Red Cards & HIA
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lets extend that logic then, either they're all off or none off?
All off - early 2023 interpretations effectively - was massively unpopular as it punished an always high lethal clothes line to the face in the same way it punished an accidental, drop in height passive collision. Most of the unpopularity came from the SH from memory, particularly Aus.
None off - Always high, loads of time shot to the face which knocks a player out gets a yellow. No incentive not to tackle high, no attempt to deal with the concussion issue in rugby etc.
Personally I wouldn't like to see it, as rugby is a dynamic contact sport and an accident or nothing incident can spoil a game. I also think we have to try and deal with the concussion issue.
Therefore that doesn't feel realistic or desirable to me. Mitigation is crucial, clarity in decision making is crucial. Some disagreement is inevitable so we're stuck with it IMO
@Dodge said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
lets extend that logic then, either they're all off or none off?
All off - early 2023 interpretations effectively - was massively unpopular as it punished an always high lethal clothes line to the face in the same way it punished an accidental, drop in height passive collision. Most of the unpopularity came from the SH from memory, particularly Aus.
None off - Always high, loads of time shot to the face which knocks a player out gets a yellow. No incentive not to tackle high, no attempt to deal with the concussion issue in rugby etc.
Personally I wouldn't like to see it, as rugby is a dynamic contact sport and an accident or nothing incident can spoil a game. I also think we have to try and deal with the concussion issue.
Therefore that doesn't feel realistic or desirable to me. Mitigation is crucial, clarity in decision making is crucial. Some disagreement is inevitable so we're stuck with it IMO
Remember what’s driving this. Potential litigation down the road.
It’s not us arguing over whether an attempted intercept should be a yellow if knocked on.
We are being told that there is a problem with concussions in the game. Steve Thompson, Steve Divine etc. There has also been insinuations that concussions have led to suicides of some players. We also have a couple of high profile players with ALS. Not sure if related.
As I stated before. I’m old school. I liked when Bechers Brook was a hard fence to jump. I like car crashes in F1. I like ice hockey fights.
But fine, that was then, this is now. We need to clean everything up. And I am wrong. I’m the dinosaur.
BUT. If the head is sacred , it’s sacred.
Jessie Kriel was fine after Canes hit. Beaudy was fine after Beirnes. Savea was bloodied but fine after Kolisi’s. But we don’t ref on outcome we ref on the offence. So they should all be red. And as an addendum to that. If the ref is saying things like “High degree of danger”…it should be a mandatory HIA for the player who got hit in the head.
Otherwise this is all just window dressing and arse covering for the potential court case down the road and not a real effort to clean up the game.
I was quite happy with Rugby up until the mid 2010’s but what had happened since is not progress….its a far worse product we are being served up.
We went from nobody ever being sent off or sin binned, to not being able to get through a game without a team going down to 14 in the space of a few years.
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@gt12 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
There has to be a system that allows the game to flow with some penalty for the player, but doesn't ruin the event for fans.
I thought that was a Yellow with a Review.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@gt12 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
There has to be a system that allows the game to flow with some penalty for the player, but doesn't ruin the event for fans.
I thought that was a Yellow with a Review.
M’be there ought to be a time limit for decision? At least game proceeds either with full 15 or while bunker prevaricates!
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At 4:50 in the post match the journalist asked Razor: “It was the right call?” regarding the Beirne incident.
Razors riposte:
“it was a red card wasn’t it?, so then it’s a red card”.
Three days later world rugby tell us :
It is not a red card. -
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Shoulder to the head of a player, no attempt to get low. If it is not a red card under current rules, then what is?
If no one knows if this is a red or yellow, then it is a big problem with the clarity of the rules.
Just shows how broken the game is. -
lets extend that logic then, either they're all off or none off?
All off - early 2023 interpretations effectively - was massively unpopular as it punished an always high lethal clothes line to the face in the same way it punished an accidental, drop in height passive collision. Most of the unpopularity came from the SH from memory, particularly Aus.
None off - Always high, loads of time shot to the face which knocks a player out gets a yellow. No incentive not to tackle high, no attempt to deal with the concussion issue in rugby etc.
Personally I wouldn't like to see it, as rugby is a dynamic contact sport and an accident or nothing incident can spoil a game. I also think we have to try and deal with the concussion issue.
Therefore that doesn't feel realistic or desirable to me. Mitigation is crucial, clarity in decision making is crucial. Some disagreement is inevitable so we're stuck with it IMO
@Dodge said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
lets extend that logic then, either they're all off or none off?
All off - early 2023 interpretations effectively - was massively unpopular as it punished an always high lethal clothes line to the face in the same way it punished an accidental, drop in height passive collision. Most of the unpopularity came from the SH from memory, particularly Aus.
None off - Always high, loads of time shot to the face which knocks a player out gets a yellow. No incentive not to tackle high, no attempt to deal with the concussion issue in rugby etc.
Personally I wouldn't like to see it, as rugby is a dynamic contact sport and an accident or nothing incident can spoil a game. I also think we have to try and deal with the concussion issue.
Therefore that doesn't feel realistic or desirable to me. Mitigation is crucial, clarity in decision making is crucial. Some disagreement is inevitable so we're stuck with it IMO
How about KISS?
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Foul play head contact no HIA -- tackler on report. Two reports in game = YC
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Foul play head contact HIA -- automatic YC
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Mitigation stays yellow
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Clumsy no mitigation 20 minute red
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Deliberate straight red
Post match players on report review, with possibility of multi game suspesion if considered appropriate, e.g dangerous technique.
Game keeps flowing, and easy to ref!
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They were/are foaming in the mouth that Clarke didn’t get sent for his high shot of Tommy O Brien.
Clemency for me but none for thee seems to be the mantra.
@Jet said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
They were/are foaming in the mouth that Clarke didn’t get sent for his high shot of Tommy O Brien.
Clemency for me but none for thee seems to be the mantra.
I was wondering if that would be brought up
No replays but captain asked the ref to look at it
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@Dodge said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
lets extend that logic then, either they're all off or none off?
All off - early 2023 interpretations effectively - was massively unpopular as it punished an always high lethal clothes line to the face in the same way it punished an accidental, drop in height passive collision. Most of the unpopularity came from the SH from memory, particularly Aus.
None off - Always high, loads of time shot to the face which knocks a player out gets a yellow. No incentive not to tackle high, no attempt to deal with the concussion issue in rugby etc.
Personally I wouldn't like to see it, as rugby is a dynamic contact sport and an accident or nothing incident can spoil a game. I also think we have to try and deal with the concussion issue.
Therefore that doesn't feel realistic or desirable to me. Mitigation is crucial, clarity in decision making is crucial. Some disagreement is inevitable so we're stuck with it IMO
How about KISS?
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Foul play head contact no HIA -- tackler on report. Two reports in game = YC
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Foul play head contact HIA -- automatic YC
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Mitigation stays yellow
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Clumsy no mitigation 20 minute red
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Deliberate straight red
Post match players on report review, with possibility of multi game suspesion if considered appropriate, e.g dangerous technique.
Game keeps flowing, and easy to ref!
@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
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@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
@DurryMexted said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
TM NO
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@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
@DurryMexted said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
There is a system already in place for HIAs. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it?!
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@DurryMexted said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
There is a system already in place for HIAs. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it?!
@pakman it isnt broken?
The ref and TMO determined that a head contact significant enough for a review and subsequent red card had occurred, surely that is enough to warrant an HIA for the recipient of the head contact?
The whole process needs a review (head contact sanctions, HIAs) the way it is, it is a blight on the game and undermining both player safety and rugbys long term future with the inconsistencies.
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T taniwharugby moved this topic from Rugby Matches on
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Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got em.
Here is Gregor Paul's - the RC deserved to be rescinded and should never have been a penalty:
A highly trained game officiator thought the exact opposite.
And another officiating expert agrees with Paul.Just another in a long line of fuckin' embarrassments for WR (last two RWCs decided by RCs) which should lead to meaningful changes.
But probably wont.
Thought we left the amateurish BS behind 30 years ago.And this occured in a match between the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams in the world, in a game that was meant to showcase the sport in the largest sports market in the world.
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A highly trained game officiator thought the exact opposite.
And another officiating expert agrees with Paul.Just another in a long line of fuckin' embarrassments for WR (last two RWCs decided by RCs) which should lead to meaningful changes.
But probably wont.
Thought we left the amateurish BS behind 30 years ago.And this occured in a match between the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams in the world, in a game that was meant to showcase the sport in the largest sports market in the world.
I didn't mind some of his solutions (e.g., all referees for all club competitions are run by a single refereeing boss) even if I didn't think they were that realistic.
He also argued that we shouldn't have neutral refs as the idea is that the best ref in the world should get the premier games. That's stupid. There will be 5 odd games this week, so it's easy enough to split up the premier refs so that they aren't reffing their own country.
