All Blacks 2025
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something ive slowly learnt as a Highlanders fan, year on year i look and think "hey...thats a solid squad, we;ll do alright"...and then we dont. we need to stop look at our players and think theyre good or great...when we're not getting the results we should....if we're not doing well....then theyre not the right players
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This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
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Based on all the information we had at the time, it had to be Robertson. He was riding the crest of a wave.
The bizarre thing was they gave it to him too late. After the departure of his captain (Whitelock) and his 10 (Mo'unga).
Im more disappointed in him since he got the job, than I would be with NZ for giving it to him.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Based on all the information we had at the time, it had to be Robertson. He was riding the crest of a wave.
And riding a big media campaign
The bizarre thing was they gave it to him too late. After the departure of his captain (Whitelock) and his 10 (Mo'unga).
He still has/had the cream of NZ rugby to pick from. And he knew the career plans of those 2 when he took on the job.
Im more disappointed in him since he got the job, than I would be with NZ for giving it to him.
While he hasn't turned out to be the glorious Coach Fantastic his fanbois repeated assured us he would be, it's a bit early to judge him fully. This year will remove that luxury though.
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This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
@mariner4life all fair points, i sometimes feel we spend far too much time talking about whos on then bench (ie the final 20min or the odd time something goes wrong rather than the majority of the game)...and we often pick these versatile guys almost as a wee thanks..."you were never quite #1....but please hang around"...but if im honest id rather be losing these guys in their late 20's early 30's overseas....than the youngster guys that cant see a path into the black jersey
potential to be a future long term starter should trump "dependable" if something goes wrong
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
My contention is he isn’t the best available.
Yes he has been. He's been a dependable test experienced midfielder who has been used to fill the gap when the two top players aren't available.
Don't have an issue with your comments about other players not being picked because they don't have completely all round games, but their strengths are utilised, however with ALB I think you've flipped it the other way.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
My contention is he isn’t the best available.
Yes he has been. He's been a dependable test experienced midfielder who has been used to fill the gap when the two top players aren't available.
Don't have an issue with your comments about other players not being picked because they don't have completely all round games, but their strengths are utilised, however with ALB I think you've flipped it the other way.
81 caps.....
Bonkers stuff.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Based on all the information we had at the time, it had to be Robertson. He was riding the crest of a wave.
And riding a big media campaign
The bizarre thing was they gave it to him too late. After the departure of his captain (Whitelock) and his 10 (Mo'unga).
He still has/had the cream of NZ rugby to pick from. And he knew the career plans of those 2 when he took on the job.
Im more disappointed in him since he got the job, than I would be with NZ for giving it to him.
While he hasn't turned out to be the glorious Coach Fantastic his fanbois repeated assured us he would be, it's a bit early to judge him fully. This year will remove that luxury though.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Based on all the information we had at the time, it had to be Robertson. He was riding the crest of a wave.
And riding a big media campaign
The bizarre thing was they gave it to him too late. After the departure of his captain (Whitelock) and his 10 (Mo'unga).
He still has/had the cream of NZ rugby to pick from. And he knew the career plans of those 2 when he took on the job.
Im more disappointed in him since he got the job, than I would be with NZ for giving it to him.
While he hasn't turned out to be the glorious Coach Fantastic his fanbois repeated assured us he would be, it's a bit early to judge him fully. This year will remove that luxury though.
Fair points, well made.
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@booboo Those games confirm my broader point that there is no room for complacency for the ABs at moment.
They narrowly beat England in all three of those games. All three could have gone the other way. If George Ford had landed a simple drop goal shot England would have won the last one. None of those were anything other than mediocre performances by the All Blacks.
Robertson and co. will have to offer more in 2025 or serious questions will be asked whether they are up to the job.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo Those games confirm my broader point that there is no room for complacency for the ABs at moment.
They narrowly beat England in all three of those games. All three could have gone the other way. If George Ford had landed a simple drop goal shot England would have won the last one. None of those were anything other than mediocre performances by the All Blacks.
Robertson and co. will have to offer more in 2025 or serious questions will be asked whether they are up to the job.
Agree with your broader point.
Re second bolded bit, the same sliding doors would have seen us beating France. But we didn't, and England didn't beat us.
Of course the series v France will be "tough". It's a series against France.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
All three could have gone the other way.
There were other games we could have won last year, but didnt.
Yeah, sure, but we didn't.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
All three could have gone the other way.
There were other games we could have won last year, but didnt.
Yeah, sure, but we didn't.
The irony is strong in this one.
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We need to stop worrying about what players offered in the previous world cup cycle (and earlier than that in some cases) and think about what are they going to offer in 2025 and beyond. This applies to Beauden, Rieko, ALB, Havili etc
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We need to stop worrying about what players offered in the previous world cup cycle (and earlier than that in some cases) and think about what are they going to offer in 2025 and beyond. This applies to Beauden, Rieko, ALB, Havili etc
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
We need to stop worrying about what players offered in the previous world cup cycle (and earlier than that in some cases) and think about what are they going to offer in 2025 and beyond. This applies to Beauden, Rieko, ALB, Havili etc
It’s applied to the 4 of them (and others) for years already.
There is a cadre of blokes leading an incredibly charmed life.
Lads racking up 70/80 cheap caps and in Beaudys case a dozen caps shy of McCaw while scoring one try a year.
It’s laughable.
As I have said before, I used to love some of these players and unlike say a Cullen or Umaga where you might have felt they had more left and you thought what if, I’m sick of the sight of some of these lads now.
And that doesn’t sit well with me.
They were good Allblacks.But they should have gotten the tap on the shoulder years ago.
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This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
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We need to stop worrying about what players offered in the previous world cup cycle (and earlier than that in some cases) and think about what are they going to offer in 2025 and beyond. This applies to Beauden, Rieko, ALB, Havili etc
@KiwiMurph Hard agree. You've hit the nail on the head.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
I just feel his highest highs dont trouble the big boys at international level.
They cope with ALB quite well. They arent fretting over him prepping for a game week.
He is not Conrad Smith and he isnt SBW or Nonu.
And if he is so good, how is Rieko Iaone keeping him out of the team when he himself cant even catch a pass.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
The whole Chiefs backline was looking sharp. DMac looks far more composed when he's not constantly being depended upon to make the play with the ball in his hands
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
The whole Chiefs backline was looking sharp. DMac looks far more composed when he's not constantly being depended upon to make the play with the ball in his hands
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
The whole Chiefs backline was looking sharp. DMac looks far more composed when he's not constantly being depended upon to make the play with the ball in his hands
Following on from this, it's such a shame that they didnt give the DMAC/ Stevenson 10/15 axis a go at some point at international level. They were slicing people open for years.
The whole thing was so muddled. Perofeta was in then out. Narawa was in then out. Beaudy was at 15 off the bench. DMAC was the 10. Then Beaudy was the 10 by the end of the season.
All over the shop.
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Following on from the comment made about Roe by @Mr-Fish in the Chiefs thread, it's pleasing how quickly the half back situation has turned around in NZ. There are probably about five half backs running around that could do the job for the ABs. We just need the same thing to happen at 10.
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Following on from the comment made about Roe by @Mr-Fish in the Chiefs thread, it's pleasing how quickly the half back situation has turned around in NZ. There are probably about five half backs running around that could do the job for the ABs. We just need the same thing to happen at 10.
@Crazy-Horse I like the way the Chiefs are using Jacomb & Dmac, but for some reason, we cant seem to get our 10/15 at AB level to work as well together, is it an ego thing about who is in the driver seat, whereas the Chiefs, Dmac is in total control, Jacomb knows his role is secondary?
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@Crazy-Horse I like the way the Chiefs are using Jacomb & Dmac, but for some reason, we cant seem to get our 10/15 at AB level to work as well together, is it an ego thing about who is in the driver seat, whereas the Chiefs, Dmac is in total control, Jacomb knows his role is secondary?
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse I like the way the Chiefs are using Jacomb & Dmac, but for some reason, we cant seem to get our 10/15 at AB level to work as well together, is it an ego thing about who is in the driver seat, whereas the Chiefs, Dmac is in total control, Jacomb knows his role is secondary?
DMac and Stevenson worked extremely well together too. Seems there's a common denominator...
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@Crazy-Horse I like the way the Chiefs are using Jacomb & Dmac, but for some reason, we cant seem to get our 10/15 at AB level to work as well together, is it an ego thing about who is in the driver seat, whereas the Chiefs, Dmac is in total control, Jacomb knows his role is secondary?
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse I like the way the Chiefs are using Jacomb & Dmac, but for some reason, we cant seem to get our 10/15 at AB level to work as well together, is it an ego thing about who is in the driver seat, whereas the Chiefs, Dmac is in total control, Jacomb knows his role is secondary?
Ive hated the dual pivot stuff that started with Hansen with DMAC and Beaudy (until DMAC did his ACL) and then Beaudy and Mounga going into 2019.
Pure scutter.....Puke.
Give me a Dagg, Ben Smith type at fullback and be done with it.
We started loving the smell of our own farts post the 2011/2015 back to back and tried to reinvent an already well functioning wheel.
We have our two incumbent 10's currently playing 15 at club level, a winger playing 13, our old fullback playing 12.
We have an 8 playing 6, we have a 7 playing 8 and we have had a myriad of 6.5's playing 7.
Fond of throwing a lock in at 6 or a 6 in at lock too.And lads on the wing who look like they are running in quicksand.
They havnt looked like a conventional "starting 15" for a long time.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse I like the way the Chiefs are using Jacomb & Dmac, but for some reason, we cant seem to get our 10/15 at AB level to work as well together, is it an ego thing about who is in the driver seat, whereas the Chiefs, Dmac is in total control, Jacomb knows his role is secondary?
Ive hated the dual pivot stuff that started with Hansen with DMAC and Beaudy (until DMAC did his ACL) and then Beaudy and Mounga going into 2019.
Pure scutter.....Puke.
Give me a Dagg, Ben Smith type at fullback and be done with it.
We started loving the smell of our own farts post the 2011/2015 back to back and tried to reinvent an already well functioning wheel.
We have our two incumbent 10's currently playing 15 at club level, a winger playing 13, our old fullback playing 12.
We have an 8 playing 6, we have a 7 playing 8 and we have had a myriad of 6.5's playing 7.
Fond of throwing a lock in at 6 or a 6 in at lock too.And lads on the wing who look like they are running in quicksand.
They havnt looked like a conventional "starting 15" for a long time.
@Jet BB is more a FB than 10 so in theory, should work, but I think he is given the reins of the duo as main playmaker, and this possibly affects the BB/Dmac effectiveness, not to mention BB is a shadow of his former self so shouldnt even command the starting role at 15 or 10, and form suggests he shouldnt even be on the bench.
But agree otherwise, rather than all these hybrid roles, we need to play specialists in their position.
