you're right, we are very engaged fans but probably can't say with any real confidence how the coaches want the team to play. If that is the side to side Crusaders game plan, then we'll need some very different players. I can see that @mariner4life has already beaten me to the punch on this, but at the minimum we'll need a very different midfield.
-
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Against France the pattern seemed very similar to the Crusaders style. There was a lot of ball movement to the wider channels. The same approach was used against England in the first tests.
It's a high speed, high mobility game plan.
see, you say that with such confidence, and then you look at the team sheet.
Pick two poor distributors in the midfield and play them flat and tight. Drop your best passer at 10 and put in an instinctive run-first player who kicks a LOT.
The plan, and the players selected, do not match up
@mariner4life said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Against France the pattern seemed very similar to the Crusaders style. There was a lot of ball movement to the wider channels. The same approach was used against England in the first tests.
It's a high speed, high mobility game plan.
The plan, and the players selected, do not match up
That's easily explained. They also have a compulsion to pick experience.
Their bias to selecting Crusaders in the wider squad suggests they want to pick players who are familiar with that game. Players who they originally picked for the Crusaders squad to match that game plan.
They have conflicting heuristics.
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.
Set game plan, pick accordingly.
The problem is our high-temp game seems to be to pick "quick and busy" loose forwards so we can win the race to the breakdown (hence our love of 7.5's) but that detracts from our ability to carry the ball into contact with heavy runners hence we endlessly recycle the ball going sideways across the field if we encounter stout defence and then our playmakers give away possession with a stupid kick or hail Mary pass.
If we don't get go-forward our back up or play or territory plays are quite simply stupid and fustrating, pull the forwards together and pick and go, or slow things down, set a chase line and kick and chase a contestable kick but more than often we hail mary, silly chip kick, or put up a high ball with only 1 person chasing or contesting....
The above has been my endless fustration with the AB team for years, as it was under Fozzie and now as it is under Razor, nothing really appers to have changed.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.
Set game plan, pick accordingly.
The problem is our high-temp game seems to be to pick "quick and busy" loose forwards so we can win the race to the breakdown (hence our love of 7.5's) but that detracts from our ability to carry the ball into contact with heavy runners hence we endlessly recycle the ball going sideways across the field if we encounter stout defence and then our playmakers give away possession with a stupid kick or hail Mary pass.
If we don't get go-forward our back up or play or territory plays are quite simply stupid and fustrating, pull the forwards together and pick and go, or slow things down, set a chase line and kick and chase a contestable kick but more than often we hail mary, silly chip kick, or put up a high ball with only 1 person chasing or contesting....
The above has been my endless fustration with the AB team for years, as it was under Fozzie and now as it is under Razor, nothing really appers to have changed.
More often than not, there is one player who continually does this, and he keeps getting picked and praised by the coaches.
-
@Windows97 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.
Set game plan, pick accordingly.
The problem is our high-temp game seems to be to pick "quick and busy" loose forwards so we can win the race to the breakdown (hence our love of 7.5's) but that detracts from our ability to carry the ball into contact with heavy runners hence we endlessly recycle the ball going sideways across the field if we encounter stout defence and then our playmakers give away possession with a stupid kick or hail Mary pass.
If we don't get go-forward our back up or play or territory plays are quite simply stupid and fustrating, pull the forwards together and pick and go, or slow things down, set a chase line and kick and chase a contestable kick but more than often we hail mary, silly chip kick, or put up a high ball with only 1 person chasing or contesting....
The above has been my endless fustration with the AB team for years, as it was under Fozzie and now as it is under Razor, nothing really appers to have changed.
More often than not, there is one player who continually does this, and he keeps getting picked and praised by the coaches.
Because experience.
-
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Against France the pattern seemed very similar to the Crusaders style. There was a lot of ball movement to the wider channels. The same approach was used against England in the first tests.
It's a high speed, high mobility game plan.
see, you say that with such confidence, and then you look at the team sheet.
Pick two poor distributors in the midfield and play them flat and tight. Drop your best passer at 10 and put in an instinctive run-first player who kicks a LOT.
The plan, and the players selected, do not match up
@mariner4life said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Against France the pattern seemed very similar to the Crusaders style. There was a lot of ball movement to the wider channels. The same approach was used against England in the first tests.
It's a high speed, high mobility game plan.
see, you say that with such confidence, and then you look at the team sheet.
Pick two poor distributors in the midfield and play them flat and tight. Drop your best passer at 10 and put in an instinctive run-first player who kicks a LOT.
The plan, and the players selected, do not match up
Whcih makes it really hard for the casual observer to see what the game-plan actually is...
Obviously it's all part of the coaching genuis - after all if we don't know what the game plan there's no way the opposition will know the game plan therefore they be completly incapbable of countering it!! It has shades of Blackadder (the TV series - not the player).
-
There is bound to be a loose forward or 2 unlucky to miss out, I just hope it doesn't end up being an uncapped guy. I'd far rather see them give Parker a go, then Jacobson.
-
Kirifi reminds me of Kwaga Smith. He's a tough character and punches above his weight but I think he only works because there is always at least one 120kg other guy in the backrow to balance things out.
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Kirifi reminds me of Kwaga Smith. He's a tough character and punches above his weight but I think he only works because there is always at least one 120kg other guy in the backrow to balance things out.
Serious bench option, he would be good against tiring packs, would empty the tank in 25 minutes
-
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Kirifi reminds me of Kwaga Smith. He's a tough character and punches above his weight but I think he only works because there is always at least one 120kg other guy in the backrow to balance things out.
Serious bench option, he would be good against tiring packs, would empty the tank in 25 minutes
@canefan said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Kirifi reminds me of Kwaga Smith. He's a tough character and punches above his weight but I think he only works because there is always at least one 120kg other guy in the backrow to balance things out.
Serious bench option, he would be good against tiring packs, would empty the tank in 25 minutes
we don't sub at 55 mins, we sub at 65-70 mins and wonder why our subs can't get in the game.
we're playing by 2015 thinking
-
@canefan said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Kirifi reminds me of Kwaga Smith. He's a tough character and punches above his weight but I think he only works because there is always at least one 120kg other guy in the backrow to balance things out.
Serious bench option, he would be good against tiring packs, would empty the tank in 25 minutes
we don't sub at 55 mins, we sub at 65-70 mins and wonder why our subs can't get in the game.
we're playing by 2015 thinking
@mariner4life said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@canefan said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Kirifi reminds me of Kwaga Smith. He's a tough character and punches above his weight but I think he only works because there is always at least one 120kg other guy in the backrow to balance things out.
Serious bench option, he would be good against tiring packs, would empty the tank in 25 minutes
we don't sub at 55 mins, we sub at 65-70 mins and wonder why our subs can't get in the game.
we're playing by 2015 thinking
-
@canefan said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Kirifi reminds me of Kwaga Smith. He's a tough character and punches above his weight but I think he only works because there is always at least one 120kg other guy in the backrow to balance things out.
Serious bench option, he would be good against tiring packs, would empty the tank in 25 minutes
we don't sub at 55 mins, we sub at 65-70 mins and wonder why our subs can't get in the game.
we're playing by 2015 thinking
@mariner4life but 2015 is the template for success, no need to change.
-
@mariner4life but 2015 is the template for success, no need to change.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@mariner4life but 2015 is the template for success, no need to change.
explains a few things. Beaudy continuing to get picked etc
oh shit he came on at 65 mins as well!!!
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.
Set game plan, pick accordingly.
Yep - and that kinda brings us full circle - back to an extended version of @Mauss original point - that it looks like we just don't know what we want from our 6 when we keep alternating between picking tight and loose ones.
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.
Set game plan, pick accordingly.
Yep - and that kinda brings us full circle - back to an extended version of @Mauss original point - that it looks like we just don't know what we want from our 6 when we keep alternating between picking tight and loose ones.
There’s an extended version to @Mauss point? Not sure if there is enough bandwidth on the Fern server for the extended version
Jokes….
-
@frugby said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
If we want impact off the bench, then Big Jim is the way to go, but it won’t happen.
I don't think it comes down to any one player. You need multiple impact players off the bench instead of players who just cover for injury.
If you look at 2015 RWC we were stacked with players who offered impact:
HK 16 Keven Mealamu upward-facing green arrow 65'
PR 17 Ben Franks upward-facing green arrow 59'
PR 18 Charlie Faumuina upward-facing green arrow 54'
N8 19 Victor Vito upward-facing green arrow 71'
FL 20 Sam Cane upward-facing green arrow 80'
SH 21 Tawera Kerr-Barlow upward-facing green arrow 71'
FH 22 Beauden Barrett upward-facing green arrow 65'
CE 23 Sonny Bill Williams upward-facing green arrow 40'We started bringing them on in the 40th minute.
We need multiple impact players and we need to bring them on earlier.
Considering the players who are fit a bench like this could offer such impact:
- Taukei'aho/Aumua
- Numia/Fusitu'a
- Tosi
- Tuipulotu
- Kirifi/Finau/Sititi/Sotutu/Savea
- Ratima/Hotham
- Love/Mckenzie
- Tavatavanawai/Lam/Tupaea
Not so much impact with the likes of these:
De Groot, Newell, Jacobson, Papali'i, Havili, ALB.
-
@frugby said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
If we want impact off the bench, then Big Jim is the way to go, but it won’t happen.
I don't think it comes down to any one player. You need multiple impact players off the bench instead of players who just cover for injury.
If you look at 2015 RWC we were stacked with players who offered impact:
HK 16 Keven Mealamu upward-facing green arrow 65'
PR 17 Ben Franks upward-facing green arrow 59'
PR 18 Charlie Faumuina upward-facing green arrow 54'
N8 19 Victor Vito upward-facing green arrow 71'
FL 20 Sam Cane upward-facing green arrow 80'
SH 21 Tawera Kerr-Barlow upward-facing green arrow 71'
FH 22 Beauden Barrett upward-facing green arrow 65'
CE 23 Sonny Bill Williams upward-facing green arrow 40'We started bringing them on in the 40th minute.
We need multiple impact players and we need to bring them on earlier.
Considering the players who are fit a bench like this could offer such impact:
- Taukei'aho/Aumua
- Numia/Fusitu'a
- Tosi
- Tuipulotu
- Kirifi/Finau/Sititi/Sotutu/Savea
- Ratima/Hotham
- Love/Mckenzie
- Tavatavanawai/Lam/Tupaea
Not so much impact with the likes of these:
De Groot, Newell, Jacobson, Papali'i, Havili, ALB.
-
Whilst I agree with the main point here, Ben Franks wasn't exactly Mr Impact - there is no need to choose these players only on their ability to affect play through ball running etc - we still need cleaners and a strong set piece.
-
Parsons mentioned on Aotearoa Rugby Pod that he would pick Savea, Sititi, Kirifi and Jacobsen as his first four choices in the loose and then said the last two were up in the air. Blackadder, Lakai, Finau, Papali'i and Parker are all obvious options that could be in the frame.
-
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 Some might say that Ben was very dynamic with his carries compared to Owen.
Barry Schwartz says the secret to happiness is low expectations.
Ben Franks was an excellent cleaner and incredibly mobile around the field.
I think there are 4 or 5 in here, one which saves the movement.
