All Blacks v France II
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France II:
For the movement in question where Beauden hits a ruck Tosi, Taukei'aho, Finau, and Kirifi all hit rucks in that movement. Savea and Norris do not.
All of the forwards apart from Vaa'i are lined up on one side of the ruck when Beauden switches play away from the forwards so the main reason why Beauden needs to attend that ruck is he switches play to a side of the field which has no forward support once Vaa'i is the carrier.
At some point of the game all 10's will need to hit a ruck - especially if its due to a play of their own making. This particular incident isn't evidence that Tosi and Norris don't hit enough rucks.
You’re right in that the Barrett and Jordan clean isn’t evidence, it’s more meant as an example. The evidence is that Newell and de Groot cleaned the attacking ruck at rates of 40 cleans/80min and 29 cleans/80min, while their replacements did so at a rate of 14.5 and 17 cleans per 80min respectively.
The example I just found interesting, because of how Norris had become removed so far from the play all of a sudden. I think if you compare the build-up between the Jordan-try in Dunedin and the Ioane-try in Wellington, and only focus on the positioning and actions of the props, I think the different patterns are quite noticeable.
@Mauss said in All Blacks v France II:
You’re right in that the Barrett and Jordan clean isn’t evidence, it’s more meant as an example. The evidence is that Newell and de Groot cleaned the attacking ruck at rates of 40 cleans/80min and 29 cleans/80min, while their replacements did so at a rate of 14.5 and 17 cleans per 80min respectively.
Yes the rate doesn't take into account the fact we dominated possession in the first half while the French came back in the second half and dominated possession. Potentially the sample is too small to extrapolate anything. Please see my earlier response which posts the ruck attendance stats over the course of the SRP season.
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@Dan54 Chat GTP makes it 4. But I seem to remember one with the Blues as well.
Beauden Barrett has been shown a yellow card eight times across his professional rugby career:
• Four yellow cards came during his international career with the All Blacks.
• Four more were received while playing Super Rugby for the Hurricanes. He hasn’t received any for the Blues yet. To break it down a bit further:
Team/Competition Yellow Cards
New Zealand All Blacks (tests) 4
Hurricanes (Super Rugby) 4
Blues (Super Rugby) 0His first yellow came in 2013 during the Rugby Championship, and the most recent was against England during the 2022 Autumn Internationals   . Additionally, he also received a yellow as recently as July 12, 2025, for an illegal knock-on against France in Wellington .
⸻
Beauden Barrett has received four yellow cards specifically for deliberate knock-ons during his career:
1. Super Rugby (Hurricanes vs. Waratahs, April 2017)
He picked up two yellows in the same game for deliberate knock-downs, which led to a red card as they accumulated .
2. International Test (All Blacks vs. Wales, Autumn 2021)
Barrett was sin‑binned for a one‑handed knock-on during a breakaway attempt .
3. Test Match (All Blacks vs. France, July 12, 2025)
He was shown a yellow for an “illegally knocked the ball down” block on what looked like a French try-bound pass .So in summary:
• 2 yellows (Waratahs, 2017)
• 1 yellow (Wales, 2021)
• 1 yellow (France, 2025)
️ Total deliberate knock-on yellows: 4 -
Took a quick look at BB's games history.
If you ignore the last two games we played against France B/C Beauden has managed a total of two wins across the games he started at 10 against France, South Africa, and Ireland during the twenties.
@brodean How does that compare with all other players? We haven't done well against these teams in the 20s, so imagine there not a lot of good win stats for players. I actually thought RMo started most of the tests at 10 between 2020 and 2023, but perhaps I missed BB starting a few games against Boks?
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France II:
I'm confused, I thought Rassie is the devil. Is it Fabien now?
Pretty dick move though.
I don't think Rassie would ever make a bitch move like that
@canefan said in All Blacks v France II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France II:
I'm confused, I thought Rassie is the devil. Is it Fabien now?
Pretty dick move though.
I don't think Rassie would ever make a bitch move like that
I think you think wrong.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v France II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France II:
I'm confused, I thought Rassie is the devil. Is it Fabien now?
Pretty dick move though.
I don't think Rassie would ever make a bitch move like that
I think you think wrong.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France II:
I'm confused, I thought Rassie is the devil. Is it Fabien now?
Pretty dick move though.
I don't think Rassie would ever make a bitch move like that
I think you think wrong.
He wouldn't think twice about pushing to the line, or even crossing the line to get an edge on the field. But he'd be in the sheds having a beer after. Skipping the trophy presentation is a bitch move down there with the Welsh making the ABs do the haka in the change rooms before the match
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France II:
I'm confused, I thought Rassie is the devil. Is it Fabien now?
Pretty dick move though.
I don't think Rassie would ever make a bitch move like that
I think you think wrong.
He wouldn't think twice about pushing to the line, or even crossing the line to get an edge on the field. But he'd be in the sheds having a beer after. Skipping the trophy presentation is a bitch move down there with the Welsh making the ABs do the haka in the change rooms before the match
@canefan said in All Blacks v France II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France II:
I'm confused, I thought Rassie is the devil. Is it Fabien now?
Pretty dick move though.
I don't think Rassie would ever make a bitch move like that
I think you think wrong.
He wouldn't think twice about pushing to the line, or even crossing the line to get an edge on the field. But he'd be in the sheds having a beer after. Skipping the trophy presentation is a bitch move down there with the Welsh making the ABs do the haka in the change rooms before the match
I would need a heck of a lot of convincing before I could believe a word of that.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France II:
I'm confused, I thought Rassie is the devil. Is it Fabien now?
Pretty dick move though.
I don't think Rassie would ever make a bitch move like that
I think you think wrong.
He wouldn't think twice about pushing to the line, or even crossing the line to get an edge on the field. But he'd be in the sheds having a beer after. Skipping the trophy presentation is a bitch move down there with the Welsh making the ABs do the haka in the change rooms before the match
@canefan said in All Blacks v France II:
Skipping the trophy presentation is a bitch move down there with the Welsh making the ABs do the haka in the change rooms before the match
Well that did curse the Welsh for 18 games...
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It's always fun reading match threads days after the fact.
While we are piling on BB, was he actually on the field when Taylor scored his try? I didn't see him from the TV footage.
If so, under what law was he allowed to take the conversion? I was quite looking forward to seeing Roigard have a kick.
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@DaGrubster Sportsmanship means different things in different societies, especially in this commercial era, although I've found one universal in great Rugby heartlands is superb hospitality, very much including the south of France.
I'm relaxed about the French making their own decisions about what Rugby values means to them rather than demanding they follow our protocols. Hopefully, next Saturday will be a competitive test match with no hint of it being a dead rubber.
@sparky said in All Blacks v France II:
@DaGrubster Sportsmanship means different things in different societies, especially in this commercial era, although I've found one universal in great Rugby heartlands is superb hospitality, very much including the south of France.
I'm relaxed about the French making their own decisions about what Rugby values means to them rather than demanding they follow our protocols. Hopefully, next Saturday will be a competitive test match with no hint of it being a dead rubber.
Ask yourself if France were holding aloft the dave gallher trophy after winning the series, and we just sloped off to the sheds, i sm sure we would never hesr the end of it. -
@sparky said in All Blacks v France II:
@DaGrubster Sportsmanship means different things in different societies, especially in this commercial era, although I've found one universal in great Rugby heartlands is superb hospitality, very much including the south of France.
I'm relaxed about the French making their own decisions about what Rugby values means to them rather than demanding they follow our protocols. Hopefully, next Saturday will be a competitive test match with no hint of it being a dead rubber.
Ask yourself if France were holding aloft the dave gallher trophy after winning the series, and we just sloped off to the sheds, i sm sure we would never hesr the end of it.@DaGrubster New Zealand Rugby is all about giving your all for 80 minutes, then applauding the opposition if they score more points than you at the end or celebrating the win. Lots of talk of our DNA these days, but that's our true DNA. So yes, I'd be furious if the All Blacks ever sloped off before a trophy ceremony.
And I'm quite prepared to hold our boys to a higher account than I do the French.
But what values the French regard as important is their business.
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It's always fun reading match threads days after the fact.
While we are piling on BB, was he actually on the field when Taylor scored his try? I didn't see him from the TV footage.
If so, under what law was he allowed to take the conversion? I was quite looking forward to seeing Roigard have a kick.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v France II:
It's always fun reading match threads days after the fact.
While we are piling on BB, was he actually on the field when Taylor scored his try? I didn't see him from the TV footage.
If so, under what law was he allowed to take the conversion? I was quite looking forward to seeing Roigard have a kick.
I wondered that too Bovidae, BB's time wasn't on field and I half expected the ref to say you can't take kick. Had no idea if he could, but like you I wondered if it allowed.
Apparently it is. -
It's always fun reading match threads days after the fact.
While we are piling on BB, was he actually on the field when Taylor scored his try? I didn't see him from the TV footage.
If so, under what law was he allowed to take the conversion? I was quite looking forward to seeing Roigard have a kick.
@Bovidae I don't think there's anything in the laws that stipulates who can take a kick. Provided his yellow card ended around the time the try was scored, it would've been fine.
Suspect Jordie Barrett would've just taken the kick in his absence, as he did a few minutes earlier.
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@Bovidae I don't think there's anything in the laws that stipulates who can take a kick. Provided his yellow card ended around the time the try was scored, it would've been fine.
Suspect Jordie Barrett would've just taken the kick in his absence, as he did a few minutes earlier.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v France II:
Suspect Jordie Barrett would've just taken the kick in his absence, as he did a few minutes earlier.
Except he was also off for an HIA/blood bin.
BB got his YC at 18 mins and Taylor scored on 28 mins, so it was close. I reckon BB would have been waiting to get back on, and the next stoppage was the try. A little suss to me.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v France II:
Suspect Jordie Barrett would've just taken the kick in his absence, as he did a few minutes earlier.
Except he was also off for an HIA/blood bin.
BB got his YC at 18 mins and Taylor scored on 28 mins, so it was close. I reckon BB would have been waiting to get back on, and the next stoppage was the try. A little suss to me.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v France II:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v France II:
Suspect Jordie Barrett would've just taken the kick in his absence, as he did a few minutes earlier.
Except he was also off for an HIA/blood bin.
BB got his YC at 18 mins and Taylor scored on 28 mins, so it was close. I reckon BB would have been waiting to get back on, and the next stoppage was the try. A little suss to me.
Ah whoops, forgot that.
If the next stoppage was the try then it was entirely legitimate. A stoppage is a stoppage and you can make the change/bring the player back from the bin. Provided you still make your kick within the time allowed, no reason why it couldn't be a player coming back from the bin who's handed the tee.
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@brodean How does that compare with all other players? We haven't done well against these teams in the 20s, so imagine there not a lot of good win stats for players. I actually thought RMo started most of the tests at 10 between 2020 and 2023, but perhaps I missed BB starting a few games against Boks?
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France II:
@brodean How does that compare with all other players? We haven't done well against these teams in the 20s, so imagine there not a lot of good win stats for players. I actually thought RMo started most of the tests at 10 between 2020 and 2023, but perhaps I missed BB starting a few games against Boks?
There's not a lot you can read into because as you say RMo started a lot of the tests at 10.
The main point is he doesn't have a solid archive of games where he guides us to wins against the best teams as a 10. I still believe his best role is as an impact player off the bench.
He's got two more wins than Love against the best teams in the twenties. I would like to see Love start at 10.
No matter who France put out its still an experimental development side. Love is good enough to compete against those guys.
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Beauden Barrett getting rissolled from teh 10 shirt by i assume Joe Schmidt was a huge part of why the ABs turned their form around halfway through that tour to South Africa and saved Fosters job. RMo wasn't even great, he was just better than BB, and that's all that was needed (RMo was pretty bloody good by the World Cup play offs though).
And here we are, 3 years later, he's restored to the shirt, playing just as shit as he was then, yet seemingly nailed on to start. It defies belief.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France II:
@brodean How does that compare with all other players? We haven't done well against these teams in the 20s, so imagine there not a lot of good win stats for players. I actually thought RMo started most of the tests at 10 between 2020 and 2023, but perhaps I missed BB starting a few games against Boks?
There's not a lot you can read into because as you say RMo started a lot of the tests at 10.
The main point is he doesn't have a solid archive of games where he guides us to wins against the best teams as a 10. I still believe his best role is as an impact player off the bench.
He's got two more wins than Love against the best teams in the twenties. I would like to see Love start at 10.
No matter who France put out its still an experimental development side. Love is good enough to compete against those guys.
@brodean understand your point etc, but I doubt whether Love is even been considered starting for ABs this week, after about 4-5 games at most starting for Canes. And I a Canes man (and Love fan). I doubt any test coach in world would consider a starting 10 with so little experience.
