All Blacks vs Scotland
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have to admit I find it a bit disrespectful to Scotland to make that many changes.
I don't think they'll mind if they beat us.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have to admit I find it a bit disrespectful to Scotland to make that many changes.
I don't think they'll mind if they beat us.
Actually, I'll retract this. They won't mind beating us, but the layer of disrespect will make the victory all the sweeter to those curmudgeonly bodaches..
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have to admit I find it a bit disrespectful to Scotland to make that many changes. Japan was for trialling players, surely these professionals can handle 3 games in a row at the end of the season. Midfield has been our biggest weakness since 15, let JB and RI play as many games together as possible. I really cannot see any point in playing DH at 12.
Ok but if we beat them is it still dusruspict? Is that you Ngani?
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have to admit I find it a bit disrespectful to Scotland to make that many changes. Japan was for trialling players, surely these professionals can handle 3 games in a row at the end of the season. Midfield has been our biggest weakness since 15, let JB and RI play as many games together as possible. I really cannot see any point in playing DH at 12.
Ok but if we beat them is it still disrespect? Is that you Ngani?
I would say yes, if you don't put out your strongest side vs the 8th ranked team in the world suggests a little bit of arrogance and disrespect.
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have to admit I find it a bit disrespectful to Scotland to make that many changes. Japan was for trialling players, surely these professionals can handle 3 games in a row at the end of the season. Midfield has been our biggest weakness since 15, let JB and RI play as many games together as possible. I really cannot see any point in playing DH at 12.
Ok but if we beat them is it still disrespect? Is that you Ngani?
I would say yes, if you don't put out your strongest side vs the 8th ranked team in the world suggests a little bit of arrogance and disrespect.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have to admit I find it a bit disrespectful to Scotland to make that many changes. Japan was for trialling players, surely these professionals can handle 3 games in a row at the end of the season. Midfield has been our biggest weakness since 15, let JB and RI play as many games together as possible. I really cannot see any point in playing DH at 12.
Ok but if we beat them is it still disrespect? Is that you Ngani?
I would say yes, if you don't put out your strongest side vs the 8th ranked team in the world suggests a little bit of arrogance and disrespect.
Especially if you beat them.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have to admit I find it a bit disrespectful to Scotland to make that many changes. Japan was for trialling players, surely these professionals can handle 3 games in a row at the end of the season. Midfield has been our biggest weakness since 15, let JB and RI play as many games together as possible. I really cannot see any point in playing DH at 12.
Ok but if we beat them is it still disrespect? Is that you Ngani?
I would say yes, if you don't put out your strongest side vs the 8th ranked team in the world suggests a little bit of arrogance and disrespect.
Especially if you beat them.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Bones In Foster we trust.
Hah. Yeah Foster wrin...Rin.... making lots of selection changes against a second tier side is quite the departure from how other coaches have faced up to the eoyt.
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Bones In Foster we trust.
Hah. Yeah Foster wrin...Rin.... making lots of selection changes against a second tier side is quite the departure from how other coaches have faced up to the eoyt.
I guess that is the difference, I believe Scotland are Tier 1 at the moment and we had plenty of time to tinker vs Japan.
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Bones In Foster we trust.
Hah. Yeah Foster wrin...Rin.... making lots of selection changes against a second tier side is quite the departure from how other coaches have faced up to the eoyt.
I guess that is the difference, I believe Scotland are Tier 1 at the moment and we had plenty of time to tinker vs Japan.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Bones In Foster we trust.
Hah. Yeah Foster wrin...Rin.... making lots of selection changes against a second tier side is quite the departure from how other coaches have faced up to the eoyt.
I guess that is the difference, I believe Scotland are Tier 1 at the moment and we had plenty of time to tinker vs Japan.
I don't think they're any better than the last few times we've faced them.
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Are there really that many changes?
Up until a few tests ago Havili was our best 12 and Jordie our best 15.
There's no clear owner of the 6 jersey so it could well be argued it's the strongest loose forward trio.
The centre has played 58 tests.
Our best hooker is starting.
Hardly screams disrespect.
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Are there really that many changes?
Up until a few tests ago Havili was our best 12 and Jordie our best 15.
There's no clear owner of the 6 jersey so it could well be argued it's the strongest loose forward trio.
The centre has played 58 tests.
Our best hooker is starting.
Hardly screams disrespect.
@KiwiMurph just on the midfield I think Foster wants two very good combinations to call on should there be injury or illness (much like Hansen and Henry wanted) and Jordie/Ioane and Havili/ALB. Not about disrespect or cheapening the jersey.
Starting front row. Two first choice locks. Best available 7 and 8. A 6 that has started or been a bench option.
An 90 test 1st 5. Our best fullback. First choice left wing and a debutant on the right.
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The 10, 12, 13, combo is so bad… both Havili and ALB are more playmakers than guys who can carry hard. And they'll be getting average ball cause BB will be shuffling it across.
BB plays so much better with a hard runner at 12.. and his brother happens to be our best 12.. makes way too much sense to start them together.
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Are there really that many changes?
Up until a few tests ago Havili was our best 12 and Jordie our best 15.
There's no clear owner of the 6 jersey so it could well be argued it's the strongest loose forward trio.
The centre has played 58 tests.
Our best hooker is starting.
Hardly screams disrespect.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Are there really that many changes?
Up until a few tests ago Havili was our best 12 and Jordie our best 15.
There's no clear owner of the 6 jersey so it could well be argued it's the strongest loose forward trio.
The centre has played 58 tests.
Our best hooker is starting.
Hardly screams disrespect.
Plus we're sending them out trained by NZ's best men's rugby coach. :fishing_pole:
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The 10, 12, 13, combo is so bad… both Havili and ALB are more playmakers than guys who can carry hard. And they'll be getting average ball cause BB will be shuffling it across.
BB plays so much better with a hard runner at 12.. and his brother happens to be our best 12.. makes way too much sense to start them together.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
The 10, 12, 13, combo is so bad… both Havili and ALB are more playmakers than guys who can carry hard. And they'll be getting average ball cause BB will be shuffling it across.
BB plays so much better with a hard runner at 12.. and his brother happens to be our best 12.. makes way too much sense to start them together.
They should be used to that with RM shuffling it across? They might have a bit more time with BB as he won’t try a touch style side step backwards first.
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I think some of comments on this selection are infected by anti Fozzie hate rather than rational thinking on team selection (aside from my complaining about Frizell, that is clearly rational). We often play a closer to B team against Scotland. In 2014 we threw out Slade on the wing, Thrush and Bird as our locks, and some dude call McCaw at 6.
I'm not sure we've ever put out an A team against them on an EOYT.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
The 10, 12, 13, combo is so bad… both Havili and ALB are more playmakers than guys who can carry hard. And they'll be getting average ball cause BB will be shuffling it across.
BB plays so much better with a hard runner at 12.. and his brother happens to be our best 12.. makes way too much sense to start them together.
They should be used to that with RM shuffling it across? They might have a bit more time with BB as he won’t try a touch style side step backwards first.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
The 10, 12, 13, combo is so bad… both Havili and ALB are more playmakers than guys who can carry hard. And they'll be getting average ball cause BB will be shuffling it across.
BB plays so much better with a hard runner at 12.. and his brother happens to be our best 12.. makes way too much sense to start them together.
They should be used to that with RM shuffling it across? They might have a bit more time with BB as he won’t try a touch style side step backwards first.
He likes to just stop instead
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The 10, 12, 13, combo is so bad… both Havili and ALB are more playmakers than guys who can carry hard. And they'll be getting average ball cause BB will be shuffling it across.
BB plays so much better with a hard runner at 12.. and his brother happens to be our best 12.. makes way too much sense to start them together.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
The 10, 12, 13, combo is so bad… both Havili and ALB are more playmakers than guys who can carry hard. And they'll be getting average ball cause BB will be shuffling it across.
BB plays so much better with a hard runner at 12.. and his brother happens to be our best 12.. makes way too much sense to start them together.
Nah not at all. Makes more sense to try the Barrett combo against a tiring defence. Hopefully they do it in second half. I presume RM is seen as our 10 and BB our 15 so that may be how they combine in future.
Given the short rest before England match I suspect they have prioritised the selection of the best xv for that and have planned deliberate rest for those starting last week so not 3 starts in a row.
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I think some of comments on this selection are infected by anti Fozzie hate rather than rational thinking on team selection (aside from my complaining about Frizell, that is clearly rational). We often play a closer to B team against Scotland. In 2014 we threw out Slade on the wing, Thrush and Bird as our locks, and some dude call McCaw at 6.
I'm not sure we've ever put out an A team against them on an EOYT.
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I think some of comments on this selection are infected by anti Fozzie hate rather than rational thinking on team selection (aside from my complaining about Frizell, that is clearly rational). We often play a closer to B team against Scotland. In 2014 we threw out Slade on the wing, Thrush and Bird as our locks, and some dude call McCaw at 6.
I'm not sure we've ever put out an A team against them on an EOYT.
In 2014 we could have put Owen Franks on the wing and still won. It isn't 2014 anymore.
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@broughie said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Steve Now and all fairness, and I don't think Havilli is good at 12, when the pack dominates he operated a lot better. But Jordy will be back to 12 for England unless Foster is a twit.
Would there be anyone here who prefers DH at 12 over JB, especially against England? Not me.
We aren't playing England though. Not this game.
I don't get this obsession with expecting the best 23 every game. We have to decide own and develop a full squad for next year. Sometimes there will be a need to shuffle a little. Sometimes it pays off too.
I think where the problem is with chopping and changing is that because Fozzie's record is so poor, we're effectively a year behind in our development of a full squad. With 10 or so tests before the QF, is that enough time between now and then to allow the squad with all the constant changes to gel and seamlessly switch in and out every test?
Are you trying to support my point?
With what happened earlier this year we lost some chances to mix things up for the whole squad. Are you saying we should pick a 23 and try and ride it as much as possible to the World Cup? That would be dumb even for Foster.So JB has had two tests at 12. Many are saying he hasn't played enough against decent opposition to be considered the answer. But then he would have played only 2 of the last 4 tests at 12. So do we play him to prove himself or switch shit up every 5 minutes?
Just because he doesn't start at 12 doesn't mean he doesn't play 12.
Jordie shifted to 12 in Melbourne.
Played 12 at Eden Park and Cardiff
Will shift to 12 in this game (I imagine).
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@broughie said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Steve Now and all fairness, and I don't think Havilli is good at 12, when the pack dominates he operated a lot better. But Jordy will be back to 12 for England unless Foster is a twit.
Would there be anyone here who prefers DH at 12 over JB, especially against England? Not me.
We aren't playing England though. Not this game.
I don't get this obsession with expecting the best 23 every game. We have to decide own and develop a full squad for next year. Sometimes there will be a need to shuffle a little. Sometimes it pays off too.
I think where the problem is with chopping and changing is that because Fozzie's record is so poor, we're effectively a year behind in our development of a full squad. With 10 or so tests before the QF, is that enough time between now and then to allow the squad with all the constant changes to gel and seamlessly switch in and out every test?
Are you trying to support my point?
With what happened earlier this year we lost some chances to mix things up for the whole squad. Are you saying we should pick a 23 and try and ride it as much as possible to the World Cup? That would be dumb even for Foster.So JB has had two tests at 12. Many are saying he hasn't played enough against decent opposition to be considered the answer. But then he would have played only 2 of the last 4 tests at 12. So do we play him to prove himself or switch shit up every 5 minutes?
Just because he doesn't start at 12 doesn't mean he doesn't play 12.
Jordie shifted to 12 in Melbourne.
Played 12 at Eden Park and Cardiff
Will shift to 12 in this game (I imagine).
So if he walk Jamaican, talk Jamaican, then why is he Japanese?
We don't have 4 years to develop him at 12 anymore. We don't have 4 years to develop his partnership with RI or ALB. And the way they're chopping and changing, he most likely has 5 non-consecutive tests with god knows who as his partner.
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I think some of comments on this selection are infected by anti Fozzie hate rather than rational thinking on team selection (aside from my complaining about Frizell, that is clearly rational). We often play a closer to B team against Scotland. In 2014 we threw out Slade on the wing, Thrush and Bird as our locks, and some dude call McCaw at 6.
I'm not sure we've ever put out an A team against them on an EOYT.
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I'm not sure we've ever put out an A team against them on an EOYT.
I'm pretty sure we did in 2017 & we scraped through by 4 points.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I'm not sure we've ever put out an A team against them on an EOYT.
I'm pretty sure we did in 2017 & we scraped through by 4 points.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I'm not sure we've ever put out an A team against them on an EOYT.
I'm pretty sure we did in 2017 & we scraped through by 4 points.
A game that we got a couple of YCs and started Kane Hames and Fifita. And Fifita played about half the game at lock. Was Ioane, Naholo and DMac our first choice back 3?
