All Blacks 2025
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
From what I've seen the Saffas are basically using heavy rotation of their starting line up to keep players fresh. Their players often get rotated at the 35 to 50 mark compared to ours at 60 - 70. The use of our bench was often poor last year. The mindset is completely different.
This nullifies completly the whole "run them off their feet" gameplan which we still persist with and we haven't got a plan B in the back pocket to counter this. It's tactically brilliant (albiet with calculated risk should 2 backs get injured) that we haven't got an answer for.
In short the AB's need to find a way to make space on the field that doesn't rely on players being out of position due to fatigue because when you can basically sub on a whole new forward pack no-one is fatigued.
This isn't the thread for it but I really dislike the rules around the use of the bench in modern footy, allowing teams to substitute an almost entirely new forward packs on for the second 40. It's completely removed one of the most challenging parts of the game - executing your skills in the final 10 minutes when the lungs are burning and the legs feel like jelly to get the win.
Me too, but you can't change the rules you can only change how you play.
You can pick like for like and play them at their own game.
You can try something as simple as targeting players you know won't be subbed. Run our guys at their backs all day, then sub our guys who are running at their backs, and run at them some more.What we did, is not sub until about 70 minutes and pick a specialist winger on the bench. Fuck. Off.
@reprobate and thats the problem, back at Henry & Co's time, plus early Hansen they very much played the old Horses for courses for players and even game plans (e.g lets run at Pocock all day to reduce his effectiveness at the breakdown)
Whereas c 2017 ish to present, we have a game plan (that has evolved fuck all) and be damned if the players fit it, or the opposition can too easily deal with it, we'll keep on going, it'll work, soon, surely...probably?
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
And there is definitely one other on the coaches radar, but don’t want to jinx it by calling it out early
Oh come on. Kemara is injured and JOC is ineligible isn't he? So that leaves Rihanna.
A few weeks ago an Aussie commentator mentioned Harkin was in the mix for AB selection. That would be interesting.
Wouldn't take any notice of an Aussie commentator. Someone has a good half of rugby, or even starts in super they seem be in mix for test rugby.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
And there is definitely one other on the coaches radar, but don’t want to jinx it by calling it out early
Oh come on. Kemara is injured and JOC is ineligible isn't he? So that leaves Rihanna.
A few weeks ago an Aussie commentator mentioned Harkin was in the mix for AB selection. That would be interesting.
Wouldn't take any notice of an Aussie commentator. Someone has a good half of rugby, or even starts in super they seem be in mix for test rugby.
Yes I'm well aware of that.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
All kinda 7.5s ...
…..and all considerably better than the 7.5s on offer today
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
All kinda 7.5s ...
…..and all considerably better than the 7.5s on offer today
You think they're all clearly better than Ardie Savea?
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
All kinda 7.5s ...
…..and all considerably better than the 7.5s on offer today
You think they're all clearly better than Ardie Savea?
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
All kinda 7.5s ...
…..and all considerably better than the 7.5s on offer today
You think they're all clearly better than Ardie Savea?
Ardie is undefinable. I haven't counted him.
They are all better than Papalii, Jacobsen and Blackadder though.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
All kinda 7.5s ...
…..and all considerably better than the 7.5s on offer today
You think they're all clearly better than Ardie Savea?
Ardie is undefinable. I haven't counted him.
They are all better than Papalii, Jacobsen and Blackadder though.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
All kinda 7.5s ...
…..and all considerably better than the 7.5s on offer today
You think they're all clearly better than Ardie Savea?
Ardie is undefinable. I haven't counted him.
They are all better than Papalii, Jacobsen and Blackadder though.
Look I think it's fair to say they'd all walk back into the current squad.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
From what I've seen the Saffas are basically using heavy rotation of their starting line up to keep players fresh. Their players often get rotated at the 35 to 50 mark compared to ours at 60 - 70. The use of our bench was often poor last year. The mindset is completely different.
This nullifies completly the whole "run them off their feet" gameplan which we still persist with and we haven't got a plan B in the back pocket to counter this. It's tactically brilliant (albiet with calculated risk should 2 backs get injured) that we haven't got an answer for.
In short the AB's need to find a way to make space on the field that doesn't rely on players being out of position due to fatigue because when you can basically sub on a whole new forward pack no-one is fatigued.
This isn't the thread for it but I really dislike the rules around the use of the bench in modern footy, allowing teams to substitute an almost entirely new forward pack on for the second 40. It's largely removed one of the most challenging parts of the game - executing your skills in the final 10 minutes when the lungs are burning and the legs feel like jelly to get the win.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
From what I've seen the Saffas are basically using heavy rotation of their starting line up to keep players fresh. Their players often get rotated at the 35 to 50 mark compared to ours at 60 - 70. The use of our bench was often poor last year. The mindset is completely different.
This nullifies completly the whole "run them off their feet" gameplan which we still persist with and we haven't got a plan B in the back pocket to counter this. It's tactically brilliant (albiet with calculated risk should 2 backs get injured) that we haven't got an answer for.
In short the AB's need to find a way to make space on the field that doesn't rely on players being out of position due to fatigue because when you can basically sub on a whole new forward pack no-one is fatigued.
This isn't the thread for it but I really dislike the rules around the use of the bench in modern footy, allowing teams to substitute an almost entirely new forward pack on for the second 40. It's largely removed one of the most challenging parts of the game - executing your skills in the final 10 minutes when the lungs are burning and the legs feel like jelly to get the win.
I agree with the sentiment and I think we can all tell that the rules weren't designed with the "swap the entire forward pack" in mind, we are witnessing an unintended consquence of rules arond player welfare and safety being exploited.
However by the same token I do admire the tactical nous and am miffed that the AB's weren't smart enough to comeup with this tactic - especially when we employ a run-them-off-their-feet style of game plan which this would suit ideally.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
From what I've seen the Saffas are basically using heavy rotation of their starting line up to keep players fresh. Their players often get rotated at the 35 to 50 mark compared to ours at 60 - 70. The use of our bench was often poor last year. The mindset is completely different.
This nullifies completly the whole "run them off their feet" gameplan which we still persist with and we haven't got a plan B in the back pocket to counter this. It's tactically brilliant (albiet with calculated risk should 2 backs get injured) that we haven't got an answer for.
In short the AB's need to find a way to make space on the field that doesn't rely on players being out of position due to fatigue because when you can basically sub on a whole new forward pack no-one is fatigued.
This isn't the thread for it but I really dislike the rules around the use of the bench in modern footy, allowing teams to substitute an almost entirely new forward pack on for the second 40. It's largely removed one of the most challenging parts of the game - executing your skills in the final 10 minutes when the lungs are burning and the legs feel like jelly to get the win.
I agree with the sentiment and I think we can all tell that the rules weren't designed with the "swap the entire forward pack" in mind, we are witnessing an unintended consquence of rules arond player welfare and safety being exploited.
However by the same token I do admire the tactical nous and am miffed that the AB's weren't smart enough to comeup with this tactic - especially when we employ a run-them-off-their-feet style of game plan which this would suit ideally.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
From what I've seen the Saffas are basically using heavy rotation of their starting line up to keep players fresh. Their players often get rotated at the 35 to 50 mark compared to ours at 60 - 70. The use of our bench was often poor last year. The mindset is completely different.
This nullifies completly the whole "run them off their feet" gameplan which we still persist with and we haven't got a plan B in the back pocket to counter this. It's tactically brilliant (albiet with calculated risk should 2 backs get injured) that we haven't got an answer for.
In short the AB's need to find a way to make space on the field that doesn't rely on players being out of position due to fatigue because when you can basically sub on a whole new forward pack no-one is fatigued.
This isn't the thread for it but I really dislike the rules around the use of the bench in modern footy, allowing teams to substitute an almost entirely new forward pack on for the second 40. It's largely removed one of the most challenging parts of the game - executing your skills in the final 10 minutes when the lungs are burning and the legs feel like jelly to get the win.
I agree with the sentiment and I think we can all tell that the rules weren't designed with the "swap the entire forward pack" in mind, we are witnessing an unintended consquence of rules arond player welfare and safety being exploited.
However by the same token I do admire the tactical nous and am miffed that the AB's weren't smart enough to comeup with this tactic - especially when we employ a run-them-off-their-feet style of game plan which this would suit ideally.
TBH, I think if we were using this method successfully the NH would already have been making moves to adjust the laws.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
From what I've seen the Saffas are basically using heavy rotation of their starting line up to keep players fresh. Their players often get rotated at the 35 to 50 mark compared to ours at 60 - 70. The use of our bench was often poor last year. The mindset is completely different.
This nullifies completly the whole "run them off their feet" gameplan which we still persist with and we haven't got a plan B in the back pocket to counter this. It's tactically brilliant (albiet with calculated risk should 2 backs get injured) that we haven't got an answer for.
In short the AB's need to find a way to make space on the field that doesn't rely on players being out of position due to fatigue because when you can basically sub on a whole new forward pack no-one is fatigued.
This isn't the thread for it but I really dislike the rules around the use of the bench in modern footy, allowing teams to substitute an almost entirely new forward pack on for the second 40. It's largely removed one of the most challenging parts of the game - executing your skills in the final 10 minutes when the lungs are burning and the legs feel like jelly to get the win.
I agree with the sentiment and I think we can all tell that the rules weren't designed with the "swap the entire forward pack" in mind, we are witnessing an unintended consquence of rules arond player welfare and safety being exploited.
However by the same token I do admire the tactical nous and am miffed that the AB's weren't smart enough to comeup with this tactic - especially when we employ a run-them-off-their-feet style of game plan which this would suit ideally.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
From what I've seen the Saffas are basically using heavy rotation of their starting line up to keep players fresh. Their players often get rotated at the 35 to 50 mark compared to ours at 60 - 70. The use of our bench was often poor last year. The mindset is completely different.
This nullifies completly the whole "run them off their feet" gameplan which we still persist with and we haven't got a plan B in the back pocket to counter this. It's tactically brilliant (albiet with calculated risk should 2 backs get injured) that we haven't got an answer for.
In short the AB's need to find a way to make space on the field that doesn't rely on players being out of position due to fatigue because when you can basically sub on a whole new forward pack no-one is fatigued.
This isn't the thread for it but I really dislike the rules around the use of the bench in modern footy, allowing teams to substitute an almost entirely new forward pack on for the second 40. It's largely removed one of the most challenging parts of the game - executing your skills in the final 10 minutes when the lungs are burning and the legs feel like jelly to get the win.
I agree with the sentiment and I think we can all tell that the rules weren't designed with the "swap the entire forward pack" in mind, we are witnessing an unintended consquence of rules arond player welfare and safety being exploited.
Every time a prop plays more than 65 minutes nowadays everyone is all 'woah big shift' like it's some amazing achievement. The Saffas would probably say that if they hit 55 minutes. They've made the game more dangerous by making it played by bigger stronger guys with less need for aerobic fitness.
Maybe someone could take the old Otago NPC approach to them - just keep the ball alive at all costs cause everyone else's forwards are bigger and stronger. It was good to watch, but far too high risk for the ABs. -
The addition of more substitutions hasn’t necessarily made the game any better in my view.
But why we haven’t utilised a 6/2 bench - I’m more for the specialist forwards and getting all the benefits of that. Some versatility in the backs I’m less concerned with - they are smarter and better anyway.
It’s not about copying anyone but to play a more confrontational style for longer periods in the 80 minutes.
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Thoughts on Fusitua in the squad. Heard he might be a Smokey.
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Thoughts on Fusitua in the squad. Heard he might be a Smokey.
@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2025:
Thoughts on Fusitua in the squad. Heard he might be a Smokey.
Think there's a better option in Ollie Norris, but the third-choice loosehead isn't exactly going to be picking up much game time so not too bothered if Fusitu'a does get the call up. Would rather him than an older guy like George Bower when you've got two props in Tamaiti Williams and Ethan de Groot who are both more than capable of footing it with the best.
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Thoughts on Fusitua in the squad. Heard he might be a Smokey.
@chchfanatic Not bad, but I'd prefer Ollie Norris as the third loosehead.
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Thoughts on Fusitua in the squad. Heard he might be a Smokey.
@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2025:
Thoughts on Fusitua in the squad. Heard he might be a Smokey.
Interesting. I thought he may be a year or two off being considered despite having a massive breakout season. Real workhorse prop around the park and there hasn't been an issue with his scrummaging but yeah, wasn't expecting him to be in the frame this quickly.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
From what I've seen the Saffas are basically using heavy rotation of their starting line up to keep players fresh. Their players often get rotated at the 35 to 50 mark compared to ours at 60 - 70. The use of our bench was often poor last year. The mindset is completely different.
This nullifies completly the whole "run them off their feet" gameplan which we still persist with and we haven't got a plan B in the back pocket to counter this. It's tactically brilliant (albiet with calculated risk should 2 backs get injured) that we haven't got an answer for.
In short the AB's need to find a way to make space on the field that doesn't rely on players being out of position due to fatigue because when you can basically sub on a whole new forward pack no-one is fatigued.
This isn't the thread for it but I really dislike the rules around the use of the bench in modern footy, allowing teams to substitute an almost entirely new forward packs on for the second 40. It's completely removed one of the most challenging parts of the game - executing your skills in the final 10 minutes when the lungs are burning and the legs feel like jelly to get the win.
Me too, but you can't change the rules you can only change how you play.
You can pick like for like and play them at their own game.
You can try something as simple as targeting players you know won't be subbed. Run our guys at their backs all day, then sub our guys who are running at their backs, and run at them some more.What we did, is not sub until about 70 minutes and pick a specialist winger on the bench. Fuck. Off.
@reprobate and sub SP on at the 79 minute mark
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Thoughts on Fusitua in the squad. Heard he might be a Smokey.
@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2025:
Thoughts on Fusitua in the squad. Heard he might be a Smokey.
He got named Blues player of the year. Whilst that might say more about the Blues season than anything else he has really come on the last couple of years.
He only just turned 24 so plenty of rugby ahead for him.
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@reprobate and sub SP on at the 79 minute mark
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate and sub SP on at the 79 minute mark
So stupid. If there's a chance you don't use a player on the bench depending on the game situation, just communicate it to them in advance with the reasons. Don't leave them hanging and then bring them on in some shit token gesture to pretend they're part of the game.
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@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2025:
Thoughts on Fusitua in the squad. Heard he might be a Smokey.
Interesting. I thought he may be a year or two off being considered despite having a massive breakout season. Real workhorse prop around the park and there hasn't been an issue with his scrummaging but yeah, wasn't expecting him to be in the frame this quickly.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2025:
Thoughts on Fusitua in the squad. Heard he might be a Smokey.
Interesting. I thought he may be a year or two off being considered despite having a massive breakout season. Real workhorse prop around the park and there hasn't been an issue with his scrummaging but yeah, wasn't expecting him to be in the frame this quickly.
Solid in the scrum and improving, decent carrier & very high work rate. More active at cleaning out rucks than other NZ props.
For what its worth, George predicted this
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2025:
Thoughts on Fusitua in the squad. Heard he might be a Smokey.
Interesting. I thought he may be a year or two off being considered despite having a massive breakout season. Real workhorse prop around the park and there hasn't been an issue with his scrummaging but yeah, wasn't expecting him to be in the frame this quickly.
Solid in the scrum and improving, decent carrier & very high work rate. More active at cleaning out rucks than other NZ props.
For what its worth, George predicted this
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2025:
Thoughts on Fusitua in the squad. Heard he might be a Smokey.
Interesting. I thought he may be a year or two off being considered despite having a massive breakout season. Real workhorse prop around the park and there hasn't been an issue with his scrummaging but yeah, wasn't expecting him to be in the frame this quickly.
Solid in the scrum and improving, decent carrier & very high work rate. More active at cleaning out rucks than other NZ props.
For what its worth, George predicted this
Yes he did.
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He's always had a good workrate. His scrum upside wouldn't appear to be as high as the other options but he has become more solid in this area.
I think he's become more accurate overall. As a bench prop I think Ollie Norris is better suited and he has the extra size.
