All Blacks 2025
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb When was he not in Foster's squads? He was a permanent fixture in 2022 and 2023 at least.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that he made every squad under Foster.
I'm a fan of Kirifi. He's come a long way and bleeds yellow for the Canes. And he's worn the black jersey proudly. But guys like him, and others getting the nod over Paps purely based on performance? I can't agree with that
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Nothing to suggest Robertson hasn't got the people he wanted from the start, but with the shambles that is NZR, who knows?
Yes there is, he wanted Tony Brown. You can find sources online.
If we wanted Tony Brown, they should have chosen Jamie Joseph. The fact that Brown went to SA probably says a lot about how other coaches - outside the Crusaders - feel about working with Razor.
My concern is who they could get to come in who would actually be better than what we have...
It's well known that Razor rejected any other role than Head Coach with his team.
Although I believe we need new assistants and we do need change, I'm not sure that we should be looking to change over the assistants - will a new attack coach with no international experience be any better amongst this team than what we have?
The correct strategic choice for the new CEO of NZRU is to do a complete evaluation of the current team.
My recall is Tony Brown believed accepting would not be loyal to Joseph, don't know what he actually thought of Razor et al.
But then he went to work for the Boks...Tony Brown and Joe Scmidt. have both actively sought to hurt NZ rugby and the All Blacks by working to get high level opponents to the level they can beat us when their were roles on offer in NZ rugby. Can't understand why so many NZ rugby fans have any respect for this. They are not they answer.
Vern Cotter like Graham Henry only coached also rans who where no real threat to the All Blacks, same with Jamie Joseph. These are the guys we should be looking to not a couple of mercenaries who sell out to the highest bidder.
That’s absolute fucking horseshit
That’s on NZRFU not the individuals
The best aspire to play for the best teams, coach the best teams, beat the best teams, and be the best
That is horseshit when it comes the to the All Blacks and NZ rugby. For a century and more our game was built on people who would never turn their back on their country were willing to sacrifice and give their all to the jersey and when it no longer needed them they retreated back to their province and were happy to be stalwarts of their area still supporting the All Blacks and helping the game at the lower levels. Since we started accepting your philosophy we have gone to shit and other teams have improved off what our mercenaries are willing to sell them.
As @MiketheSnow has pointed out, NZ benefits hugely by our coaches working overseas for other teams. There's a reason Foster wanted Schmidt from day 1 and we all saw the improvements when he finally got him.
The real issue is why people like Tony Brown, Joe Schmidt, Enoka (and probably others we don't know about) seem to want nothing to do with coaching the All Blacks. No one is going to expose themselves to the crap and lack of support that NZR has dished up in recent years
Joe made clear previously that he wouldn’t work under Razor. And he’s got a son with health issues, so committing to the RWC would have been difficult. I know he was honoured to be part of AB set up.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
If that's true, then he is a very weird pick as captain for ABXV, and singled out for praise by JJ...
OR, JJ gets his way?!
If these rumours are true, ABs and XV are turning into Game of Thrones!
Imagine the game between them! -
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
So they should. Anyone with any ounce of self respect would back their coach when their backs are against the wall
Well the AB backs could do with more go-forward..
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
If that's true, then he is a very weird pick as captain for ABXV, and singled out for praise by JJ...
OR, JJ gets his way?!
If these rumours are true, ABs and XV are turning into Game of Thrones!
Imagine the game between them!JJ would command the dothraki!
Razor is a poor mans Jamie Lannister!
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Nothing to suggest Robertson hasn't got the people he wanted from the start, but with the shambles that is NZR, who knows?
Yes there is, he wanted Tony Brown. You can find sources online.
If we wanted Tony Brown, they should have chosen Jamie Joseph. The fact that Brown went to SA probably says a lot about how other coaches - outside the Crusaders - feel about working with Razor.
My concern is who they could get to come in who would actually be better than what we have...
It's well known that Razor rejected any other role than Head Coach with his team.
Although I believe we need new assistants and we do need change, I'm not sure that we should be looking to change over the assistants - will a new attack coach with no international experience be any better amongst this team than what we have?
The correct strategic choice for the new CEO of NZRU is to do a complete evaluation of the current team.
My recall is Tony Brown believed accepting would not be loyal to Joseph, don't know what he actually thought of Razor et al.
But then he went to work for the Boks...Tony Brown and Joe Scmidt. have both actively sought to hurt NZ rugby and the All Blacks by working to get high level opponents to the level they can beat us when their were roles on offer in NZ rugby. Can't understand why so many NZ rugby fans have any respect for this. They are not they answer.
Vern Cotter like Graham Henry only coached also rans who where no real threat to the All Blacks, same with Jamie Joseph. These are the guys we should be looking to not a couple of mercenaries who sell out to the highest bidder.
That’s absolute fucking horseshit
That’s on NZRFU not the individuals
The best aspire to play for the best teams, coach the best teams, beat the best teams, and be the best
That is horseshit when it comes the to the All Blacks and NZ rugby. For a century and more our game was built on people who would never turn their back on their country were willing to sacrifice and give their all to the jersey and when it no longer needed them they retreated back to their province and were happy to be stalwarts of their area still supporting the All Blacks and helping the game at the lower levels. Since we started accepting your philosophy we have gone to shit and other teams have improved off what our mercenaries are willing to sell them.
As @MiketheSnow has pointed out, NZ benefits hugely by our coaches working overseas for other teams. There's a reason Foster wanted Schmidt from day 1 and we all saw the improvements when he finally got him.
The real issue is why people like Tony Brown, Joe Schmidt, Enoka (and probably others we don't know about) seem to want nothing to do with coaching the All Blacks. No one is going to expose themselves to the crap and lack of support that NZR has dished up in recent years
Joe made clear previously that he wouldn’t work under Razor. And he’s got a son with health issues, so committing to the RWC would have been difficult. I know he was honoured to be part of AB set up.
He also said he wouldnt work with Razor (at the time) out of loyalty to Foz.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
Razor is a poor mans Jamie Lannister!
Don't tell me Ryan is Tyrion Lannister!
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
If I were David Kirk, I'd set up a charm offensive aimed at the top coaches to undo some of the reputational damage done in eth last 4-5 years.
I would bite your arm off for Schmidt to take over
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta Was part of this being given unrealistic or impossible "work ons"?
No.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
I agree in principle with this. But, the only thing keeping people here is the chance to be an AB.
You can make far more money overseas, with far less pressure, and be treated very very well.
So, if you deem the environment to be toxic, and believe that the road back is blocked, and have a young family... I can easily see why someone would choose to stay out of the environment.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating; Paps is likely on a pretty good contract now, but that won't last without further selection. So if he buggers off overseas - and he would command a very good contract halfway between a WC - we may look back at this differently.
I think that goes for coaches too. The pressure and crap that comes their way does take its toll. Mitchell post 03 RWC talked about it. Henry in that post 07 period and the reapplying phase. Even the old stern tough headmaster felt the effects of it all. Foster in that last two years when it got fever pitched.
Who’d want it? There’s money and behind the scenes gigs that don’t have this sort of almost do or die pressure on it.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
I agree in principle with this. But, the only thing keeping people here is the chance to be an AB.
You can make far more money overseas, with far less pressure, and be treated very very well.
So, if you deem the environment to be toxic, and believe that the road back is blocked, and have a young family... I can easily see why someone would choose to stay out of the environment.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating; Paps is likely on a pretty good contract now, but that won't last without further selection. So if he buggers off overseas - and he would command a very good contract halfway between a WC - we may look back at this differently.
I think that goes for coaches too. The pressure and crap that comes their way does take its toll. Mitchell post 03 RWC talked about it. Henry in that post 07 period and the reapplying phase. Even the old stern tough headmaster felt the effects of it all. Foster in that last two years when it got fever pitched.
Who’d want it? There’s money and behind the scenes gigs that don’t have this sort of almost do or die pressure on it.
On the other hand there is no prestige from coaching a Japanese club team, other than the money and corporate perks. It's the same thing that keeps many talented people unhappily locked into academia.
Robertson has talked about his desire to win World Cups (plural) with different teams, which sounded like something an undergrad student might say about winning a noble prize and becoming a billionaire ... Walk before you can run ...
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
Robertson has talked about his desire to win World Cups (plural) with different teams, which sounded like something an undergrad student might say about winning a noble prize and becoming a billionaire ... Walk before you can run ...
That alone should have rung alarm bells at NZR HQ, but no.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
This thing about Love not being fast enough seems odd to me and seems to be cropping up more and more. He's certainly never looked to lack for pace and I'd be interested in what express fullbacks other top tier nations have (outside SA).
He looked really slow during this year's NPC. This did not strike me particularly during the 2025 SR.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
How many All Blacks would make a World XV at the moment?
Based on this seasons performances I'd say only players that would make a shortlist would be:
Taylor
RoigardNot sure they would be the outright best in their position though.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
I get you might be pissed off but the sense of entitlement for a fringe All Black player to do that is a tad pathetic. Can you imagine anyone in any other serious job behaving like that?
Well, I've walked away from business clients as being associated with them would be bad for my business/career prospects.
Yes but I’m not sure the two are comparable. One is a smart business decision, the other is behaving like a brat. Dalton is a good player but he doesn’t have the personal accolades to be demanding anything from anyone
You asked the question, got an answer, then disregarded the answer
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I love this revisionism going on over the Ian Foster years. Those were bad years way worse than what is happening now. The All Blacks may struggle to put teams away now but at least they are getting themselves in a position to win and blowing it .
Alot of the Foster era losses we never fired a shot, were not in the game at any stage and looked way off the pace. Classic example being the mauling we took at Twickenham from the Boks vs the one at Wellington. At halftime at the caketin we were leading and the pundits were optimistic. At Twickenham we were humbled from start to finish.
