All Blacks 2024
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A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
He promised much but ultimately failed to deliver because of injury
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@Kiwiwomble Talking about Razor's era - we haven't had any locks playing 6 have we?
The loosies have shuffled a bit, but mostly it's been Dalton and Cane who are specialist 7s playing 7, Ardie's been a constant at 8. Sititi's been a surprise - and Blackadder and Jacobson have been a bit like Vito was in 2015.
Actually, Ben Franks played both sides during the 2015 RWC, Kaino, Read and Vito all appear to have spent some time at lock. Cane played at 6 - these ones off the bench. SBW played at 12 and 13. Bender at 14 and 15. Beauden at 10 and 15. Colin Slade started a game at fullback.
Vito appears to have played half an hour at centre!
Haven't looked at all of the games.
Though, generally, I'd agree that it seems we've moved towatds placing greater value on utility.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@Kiwiwomble Talking about Razor's era - we haven't had any locks playing 6 have we?
The loosies have shuffled a bit, but mostly it's been Dalton and Cane who are specialist 7s playing 7, Ardie's been a constant at 8. Sititi's been a surprise - and Blackadder and Jacobson have been a bit like Vito was in 2015.
Actually, Ben Franks played both sides during the 2015 RWC, Kaino, Read and Vito all appear to have spent some time at lock. Cane played at 6 - these ones off the bench. SBW played at 12 and 13. Bender at 14 and 15. Beauden at 10 and 15. Colin Slade started a game at fullback.
Vito appears to have played half an hour at centre!
Haven't looked at all of the games.
Though, generally, I'd agree that it seems we've moved towatds placing greater value on utility.
“I am really big on players playing two positions; their preferred position and another position. Things change really quickly, and the utility factor is critical.”
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A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/528985/who-is-the-most-ill-disciplined-all-black
"... crunches the numbers"... 'LOL'.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
Absolutely. I can’t even remember Goodhue at all apart from a questionable mullet.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
Absolutely. I can’t even remember Goodhue at all apart from a questionable mullet.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
Absolutely. I can’t even remember Goodhue at all apart from a questionable mullet.
his defensive performance vs SA in WLG was incredible. Test level. But then he got injured, slow and form fell off a cliff
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
Absolutely. I can’t even remember Goodhue at all apart from a questionable mullet.
his defensive performance vs SA in WLG was incredible. Test level. But then he got injured, slow and form fell off a cliff
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
Absolutely. I can’t even remember Goodhue at all apart from a questionable mullet.
his defensive performance vs SA in WLG was incredible. Test level. But then he got injured, slow and form fell off a cliff
Yeah the not remembering bit is more a comment on me than anything he ever did. Coincided with me not caring a hell of a lot about rugby after so many of my favourites retired.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
When the ABs were at their peak in 2015 we had our best players playing in their specialist positions. ie. Conrad Smith was seen as purely a centre, Nonu as a 12, Kaino as a 6. McCaw as a 7, Read as an 8, Carter as a 10 etc etc. We achieved consistently excellent results because selection wasn't based on the bullshit that we see today.
I reckon you'd find there was a bit more shifting around than you recall.
Just in the 2015 RWC Final, SBW replaced Conrad at halftime and played at centre - a position he only ever once started in for the ABs.
Beaudy came on for NMS - I pretty sure at fullback and pushed Ben Smith to the right wing.
Beaudy was also our first five reserve and started there in at least one of the pool matches.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
When the ABs were at their peak in 2015 we had our best players playing in their specialist positions. ie. Conrad Smith was seen as purely a centre, Nonu as a 12, Kaino as a 6. McCaw as a 7, Read as an 8, Carter as a 10 etc etc. We achieved consistently excellent results because selection wasn't based on the bullshit that we see today.
I reckon you'd find there was a bit more shifting around than you recall.
Just in the 2015 RWC Final, SBW replaced Conrad at halftime and played at centre - a position he only ever once started in for the ABs.
Beaudy came on for NMS - I pretty sure at fullback and pushed Ben Smith to the right wing.
Beaudy was also our first five reserve and started there in at least one of the pool matches.
No. SBW played 12 and Nonu moved out one. Was previewed against Samoa, something at the time I thought was random.
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Love the selection of Fihaki to be brought into the squad. Thought it was really well deserved.
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Barrett and Vaai are specialist locks. Using them at 6 would be not playing specialists.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Barrett and Vaai are specialist locks. Using them at 6 would be not playing specialists.
In the international game it’s quite common for LH lock (slim one) to play blindside. Almost a new hybrid role.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
When the ABs were at their peak in 2015 we had our best players playing in their specialist positions. ie. Conrad Smith was seen as purely a centre, Nonu as a 12, Kaino as a 6. McCaw as a 7, Read as an 8, Carter as a 10 etc etc. We achieved consistently excellent results because selection wasn't based on the bullshit that we see today.
I reckon you'd find there was a bit more shifting around than you recall.
Just in the 2015 RWC Final, SBW replaced Conrad at halftime and played at centre - a position he only ever once started in for the ABs.
Beaudy came on for NMS - I pretty sure at fullback and pushed Ben Smith to the right wing.
Beaudy was also our first five reserve and started there in at least one of the pool matches.
No. SBW played 12 and Nonu moved out one. Was previewed against Samoa, something at the time I thought was random.
@pakman Your memory is better than mine.
Doesn't change the gist of what I was saying about utility in 2015.
They also pulled Conrad for SBW in the QF vs France. Do you recall who played 2nd five in that game. It would be odd if they played SBW at centre.
n.b. on reflection, I also suspect Vito played wing rather than centre, but I definitely can't remember that game.
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@pakman Your memory is better than mine.
Doesn't change the gist of what I was saying about utility in 2015.
They also pulled Conrad for SBW in the QF vs France. Do you recall who played 2nd five in that game. It would be odd if they played SBW at centre.
n.b. on reflection, I also suspect Vito played wing rather than centre, but I definitely can't remember that game.
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Can’t believe people are saying Razor has a Crusaders bias
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/hard-to-see-what-the-all-blacks-are-building-unlike-south-africa/
I had to do a double take on the caption of that article. We weren't "ruthless", and I can't recall many times an AB side has ever been called "rudderless". Dark times
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Can’t believe people are saying Razor has a Crusaders bias
@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks 2024:
Can’t believe people are saying Razor has a Crusaders bias
https://giphy.com/gifs/lol-laughing-charlie-murphy-l3E6uhDAN3W7vylji
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canerbry said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@junior Precisely. Shittest All Blacks cattle in living memory this year.
This is probably an important point, though not the point you are trying to make, when it comes to Razor. This is the first time he's coached a team that isn't absolutely fucking stacked compared to opposition teams in a long time, if ever. In fact he actually has to get this team beating other teams that, on paper, are stronger than his team. That's all new to him.
That’s not true.
When he first started out in super rugby, the crusaders weren’t stacked, they were full of players yet to make their mark. Mounga being a prime example and they had lost players such as McCaw,Carter.
Not this fucking argument again. Those with international experience (test level) at that time bolded. Doesn't include MABs.
They could run out an AB forward pack, with their AB replacements on the bench in multiple positions, an AB midfield and FB, and at least 10 from the U20s (Strange, Drummy, Hall, Bateman, McKenzie, Mo'unga, Goodhue, Havili, Wainui, Bridge). It's a testament to their development that they got the right pieces at the right time.
Forwards: Michael Alaalatoa, Wyatt Crockett, Oliver Jager, Joe Moody, Tim Perry, Owen Franks, Ben Funnell, Andrew Makalio, Codie Taylor, Scott Barrett, Luke Romano, Quinten Strange, Sam Whitelock, Heiden Bedwell-Curtis, Jed Brown, Mitchell Dunshea, Kieran Read, Pete Samu, Jordan Taufua, Matt Todd.
Backs: Mitchell Drummond, Leon Fukofuka, Bryn Hall, Tim Bateman, Marty McKenzie, Richie Mo'unga, Ryan Crotty, Jack Goodhue, David Havili, Seta Tamanivalu, Sean Wainui, George Bridge, Israel Dagg, Sione Fifita, Mitchell Hunt, Digby Ioane, Jone Macilai, Manasa Mataele.
All of this is not to say that Razor didn't do well, but he did not have a team of fucking no names. He had the AB captain and most of the starting forward pack plus much of the emerging back talent stolen from around the country.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canerbry said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@junior Precisely. Shittest All Blacks cattle in living memory this year.
This is probably an important point, though not the point you are trying to make, when it comes to Razor. This is the first time he's coached a team that isn't absolutely fucking stacked compared to opposition teams in a long time, if ever. In fact he actually has to get this team beating other teams that, on paper, are stronger than his team. That's all new to him.
That’s not true.
When he first started out in super rugby, the crusaders weren’t stacked, they were full of players yet to make their mark. Mounga being a prime example and they had lost players such as McCaw,Carter.
Not this fucking argument again. Those with international experience (test level) at that time bolded. Doesn't include MABs.
They could run out an AB forward pack, with their AB replacements on the bench in multiple positions, an AB midfield and FB, and at least 10 from the U20s (Strange, Drummy, Hall, Bateman, McKenzie, Mo'unga, Goodhue, Havili, Wainui, Bridge). It's a testament to their development that they got the right pieces at the right time.
Forwards: Michael Alaalatoa, Wyatt Crockett, Oliver Jager, Joe Moody, Tim Perry, Owen Franks, Ben Funnell, Andrew Makalio, Codie Taylor, Scott Barrett, Luke Romano, Quinten Strange, Sam Whitelock, Heiden Bedwell-Curtis, Jed Brown, Mitchell Dunshea, Kieran Read, Pete Samu, Jordan Taufua, Matt Todd.
Backs: Mitchell Drummond, Leon Fukofuka, Bryn Hall, Tim Bateman, Marty McKenzie, Richie Mo'unga, Ryan Crotty, Jack Goodhue, David Havili, Seta Tamanivalu, Sean Wainui, George Bridge, Israel Dagg, Sione Fifita, Mitchell Hunt, Digby Ioane, Jone Macilai, Manasa Mataele.
All of this is not to say that Razor didn't do well, but he did not have a team of fucking no names. He had the AB captain and most of the starting forward pack plus much of the emerging back talent stolen from around the country.
Didnt say he had a team of no names as mentioned in a later post.
It was a counter argument to someone saying that Razor has always had teams stacked and far better than other sides he faced.
The Crusaders had not won super rugby for 10 years and had lost a lot of players.
They also had to win the final in Joburg
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@Kiwiwomble If we're only going to pick specialists according to your definition, we won't have any players to choose from.
Scooter and Vaa'i are obviously locks.
Colin Meads played quite a few less tests than Scooter - but started twice as many as a loose forward!
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
He promised much but ultimately failed to deliver because of injury
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
He promised much but ultimately failed to deliver because of injury
Always looked like was running in treacle.
